WHOA! 700 new apts coming to det. UA THEATER, Fort wayne, eddystone reno's among them

[detroitbob]

The theater seen to the lower left appears in good shape both exterior and roof.
Attachment 33457

The roof of the theatre portion has been replaced and the theatre has been cleaned out of the debris from the damaged plaster, etc. Heat and utilities work. A few years ago contractors submitted estimates for restoration and I understand the restoration of the Los Angeles United Artist's Theatre was also investigated [[3 close to identical theatres were designed by Crane's firm, Chicago is now demolished). The problem with the Detroit theatre is the stage configuration...Clifford Street swings to the north causing the angled backstage making it virtually useless for any real theatrical productions. The only real live entertainment the UA ever presented was orchestra accompaniment to silent films and the Wurlitzer organ for solo and sing along presentations after talking pictures came into vogue and the orchestra was eliminated. The Los Angeles theatre has a working stage and is used as a ballroom and event space in addition to theatrical performances. Could the theatre be viable with its limitations?

Two pictures of the restored UA in Los Angeles follow:
and
The only major change to the LA UA was the removal of the loge or mezzanine when widescreen projection was introduced in the late 1950's. The original paint colors and decorative murals survived from what I understand as Mary Pickford would never allow a redecoration/painting due to some ongoing involvement with the property. The LA theatre was more elaborate in design and detail as it was the showcase for the United Artists pictures produced at the nearby studio and the involvement of Mary Pickford and Douglas Fairbanks.

[Gistok]

Here is the footprint of the United Artists Theatre Building. Interestingly enough the theatre portion takes up a larger part of the footprint of the complex. I wonder if [[like the former Michigan Theatre) the theatre and office portion are such that you cannot extract the theatre, without compromising the stability of the office tower.

I think that mothballing the theatre would not be bad. Detroit currently has an oversupply of venues in the theatre district. There is just not as much product [[road shows) as there used to be.

[Gistok]

The United Artists Building and Theatre in 1928.... including the procenium, the sidewalls, the Rotunda Lobby. The main entrance and theatre were about 60 degrees out of alignment, so a Rotunda Lobby took care of that difference in angles.

Also included is an image of the [[razed 1990s) former smaller Chicago United Artists... the 3rd of their 3 UA flagship theatres. The colors show how the interior of the Detroit UA was lighted. It [[Detroit UA) was known as the "Jewel Box" for this reason.

[emu steve]

So 'the day after' [[highlights as I've heard/read them):

1). Got the UA building. A surprise to most who didn't see it coming. Think historic tax credits involved.

2). Eddystone will get done. Put the debate about it getting done to bed. The renderings look really good. Everyone wins on this one. Historic tax credits might be partially responsible for work beginning in 2018, not 17.

3). The two buildings at the arena site are awesome and will have all of "today's amenities". Is this 'Millennial heaven?" I don't know. Maybe yes, maybe no. Definitely not a haven for seniors.

4). Hotel Americana to me has been a critical building because of its location next to the Masonic. Wings' goalies never had a bigger 'save' than this one. See comment above about historic tax credits.

5). The Alhambra was another must save and could be very popular based on its appearance and location, location, location [[one block from Woodward). Historic tax credits.

6). Temple [[the street) with these two renovations + 640 Temple and the promised work at Cass Park promise to jump start this street from Woodward to MC Casino. I believe the Ilitch org owns [[bought in recent years) the parking lots opposite the Masonic between Cass and Second.

7). Housing promised yesterday will be at most rent price points, starting at apparently $700. The promise is that tenants will not necessarily be the same tenants living in the proposed Hudson site residential building.

8). Might be a year or so away from an announcement, but plans for behind the Ilitch School of Business, maybe the hotel at Woodward/Henry, and hopefully the two blocks at Cass/Temple/Ledyard [[parking now) are biggies.

9). I'm not sure what I expect from the Ilitch School of Business. What will it lead to say behind it? Student apartments? More retail? Could 75 unit student apartments work? Does WSU school of business have enough out of state/country grad students? How to make it affordable?

Yesterday, was a big day, surprisingly big [[we knew 3 buildings but got 6).

Beside what might happen around Comerica Park, I think development along Temple will be the next big story... [[Most of the development around the LCA should be mostly finished by say 2019).

