WHOA! 700 new apts coming to det. UA THEATER, Fort wayne, eddystone reno's among them

[Zads07]

I SINCERELY hope this is Fake News.

These two buildings look like very good candidates to be rehabbed.

The op on the link is a very reliable source of information and he wouldn't just post all willy-nilly. Start calling Detroit government to tell them to stop this.

[emu steve]

The op on the link is a very reliable source of information and he wouldn't just post all willy-nilly. Start calling Detroit government to tell them to stop this.

Okay. We'll see.

The only reason I could see why Ilitch org not rehabbing them is that there presumably aren't tax credits, etc. but for parking lots????

I see only THREE options:

1). Rehab the buildings

2). Tear them down and go parking. But why with all the surface parking behind the Fox??? Maybe a parking garage, but why???

3). Build something BIG there [[but what????). That is not a prime site for an office building, hotel, etc.

Rehab housing seems the best usage, to me.

If it is #2, then there has to be something which we don't know going on. E.g., sell land behind the Fox to someone who wants to do something with it [[other than parking)?????

There is only a finite need to more parking. Don't want supply to exceed demand.

[Gistok]

Here's a view of the 2 buildings [[the smaller one is hidden by a tree). This is on Cass Ave. looking south towards I-75 Fisher. The block they are on is already high density. Very attractive buildings. If they tear them down, then the next generation of Ilitch's has learned nothing about historic preservation.... ... except for their love affair for parking lots!

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3392...7i13312!8i6656

[Zads07]

Based on the history of Olympia has shown they don't care about historic buildings, they want more parking to bring in more people to their venues. That's the only reason they need. Holding onto the buildings does nothing for them. Notice the buildings in the thread aren't going to be rehabbed by them. The only building they've ever rehabbed was the Fox Theatre. Everything else was torn down or boarded up. There's a pattern and it hasn't changed.

[emu steve]

Taking a view from Google Maps:

It seems the Ilitch org control all of the west side of Cass from Temple to the Fisher.

I believe there are what about a half dozen buildings spanning three blocks. Correct?

I would have NO idea what they would plan for all those blocks.

[bust]

Taking a view from Google Maps:

It seems the Ilitch org control all of the west side of Cass from Temple to the Fisher.

I believe there are what about a half dozen buildings spanning three blocks. Correct?

I would have NO idea what they would plan for all those blocks.

The second to last thing that area needs is another stadium.
The last thing it needs is more surface parking.

[southen]

Given the announcement and information that has come out in the last week I feel I was a bit too kind in my Ilitch cheerleading. They will not be the ones developing the new housing and if this latest bit of new is true it shows you that they are back to doing what they always do which is demolish and neglect the neighborhoods in which their buildings inhabit.

Glad to see that EMUSteve is a skeptic of this demolition news. When it happens maybe he can pipe down on the cheerleading for at least a week or two.

[emu steve]

Given the announcement and information that has come out in the last week I feel I was a bit too kind in my Ilitch cheerleading. They will not be the ones developing the new housing and if this latest bit of new is true it shows you that they are back to doing what they always do which is demolish and neglect the neighborhoods in which their buildings inhabit.

Glad to see that EMUSteve is a skeptic of this demolition news. When it happens maybe he can pipe down on the cheerleading for at least a week or two.

I guess you and I are two of the biggest knee jerk posters in the history of this forum [[RE: Ilitch organization).

I will say this, I don't think I have been wrong yet on an Ilitch prediction [[although in all due regard I haven't been posting for more than say 5 years).

Lest I repeat:

LCA - almost done.

Parking garages w. attached housing [[in progress).

WSU's Ilitch School of Business [[in progress).

Eddystone - plans announced.

Hotel American and Alhambra - plans announced.

LC headquarters - in progress.

Parking garage next to Comerica - in progress.

I am not aware of any public District Detroit plans which have been announced have been announced or believed to be canceled.

So far the Ilitch orgs work on District Detroit has been very impressive. They have accomplished a lot in a relatively short period of time.

[southen]

I am not aware of any public District Detroit plans which have been announced have been announced or believed to be canceled.

So far the Ilitch orgs work on District Detroit has been very impressive. They have accomplished a lot in a relatively short period of time.

