What "industry" will put Detroit back on the map ?

[SammyS]

Where's the demand going to come from for the real estate these investors pour their money into?

Have you seen the level of appreciation in select parts of Detroit? Compare that to the shitty returns the suburbs have been seeing for the past decade or so.

[313WX]

Have you seen the level of appreciation in select parts of Detroit?

In all fairness, when you're at rock bottom, there's nowhere else to go but up.

That said, you're still missing my point.

The reason there's so much real estate investment ongoing in other places is because they're rapidly growing. Detroit, on the other hand is not.

So what would RE investors, who want to seek the maximum return possible on their money spent, get out of pouring money into Detroit versus these other rapidly growing cities?

The below thread really gets into the nitty gritty of what you're suggesting. One poster in particular does a thorough job of explaining why RE investors are hesitant to touch Detroit, versus places like Miami or Phoenix...

"The industrial areas of Michigan have been in a 50 year decline, losing jobs, income and population. Detroit went from a city of 1,500,000 to a city of 600,000. In 2007 - 2008 the severe price declines hit even the upscale suburban areas. Friends of mine whose house was valued at $1.8 million in 2004 [[in Bloomfield Hills) ended up shorting selling it for $390,000 in 2011. Another friend bought a house in Southfield for 300,000, put $90,000 into renovations and sold it for $140,000.

While other areas [[Las Vegas, Miami, Phoenix) had severe price declines, that as after insane price appreciation, which Michigan did not have.

Just as prices get out of wack high to where there is no cash flow when investors anticipate high appreciation, the flip side is also true. Prices got out of wack low in Detroit and some other Michigan cities to where cash flow is extrodanary high, because investors anticipate continued price deterioration. Many investors have taken advantage of this potential opportunity. Whether Detriot and other Michigan cities will begin a permanent recovery, stabilize, or continue the 50 year decline is not yet known. A major negative is that when you strip away the industrial era attributes like water transportation, hydro electric power, relative cool summers [[ an industrial neccessity before air conditioning), a semi skilled work force, and the advantages of having a geographically concentrated industry, you are left with a city with a high level of poverty, a low level of education, a corrupt and ineffective government and very bad weather. Not a pretty picture. I havent heard of anybody living in Phoenix moving to Detroit for retirement."

[ABetterDetroit]

Building and Real Estate. Think I'm nuts? Take a look at Toronto, Vancouver, California, the Carolinas and most of Australia. Once momentum builds, which it has, it's hard to slow that train down

No your not nuts.

Real estate is the key that opens all the other ideas at once and gives them a chance.

What we have going on is a disaster that cannot compete waiting for a day or one industry that will never come because if you build anything with large capital without a abatement you would be buried in tax. We have to get out of the picking the winners and losers corruption. [[It is way to slow even if one liked it) Level the whole field and fire up the construction industry to build new businesses. Then there will be jobs.

Money follows the path of least resistance always.

[O3H]

Having a bunch of empty buildings waiting for something to occupy them
-- isn't exactly a strategy, it's a pipedream built on hope and wishes.

Construction for what WIDGET how where and why ?
People want things cheap, and the USA learned other countries do it well.
I like the idea of KickStarter campaigns, which weeds out bad ideas.

[SammyS]

^^
I believe occupancy rates are hitting >90% downtown. Many in what were once abandoned buildings. Does this suggest there was pent up demand that insentivised developers to reno them?

[stasu1213]

I really feel that if Detroit could not try to be a metropolis bus instead have many small companies and industries and let the neighborhoods stay affordable for the average working person whether blue collar or white collar Detroit could be a unique sought after place to live. The main arteries of Detroit could be lined with a mixture of industries or companies, retail, and art or recreation. It's true that gentrification will happen as whats happening around the country. It doesn't mean that the cost of living has to go up in the neighborhoods driving those people whether senior citizen or working out of the neighborhoods. They should be able to stay with the newbies. Let downtown be the only expensive place to live but let the neighborhoods be affordable

[Vitalis]

Metropolitan Detroit needs to "steal" industries from other parts of the country, now that the climate is turning California into a pile of cinders, and the rising Atlantic ocean must have those along the east coast wondering about their futures. Will Detroit and Michigan have time to solve the myriad of social ills, infrastructure needs, and the general business climate before the exodus on both coasts? Let's hope so. And then let the wooing commence!

[SammyS]

Metropolitan Detroit needs to "steal" industries from other parts of the country, now that the climate is turning California into a pile of cinders, and the rising Atlantic ocean must have those along the east coast wondering about their futures. Will Detroit and Michigan have time to solve the myriad of social ills, infrastructure needs, and the general business climate before the exodus on both coasts? Let's hope so. And then let the wooing commence!