I think the 2020s will be "West of Cass/Along Temple". Could also be "North of Temple" but that would be by other folks [[other developers). Recently there was a story about 40 Davenport which is near.

[emu steve]

I'm borrowing this post from another thread to make a point:

New and rehab housing by the hundred[[s) of units say every three months. QLine in service.

Now is the time for developers/retailers to forecast or realize that Midtown is becoming a fairly well populated 'city' with residents of decent means and time for more things like basic grocery stores and suburban amenities, like a Krogers, Target, more CVS or other drug stores, etc. and a Dunkin Donuts.

And, of course, QLine makes it convenient for folks living anywhere from New Center to downtown to shop there.

**************

313WX

Join DateApr 2009Posts5,137

Originally Posted by stasu1213
We must remember before we get our hopes up too high. It's not official and the only reason the Gores is considering moving the Pistons downtown is from all of the pressure by the people and the NBA. He may opt out of the deal if he can. Gilbert or Illitch may have to end up buying the team from him and move the team downtown themselves. Gores never did have a heart to move the team downtown and typical of Detroit to not get the most important things in the city that would be a win win for the city. Mass Transit, jobs, a major retail store downtown or along Jefferson, a good national chain grocery store downtown, and the Pistons



I will say that downtown would have truly turned the corner when it can attract a basic grocery store like Kroger.

[ABetterDetroit]

Have to wonder if or when a plan to get around to doing something with the Fine Arts Building exist yet.

What is left of it is a mess on Grand Circus Park.

https://www.google.com/amp/detroit.c...ing-facadomy-1

[emu steve]

How about a fly in the ointment post?

What about parking for all of these new housing units? The renovations are to buildings built before the era of the privately owned vehicle.

I assume those living on the 'LCA campus' will use the parking garages.

How about Hotel American, Alhambra, UA, etc.????

[EGrant]

Any of those hotels and apartments can valet to one of the many Ilitch-owned lots [[or lots they could build a structure on). It's how most big cities operate, and they don't have the benefit of miles of beautiful, open gravel.

[Gistok]

UA parking? Take your pick.....
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Un...9!4d-83.052328

Hotel American parking....
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ma...!4d-83.0601714

Alhambra Apts... [[building in the middle casting the long shadow)....
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ma...!4d-83.0601714

[detroitbob]

Gistok, the 3 auditoriums were virtually identical in color palate and lighting. the LA theatre was the only one not to get a repaint job as I noted in my post although it did loose the mezzanine. The auditorium could have been demo'd back in the AAA days [[akin to the RKO Downtown/Oriental) with no compromise to the office building unlike the Michigan across the street where the stage house was actually under the Clifford Street office wing. I am surprised the AAA did not consider this option before jumping ship to Dearborn. The gentleman who managed the complex inherited by AAA [[and had been the building manager since
day one) loved the theatre and would not allow anything to be sold. Even the original drapes including the grand teaser and stage curtains were taken down, cleaned and bundled in canvas bags at the time of the repainting and Cinerama and stored in the never used dressing rooms. The organ was complete and intact save for the brass trumpet and saxophone ranks which were moved to another theatre during the United Detroit Theater lease days. Artwork, sculptures and furniture if not on display also stored away in locked basement and dressing rooms.

[emu steve]

UA parking? Take your pick.....
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Un...9!4d-83.052328

Hotel American parking....
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ma...!4d-83.0601714

Alhambra Apts... [[building in the middle casting the long shadow)....
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ma...!4d-83.0601714

How expensive?

Some of these rentals will be say $700 / month. How much will they pay for monthly parking?

BTW, who owns the parking Charlotte and Cass behind the Temple/American???

How much per month????

[Gistok]

detroitbob.... yeah that makes sense.

The UA got that paint job in the wide screen 70mm screen days... when part of the procenium arch was take out for a wider screen. The former Ashlar faux brickwork look to the sidewalls of the Detroit UA was painted white, as was virtually everything else... including the "Rajahstan" murals [[which in LA had the Mary Pickford murals).

Also at the Detroit UA, those hideous mustard colored curtains covering the fancy organ grilles, were finally removed during the cleanout of the auditorium.

Here we see the current mayhem of the auditorium.... what we don't see are the winged angels lining the inside of the ceiling dome... one of the few items of ornate plasterwork that the scavengers could not remove. Interestingly enough, only Detroit has those plaster angels.