This is what gets me every single time with you. You act as if the only thing that is relevant with this organization is their track record from the second they announced the arena. That isn't how the real world works. No wonder you would be 'shocked' if they tore down those two completely usable buildings, you fail to even consider what they have been doing for decades.

Also, can you stop attributing the redevelopment of the Eddystone, UA, American and Alhambra to the Ilitchs? They aren't the ones redeveloping the properties, they found other companies to tackle those tasks. They have however constructed some fantastic surface parking and apparently want to tear down more of our history, you know, like they always have done.

They have great PR though. Very few people could get away with decades of neglect while sucking at public teet and still be able to convince people they are great stewards of the city and it's history.

[Rock N Rye]

The demolition of the Park Ave Hotel was completely pointless for the arena development. The site is now an empty space between the parking garage and future Budweiser beer tent.

[emu steve]

Sure. I discussed District Detroit, the QLine, Brush Park.

Never discussed anything which happened decades ago with the possible exception of Comerica Park, but that was retrospective [[and only the design of the stadium. I give it medium grades).

As far as UA, Eddystone and the other buildings, I can GUARANTEE you that nothing would happen if LCA had not come to town.

I remember in 2006 [[?) parking at Woodward/Sproat and seeing signage that the building next to the Eddystone was 'going condo' for a cool $190K [[each, not the entire building ), in an area which charitably could be described as 'forlorn.'

I'm sure Trump didn't look at Angela Merkel and remind her of Germany's past.

The past is the past and nations, cities, and people move on...

[southen]

Sure. I discussed District Detroit, the QLine, Brush Park.

Never discussed anything which happened decades ago with the possible exception of Comerica Park, but that was retrospective [[and only the design of the stadium. I give it medium grades).

As far as UA, Eddystone and the other buildings, I can GUARANTEE you that nothing would happen if LCA had not come to town.

I remember in 2006 [[?) parking at Woodward/Sproat and seeing signage that the building next to the Eddystone was 'going condo' for a cool $190K [[each, not the entire building ), in an area which charitably could be described as 'forlorn.'

I'm sure Trump didn't look at Angela Merkel and remind her of Germany's past.

The past is the past and nations, cities, and people move on...

Oh you guarantee it? More garbage. Ilitch had control of the GAR Building for years and nothing happened with it. The second ownership reverted back to the city it was sold and redevelopment by a developer of considerably less means commenced almost immediately. That in turn made DTE's "2nd Campus Martius" that much more appealing as there were now restaurants and businesses in the immediate area.

Your Germany comparison is laughable. You are right, comparing Merkel to Germany's Nazi past would not make sense. You really went out on a limb there. What we are talking about is the same family who has been "developing" Detroit in the same manner for decades. How convenient it must be to ignore the broken promises made just in the last decade because it doesn't suit your 'savior' narrative.

[emu steve]

BTW, you [[and others) are personalizing it.

I did not come here specifically to praise Mike Ilitch or the Ilitch organization.

I came here cheerleading what is happening in that area of Midtown. I would feel the same if Gilbert, not Ilitch, was behind it. I have been cheer-leading for the QLine which is a collective effort of many.

It is impossible to discuss it without some reference to the Ilitch organization. Just like one can not separate what is happening in the CBD from Gilbert.

Their fingerprints and money are all over each.

[southen]

Could it be that your constant cheerleading of them while willfully ignoring their past and relevant development history is rubbing people the wrong way? You are actually refusing to consider what they have done in this city and simply tout them as great developers for this taxpayer propped up arena. They can't even redevelop their own historic buildings, they are allowing other companies to do it, but that won't stop you from adding it to their 'win' column.

[emu steve]

It's in the city's win column.

It has ALWAYS been understood that the Ilitch organization would build/redevelop X number of buildings, etc. and that other developers would /build/redevelop others.

When we get into 'score keeping' it has usually been in the context of whether or not the Ilitch organization is spending enough money to meet their obligations to the city.

Otherwise, no one gets a s*it if the Ilitches or Wayne State is responsible for building the school of business building. Or who is redeveloping buildings that we didn't know the Ilitches controlled [[e.g., Alhambra Apts, Hotel American).