Right on. Detroit needs to break away from playing the SJW victimization card and start to become as competitive as the southern states that have been eating our lunch for decades. Promote more capitalism and that will solve all our problems.

[313WX]

The only way Detroit can "steal" industries is by playing the incentive game and getting into bidding wars, like states such as Texas do.

It really doesn't have much else going for it in terms of merit / quality of life that will convince companies outside of Michigan to consider it for expansion / relocations versus other places.

[Meddle]

The only way Detroit can "steal" industries is by ...

... finding a way to build a giant dome to keep the snow and bitter cold away. Folks may not like the furnace heat of SoCal, but they won't move from there to a snow fortress either. Consider why places like Phoenix, Tucson, Reno, Vegas and others with Hell-like heat, high electric rates and no water of their own are booming.

[O3H]

C'mon let's be truthful here. It snows a bit from time to time.
We shovel a few times a year, and the rest of the time we enjoy 3 seasons.

If we incentivise anymore than we already do, the tax base will crumble.
We need to continue to work on the crime, the corruption, the arson, etc.
When the media at large [[across the nation) sees Detroit in a good light,
industry is more apt to put a division in the area. We have to wait a bit.

[313WX]

... finding a way to build a giant dome to keep the snow and bitter cold away.

That doesn't seem to be hurting Toronto, NYC, Boston, Minneapolis, etc.

[O3H]

I wish more of those open lots would be able to get ""quickie buildings""
and a business loan to get something up and running for a good price.

https://www.whirlwindsteel.com/hubfs...=1533093597443

Widgets, whatcha ma call its, doo dads, it really doesn't matter,
but having a space to produce them, secure, and a house number to list on a yellow pages advertisement, google search etc. is the key.

[oladub]

Were we to have a succession of Republican and Democratic Party governments committed to taxing with tariffs instead of income taxes, a number of manufacturing possibilities including expanding domestic auto and truck production, building light rail rolling stock, and battery EV busses and trucks could make use of local manufacturing expertise. The likes of the GM Tech Center would have expand as a narrowly focused transportation and manufacturing Silicon Valley like hub.

[stasu1213]

City leaders may not be repeating the mistakes that othe cities had made one their climb back up but city leaders or making mistakes of making it hard for national businesses to open an office inside of Detroit or national retail to set up shop inside the city limits. Google is having a hard time opening downtown. Their target opening date was back in March or April but like Detroit fashion to put red tape in front of this development. There were other businesses that were to open in Detroit but changed their minds due to not enough floors needed for their merchandises, the landlord changed the lease that was already signed such had happened to Planet Fitness, or the city does not do anything to make itself more appealing to potential businessses. Fixing up a 3 mile radius doesn't make the city look appealing to businesses such as Amazon, United States Army, and other businesses sought after to set up headquarters inside the city. City leaders need to stop putting roadblocks and red tape in the way of nationally known businesses and retail that want to open an office or store in Detroit. Detroit need to do something about it's school systems. have stricter ordinances to the neighborhoods including police protection and community watch clubs. Good quality grocery stores and other community serving amenities need to line the strips such as Gratiot, Grand River, Jefferson, Livernois, and the mile rds so that the residents living in the communities where these streets run through would not have to come outside their communities to buy the basic needs. The cost of living doesnt have to increase once these communities are restored. This will make Detroit appealing to many industries and companies that they would consider this city for their employees to live

[313WX]

Detroit loses yet another corporate expansion / relocation, this time a logistics firm with some ties to Amazon...

Billion-dollar trucking startup Convoy to open first office outside of Seattle


https://www.geekwire.com/2018/billio...tside-seattle/

Atlanta is on the short list for Amazon HQ2. But the Georgia capital has already landed the east coast hub of another fast-growing Seattle tech company.


Trucking startup Convoy today announced that it picked Atlanta for the first office outside of its Seattle headquarters. The company plans to hire hundreds of employees at the new office to support its on-demand Uber-like technology platform that matches trucking companies and shippers. It will be staffed by operations, support, and account management teams that can better serve customers on east coast time.


Convoy considered 25 other cities across the U.S., but Atlanta beat out other final candidates Cincinnati and Detroit.


Atlanta is one of the leading centers for supply chain. Corporations such as UPS, Delta, Home Depot, and Westrock are also based there. The city is also among the 20 finalists for Amazon’s second headquarters, which will reportedly be announced soon.


Two former Amazon employees started Convoy in 2015. The company last month raised a massive $185 million investment round led by Alphabet’s venture capital arm that pushed its valuation over $1 billion, joining a select group of “unicorns” in the Seattle region.