The Detroit UA was different from the LA UA also by its' layout. The LA UA had a cathedral like grand lobby, while the Detroit UA had an outer lobby and a circular rotunda lobby... to offset the weird angle between the entrance facade and the auditorium.

Also the ornate plasterwork in the LA UA had more of a "cave Gothic" look... with the organ grilles and ornate plaster almost looking like stalagtites hanging down from the sidewalls. The Detroit UA had a more crisp Spanish Gothic look, but with those art deco Indian Maiden busts.

[Rock N Rye]

So 'the day after' [[highlights as I've heard/read them):

1). Got the UA building. A surprise to most who didn't see it coming. Think historic tax credits involved.

2). Eddystone will get done. Put the debate about it getting done to bed. The renderings look really good. Everyone wins on this one. Historic tax credits might be partially responsible for work beginning in 2018, not 17.

3). The two buildings at the arena site are awesome and will have all of "today's amenities". Is this 'Millennial heaven?" I don't know. Maybe yes, maybe no. Definitely not a haven for seniors.

4). Hotel Americana to me has been a critical building because of its location next to the Masonic. Wings' goalies never had a bigger 'save' than this one. See comment above about historic tax credits.

5). The Alhambra was another must save and could be very popular based on its appearance and location, location, location [[one block from Woodward). Historic tax credits.

6). Temple [[the street) with these two renovations + 640 Temple and the promised work at Cass Park promise to jump start this street from Woodward to MC Casino. I believe the Ilitch org owns [[bought in recent years) the parking lots opposite the Masonic between Cass and Second.

7). Housing promised yesterday will be at most rent price points, starting at apparently $700. The promise is that tenants will not necessarily be the same tenants living in the proposed Hudson site residential building.

8). Might be a year or so away from an announcement, but plans for behind the Ilitch School of Business, maybe the hotel at Woodward/Henry, and hopefully the two blocks at Cass/Temple/Ledyard [[parking now) are biggies.

9). I'm not sure what I expect from the Ilitch School of Business. What will it lead to say behind it? Student apartments? More retail? Could 75 unit student apartments work? Does WSU school of business have enough out of state/country grad students? How to make it affordable?

Yesterday, was a big day, surprisingly big [[we knew 3 buildings but got 6).

Beside what might happen around Comerica Park, I think development along Temple will be the next big story... [[Most of the development around the LCA should be mostly finished by say 2019).

I think the 2020s will be "West of Cass/Along Temple". Could also be "North of Temple" but that would be by other folks [[other developers). Recently there was a story about 40 Davenport which is near.

There was a rumor a couple years ago that the Ilitchs wanted to redo Cass Park and expand it east to Cass Ave. Would have the entire Masonic Temple and Hotel Americana facing the park instead of the parking lots. Not sure if this is still in their plans.

[Gistok]

For all the grousing I've done about the Ilitch's, they have done a lot of good. One thing in particular was the Masonic Temple. Mr. Ilitch paid their electric bill, when it was pending shutoff. He did help them out when they were almost to the point of closing, and the remaining lodges moved to the burbs. He also took over booking for the Masonic [[Olympia Entertainment). Not really sure why that ended... but I imagine it was difficult to keep the 2 largest performance venues [[5,174 seat Fox and 4,404 seat Masonic) booked when there is a nationwide lack of traveling shows and entertainments.

With the Arena area ready to take off... and the Hotel Americana being restored... it will nicely tie them together. That north wall of Temple St. is one of the most magnificent in Detroit. Glad that it will have good company!

[emu steve]

Indeed. Wasn't the Masonic in deep trouble over unpaid taxes and someone [[anonymously?) paid them.

I don't know if cats have 9 lives, and I don't know how many lives the Masonic has had.

[Gistok]

Indeed. Wasn't the Masonic in deep trouble over unpaid taxes and someone [[anonymously?) paid them.

I don't know if cats have 9 lives, and I don't know how many lives the Masonic has had.

Yup.... Jack White..... another Masonic savior....

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/ne...osure-20130604

[Atticus]

This is a very good announcement, and I am very happy to see this residential come on board over the next few years.