[ABetterDetroit]

Ilitch plans on demolishing these two buildings on Cass Ave. for surface parking. Built in 194, I don't think this needs much discussion in how crappy Ilitch is and nothing has changed from father to son.

Save the two buildings.

https://www.facebook.com/mark.hall.1...71406232924250

Attachment 33495

Attachment 33496

Very disappointing if these rumors are facts. I hope they are not.

It would be indicative of zero changes in standard operating procedure in the family even in the light of what has happened in the core over the last 6 years since Gilbert came to Detroit if they are true.

[southen]

It's in the city's win column.

It has ALWAYS been understood that the Ilitch organization would build/redevelop X number of buildings, etc. and that other developers would /build/redevelop others.

When we get into 'score keeping' it has usually been in the context of whether or not the Ilitch organization is spending enough money to meet their obligations to the city.

Otherwise, no one gets a s*it if the Ilitches or Wayne State is responsible for building the school of business building. Or who is redeveloping buildings that we didn't know the Ilitches controlled [[e.g., Alhambra Apts, Hotel American).

It isn't a win-win for the city if in fact the Ilitch family has NOT changed their practices. These historic buildings being redeveloped will be an anomaly for good press and with other's actually taking on the burden of restoration. If they continue to tear down buildings that can be saved and making landscaped parking lots as they have the city continues to lose. All one has to do is look at the Madison-Lenox parking lot to see what happens to these parcels after they pave them... nothing.

Also given that I actually pay taxes in the city I do give a sh*t who does what with what property since the Ilitchs love to take taxpayer dollars and break promises made when they get those dollars. You get to play sim city from DC, I actually live here and care how the actions of this family effect the day to day life in Detroit.

[emu steve]

Tigers.com got their hitting shoes on tonight.

[Gistok]

I have to agree with Southen on this one.... just look at the Blenheim Apartments and Life Building on Park Avenue behind the new Little Caesars HQ and the Fox Theatre Building. All they have done for 2 decades is stunt the development of the Park Avenue entertainment district.

I'm almost waiting for them to say that the Blenheim needs to go in order for them to build loading docks to the new Little Caesars HQ.

The lack of any development plan should be of no surprise to why they did nothing with the GAR Building when they owned it. Before they develop any new buildings between Comerica Park and the Fox... they need to do something with these two buildings. They are a constant reminder of the lack of preservation interest by the Ilitch's.

[emu steve]

I think I'm going to post in the Tigers' thread.

Tigers home and ready for a good June.

[Atticus]

It is really simple. In a few months when LCA opens, some event patrons will park in the new attached ramps, while others will choose to park in the surface lots behind the Fox. For the latter group, their walk to the arena involves crossing I-75 using the Clifford Bridge, and then walking past these abandon structures.

Seeing the abandoned structures will make a certain group of people feel unsafe, and perpetuate the concept that Downtown is a dangerous place and has not turned the corner. This sheltered group may even be reluctant to return to the arena and spend their money on events because of perceived safety reasons.

Thus from Olympia's standpoint, walking past surface lots are better than walking past these abandoned structures. Surface lots do not create feelings of fear. Yes, rehabbed buildings don't either, but there probably weren't easily available tax credits to make these redevelopments a low hanging fruit. So they are going lazy, and looking into the demo route.

As much as attitudes have changed about downtown, sadly the argument I posted above still carries a lot of weight. Oppose the demo and make your opposition known, or these buildings will become another Madison-Lenox.

[Gistok]

It is really simple. In a few months when LCA opens, some event patrons will park in the new attached ramps, while others will choose to park in the surface lots behind the Fox. For the latter group, their walk to the arena involves crossing I-75 using the Clifford Bridge, and then walking past these abandon structures.


As much as attitudes have changed about downtown, sadly the argument I posted above still carries a lot of weight. Oppose the demo and make your opposition known, or these buildings will become another Madison-Lenox.

Atticus? Didn't you just read the thead I just posted? The 2 abandoned Life and Blenheim buildings were there for 18 years, and I hardly think they were scaring the bejesus out of Comerica Park visitors who parked behind the Fox. Ditto for the United Artists Building, the Fine Arts Building and Adams Theatre Auditorium.