Convoy and its investors — which include Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos — see huge opportunity in the U.S. trucking industry, a market valued at $700 billion according to the American Trucking Association, which forecasts 3.4 percent in annual growth of freight volume until 2023.

[Honky Tonk]

Detroit loses yet another corporate expansion / relocation, this time a logistics firm with some ties to Amazon...

Billion-dollar trucking startup Convoy to open first office outside of Seattle


https://www.geekwire.com/2018/billio...tside-seattle/

Yeah, but we're getting the tallest building on the planet with the tallest antennae.

[401don]

Detroit loses yet another corporate expansion / relocation, this time a logistics firm with some ties to Amazon...

Billion-dollar trucking startup Convoy to open first office outside of Seattle


https://www.geekwire.com/2018/billio...tside-seattle/

Good luck to the drivers. Closest thing to hell on earth is driving in, through or around Atlanta. Another 100,000 trucks should help.

[Richard]

I am not seeing how it is a loss to Detroit,it already has a multi billion dollar multi state trucking company.

It is more about the logistics of the east and west coast,I can order something from Michigan and it arrives within 3 days verses the West coast from Texas On takes 5 to 7 days,I track ups from Texas and it goes up to Utah then back down and around.It is like a ping pong ball bouncing around the Midwest.

Little Rock used to be the main hub but lately it has been Atlanta or Jacksonville,it is hard to view it as a loss when it would have really made no sense in the first place.

[poobert]

Others have pointed out a lot of dissimilarities between more successful metros, but one thing they seem to have in common is they have managed to not get everything wrong, which I would argue is not true for Detroit/Wayne/Oakland/Macomb.

Oakland is plodding along to the tune of 1980s suburban paradise but we'll see how long that plays out. It is telling of what it has not become, and that its wealth has declined in the past couple decades relative to more forward-thinking areas.

Pleasant weather, a robust urban core, access to nature and recreation, and a highly-educated workforce all seem to help - along with, and the social democrat in me must force myself to be honest - an at least somewhat pro-business climate.

Metro Detroit gets all of that wrong. Kind of sad when you only need to look as far as Ann Arbor or Pittsburgh to see how far you've fallen.

[gnome]

Which industry will put us on the map?

None.

Betting on a single industry is betting on a future loser.

The way the game is played is with tax incentives; which translates into taking money from folks who don’t have it to give.

If Detroit wants to be a livable town focus on small business. Mom and Dad. Shoe shine parlors, dry cleaners, watch shops, clothing stores, appliance repair, carpentry ... invest resources into people and family businesses.

Remove the onerous tax rate of 67 mills on home ownership, 82 mills on businesses.

People make a house a home, homes make neighborhoods and neighborhoods make cities.

Quit the worrying about being “put on the map”, quit trying for the brass ring of some savior industry. It ain’t gonna happen and if it does, it won’t last because it never does.

[iheartthed]

But what Atlanta will not have is Amazon's HQ2, lol.

[casscorridor]

Others have pointed out a lot of dissimilarities between more successful metros, but one thing they seem to have in common is they have managed to not get everything wrong, which I would argue is not true for Detroit/Wayne/Oakland/Macomb.

Oakland is plodding along to the tune of 1980s suburban paradise but we'll see how long that plays out. It is telling of what it has not become, and that its wealth has declined in the past couple decades relative to more forward-thinking areas.

Pleasant weather, a robust urban core, access to nature and recreation, and a highly-educated workforce all seem to help - along with, and the social democrat in me must force myself to be honest - an at least somewhat pro-business climate.

Metro Detroit gets all of that wrong. Kind of sad when you only need to look as far as Ann Arbor or Pittsburgh to see how far you've fallen.

Metro Detroit leaders are delusional. The region has and continues to be in decline. It's blatantly obvious driving around the metro and seeing decaying half empty strip plazas with the same few generic chains, worn out looking subdivisions and equally worn out 1970s office blocks. It's as if they have never left, and therefore can't understand how it could be better. It takes more than visiting another city though, you have to live and experience it to understand. When I left Detroit I had no idea how bad it was until living in a functioning city in Europe. Upon my return back [[to visit, I don't think I would live there again) I was shocked at how depressingly stagnant this region has become. Of course, it's not just Detroit, the same is true in other 'rust belt' areas in America, the UK [[north and Midlands) and parts of Europe.

[Meddle]

This would have made more sense in A2, Lansing or Port Huron than Detroit. Further south like Indy or Columbus would have been even better.

But since it's yet another Jeffy company, I hope it goes belly up sooner than later.

[O3H]

Maybe they didn't like the competition from Matty Maroun
-the CEO of Central transport and other logistics companies.
http://www.centraltransportint.com/!Downloads/ServiceMap.pdf