The only thing I found noticibly absent was that the proposed residential fronting the Cass/Clifford merge was not included. I am referring to the proposed residential intended to line the west wall of the arena's giant parking garage. It just seems odd that they didn't complete the arena super block by including that residential in this announcement as well.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Atticus, I'm not worried about that. I think there are still a lot of announcements to come [[although most won't be as big).

[CrashDummy]

I really wish they were doing a full historic restoration to the United Artists building. They are simply removing the 60's modifications and adding a more modern look instead of fully restoring it. That is just being lazy. It also appears that they will be blocking off the entrance to the theater so I am guessing they are either mothballing it or tearing it down for something like parking.

Speaking of the UA building, this is simply referred to as 150 Bagley in the announcement. Was there ever any other name for the office building?

I agree that the renderings look very unexciting. Other then a powerwash and removing that sweet 60's canopy, there really isn't much else. There is certainly much less going on here than the other renderings. I'm wondering if this has to do with this being another developer than the other projects, or maybe the design is less mature. Either way, it's fine at this point. I wasn't expecting an announcement on this for probably a couple more years. I can't quite see the full vision for the west side of Grand Circus Park, but perhaps it may bode well for the Tuller and Fine Arts sites, and maybe [[hopefully?) the Park Avenue Building.

I wouldn't read too much into the fact that the entrance to the theatre is blocked off in the rendering. It looks like the theatre was just totally ignored in this proposal, as this development is strictly for the residential aspect, and the developer probably doesn't have any experience in restoring theatres. If they were demolishing it, it seems like they would at least incorporate the lobby portion in some constructive way instead of just blocking it off. Besides, the theatre is still shown behind the building in the rendering, but I don't put too much into that, either.

As far as restoring the theatre, are there any companies that specialize in restoring entire venues like that, or would they need to hire specialists to restore each individual aspect?

[Jason]

My impression of the renderings is that they're just "conceptual" or "preliminary". Basically they wanted some eyecandy to go with the press releases. We'll have to wait and see what they'll really do.

[Gistok]

CrashDummy,

I believe that originally the building was called UA Building, and later known by either Exchange Building or Currency Exchange Building... The_Rock would know.

But at some point AAA had their HQ in the Building, and it was known as the AAA Building, IIRC... Of course AAA moved out to Dearborn in 1974 or 1975... and the building became empty. The theatre closed at the same time I believe.

As to theatre restorationists... Ray Shepherdson, the theatre restoration consultant who did Cleveland's Playhouse Square and the Detroit Opera House, has passed away. But there is Conrad Schmitt Studio's, who show 28 large theatre restorations on their portfolio page....

http://www.conradschmitt.com/portfol....Y=20&TYPEID=3

[Gistok]

My impression of the renderings is that they're just "conceptual" or "preliminary". Basically they wanted some eyecandy to go with the press releases. We'll have to wait and see what they'll really do.

Yeah I agree. If they want historic tax credits, they will likely have to do more than that image shows. The David Whitney Building did get historic tax credits by bringing the building back to some semblence of its' original look.

[Atticus]

I would guess the reason they are not calling it the "United Artists Building" is simply because they don't want to highlight the fact that noting is being done to the theater. They aren't sure what to do with the theater, at least publicly any way. They said as much in the presser that the theater wasn't included in this renovation, and since it isn't getting done now, why highlight that fact? It is much better P.R. to just call it 150 Bagley, and get the props for renovating an old building and adding residential to the city, and hope the theater part gets forgotten.

It will be very interesting to see what ends up happening over time to the theater portion though...

[Zads07]

Ilitch plans on demolishing these two buildings on Cass Ave. for surface parking. Built in 194, I don't think this needs much discussion in how crappy Ilitch is and nothing has changed from father to son.

Save the two buildings.

https://www.facebook.com/mark.hall.1...71406232924250

[emu steve]

I SINCERELY hope this is Fake News.

These two buildings look like very good candidates to be rehabbed.

My gut reaction is that the Ilitch org does NOT want surface parking there.

I believe there is enough parking south of Fisher [[plus new garages), which the Ilitch org owns.

Do remember that Little Caesars Arena will hold 20K and yes that means more vehicles, but the Ilitch org has built garages next to Comerica plus the ones next to LCA.

Wasn't there plans to build a parking garage at Clifford/W. Montcalm??

Plus there is surface parking on Cass/2nd from Temple to Ledyard.

Count me skeptical.