Suburbanites have to drive thru miles of abandonment along the route.... I hardly think 2 middling currently empty apartment buildings are going to scare them away!

And besides... they could slap some painted plywood over the open buildings. The Ilitch's have always had a brain fart when it came to securing buildings... just look at the United Artists, before the city made them secure the building.

[emu steve]

I'm with Gistok on his post.

There is a small block between Clifford and Cass and Fisher/Henry which acts as a 'buffer' between those buildings and the arena blocks. Are those buildings secure from vagrants?

Now, to go back to Atticus's comments. Isn't there drug treatment center[[s), etc. in the area of Cass/Ledyard?

Did the Ilitches buy up property there to change the neighborhood? As I suggested previously, the Iltich org probably owns almost everything along [[west side) Cass from Temple to the Fisher.

So rather than 'surface parking' how about trying to remove the remnants of the 'Cass Corridor'??

[Atticus]

Atticus? Didn't you just read the thead I just posted? The 2 abandoned Life and Blenheim buildings were there for 18 years, and I hardly think they were scaring the bejesus out of Comerica Park visitors who parked behind the Fox. Ditto for the United Artists Building, the Fine Arts Building and Adams Theatre Auditorium.

Suburbanites have to drive thru miles of abandonment along the route.... I hardly think 2 middling currently empty apartment buildings are going to scare them away!

And besides... they could slap some painted plywood over the open buildings. The Ilitch's have always had a brain fart when it came to securing buildings... just look at the United Artists, before the city made them secure the building.

Gistok-
I respect your point, but think it is different now. When CoPa opened in 2000, there were dozens of empty structures between the stadium and the parking lots. It was a fact of life then that if you drove in from the suburbs, parked, and walked to CoPa, you were going to walk by empty structures. Olympia tore down what they could, but there were so many that even if George Jackson was driving the dozer himself, they couldn't remove them all... so it was just accepted as an unfortunate fact of life at the time. The number was just too big to tear them all down 15 years ago, so they removed what they could.

Fast forward to 2017. There are still some empty structures, but significantly fewer in the "district" that are still empty and not in the process of being renovated. And because that number is so small, Olympia can control what happens to most of the remaining empty structures. So now, it is a manageable task in 2017, whereas in 2000 it was a fact of life.

Also working against things is the idea that downtown has now turned the corner, which means abandonment is gone or going away. Leaving an empty structure up that won't be fixed in the near future works against that narrative, so to Olympia, these structures on Cass must go.

This is why they are rehabbing the Hotel Fort Wayne and others now, before adding the residential along the Cass side of their big garage. Money is limited, and better to address the empty structures along Temple and have a blank wall on Cass, then have new residential in front of the Cass garage and empty structures on Temple that your suite holders will drive by. The financial numbers also work out in the renovation's favor, but that is another discussion.

So sorry about the wordy response, but I really think getting rid of the empty structures on the "walk" between the surface lots and LCA is a big thing... and if they can't be renovated soon, down they must go in Olympia's eyes.

[Atticus]

I'm with Gistok on his post.

There is a small block between Clifford and Cass and Fisher/Henry which acts as a 'buffer' between those buildings and the arena blocks. Are those buildings secure from vagrants?

Now, to go back to Atticus's comments. Isn't there drug treatment center[[s), etc. in the area of Cass/Ledyard?

Did the Ilitches buy up property there to change the neighborhood? As I suggested previously, the Iltich org probably owns almost everything along [[west side) Cass from Temple to the Fisher.

So rather than 'surface parking' how about trying to remove the remnants of the 'Cass Corridor'??

Steve-
I would guess relocating the drug treatment center is a much easier and cheaper task. Olympia can make a tax write off "donation" to the center, that basically funds them moving farther away into a better facility.

Most facilities like that are all hurting for funding anyway, so they would be more than happy to take in a nice donation from Olympia and move into a bigger building, even if that means moving a few blocks away. Due to the potential political sensitive nature of economic/social justice, the donation was probably made with the request that it not be made public.

In short, I am sure it will be moved, and I would also be surprised if anyone hears about it in one of the media outlets.