What's the story on this house? 2265 Boston

[Lorax]

TO RID0617:

TO LORAX, who stated:


You stated that EBDL should have moved out. If all the good people who live in Detroit, like EBDL, move out, wouldn't the city of Detroit continue to decline, but even more rapidly than ever before? Do you want to see the city continue to decline? If so, why are you on a DetroitYES forum?

If all the good people move out, where is the hope for the city?

First of all, it doesn't matter if it was the Oakman district, Boston Edison, etc, etc-it's the same police response.

Nextly, yes, he did make the right decision. You mean to tell me that in the same situation you would go all Omega Man on everybody, and mount gun turretts to your roofline, install electrical fencing and set up a VooDoo shrine with human remains on the front lawn to keep the thugs out?

Give me a break. With every precaution he took to protect his property, I would have left too. Screw it. If you can't spend the night out, go to the grocery store during the day, as was the case with someone I know who lived there, or walk your dog at dusk, then it's not a neighborhood, it's a prison.

[REL]

DaveinWindsor: "To walk away from a really nice house and run around the city screaming the sky is falling because you didn't properly secure your property and ended up getting victimized is just bs. Sorry for the loss, but getting robbed is something you just have to be out on the lookout for when you're living in a larger city."

Your first sentence is shockingly insensitive. Your second sentence, interestingly enough, contradicts the first sentence. At first you blame the victim, and then in the next breath you tell him [[or her) that being a victim is almost to be expected.

Your insistence that this was an 'inside job' is un-f'ing believable. It's really quite simple: someone just saw EDBL leave the house, probably didn't know/didn't care where he was going, and just broke in. They left when they heard him coming back. Not that far-fetched a plot.

And you know what? I know everything there is to know about law enforcement and crime, because I once watched 20 minutes of COPS. So there.

EDBL, sorry for your horrible incident, and sorry you felt like you couldn't post that at first. But I sadly understand why you felt that way.

[masterblaster]

Lorax, I was speaking in general here. If all the good people leave Detroit, there is no hope for a turnaround.

Any renaissance for Detroit will require a critical mass of productive, honest, moral, hard-working people to live in the city, WORK, look after their neighbors, pay their taxes, maintain their properties, get involved in the community, and elect government officials who will be responsive to their needs and wants.

If ALL the good people leave because of the increased likelihood of being victims of crime, and the only people left in the city will be the the criminals who drove people away, and the poor who can't escape, then what may result is a city with a lot of blight and decay and abandonment whose central business district is in such low demand that its buildings, such as a viable, but deteriorated Lafayette Building, are demolished with little outcry.

Do you have any solutions for Detroit to rebound? I would guess that any solutions would require people to implement them. But if all the people are in the suburbs....

[Lorax]

MB, I agree with everything you said, however, it was the right decision for the poster, since his experience was grave enough to not subject himself to additional persecution from his environment, inhospitiable as it is.

The city you describe is the Detroit of today, not a hypothetical place, but we're already in that bad place.

To change it for the better, the people who live there need to elect officals who will respond to their needs, and this process will be slow. The slow, decades long decay of Detroit, and the bad decisions made along the way have only contributed to it's decline, including the continuing bad decisions to level all vacant buildings with no pending replacements.

New elected officials who are educated, intelligent, and responsive, courting private enterprise, knowing when to hand over failing institutions to regional authorities without bitching about it, and frankly, using the funds that are normally put into politicians pockets for purposes of cleaning up the parks, schools, plantings, and visually making an impact- these will be starting points. Revamping the tax structure for residents, bringing taxes down to 500 bucks a year for homes in Boston-Edison and other historic districts to incentivize people to buy and restore the better housing stock- the answers are all around us, it just takes leadership that will implement them.

[Bearinabox]

To change it for the better, the people who live there need to elect officals who will respond to their needs, and this process will be slow.

Should "they" do this before or after "they" move out? Or is it only EDBL who should move out, and the rest of us should stay here and vote?

Revamping the tax structure for residents, bringing taxes down to 500 bucks a year for homes in Boston-Edison and other historic districts to incentivize people to buy and restore the better housing stock- the answers are all around us, it just takes leadership that will implement them.

I thought you said people weren't buying in places like B-E because of the crime. How does lowering the taxes [[and presumably cutting services, including police, to pay for those tax cuts) "incentivize" people to move there?

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "my money and resources weren't tied up in three other large real estate deals."

Translation: When people die I sell all their shit on Ebay.

Another internet Millionaire.

Quote: "My properties were devalued"

No, that's what they've always been worth. You bought them at an inflated price, real businessman you are.

Quote: "and I had two of my lines of credit cancelled because of the credit crunch and new lending rules."

No, it was because you don't have jackshit to back it up.

Quote: "They don't recognize my past success and hard work anymore."

You can't borrow money on past success and hard work. I'm quite confident any lender that sees you went balls to the wall buying up property at ridiculous prices with someone elses money is going to steer clear of you. Funny, you want to call blowing borrowed money on properties priced three times their value a success. You need to look up the definition of success. For the last ten years economists have been preaching about the pitfalls of real estate investment.

LD is right, you're full of it.

We respect our police officers here.

[Lorax]

Should "they" do this before or after "they" move out? Or is it only EDBL who should move out, and the rest of us should stay here and vote?

I thought you said people weren't buying in places like B-E because of the crime. How does lowering the taxes [[and presumably cutting services, including police, to pay for those tax cuts) "incentivize" people to move there?

Crime is certainly a big reason, not the only one. Have you looked at the schools lately? How about the world-class transportation system? How about the insane property taxes? How about the crack houses? Would you like more and better reasons? I think this should be enough.

Lowering taxes would incentivize singles, childless couples and investors to take a risk on Detroit property, if it's priced right. I remember in the 80's the city was giving houses away in Brush Park for 1000.00 bucks if you could "prove" you would rehab the property within a number of years. Even then there were no takers.

Detroit is physically disappearing at an alarming rate. Starting a pilot program of lowering taxes on the most stable neighborhoods is a good start. 500 bucks was used as a toss-out number, obviously it's right on for some homes, and too low for others. But a 10,000.00 tax bill on a 32,000.00 house in BE is insanity, and is more often the norm than the exception.

[Bearinabox]

Detroit is physically disappearing at an alarming rate. Starting a pilot program of lowering taxes on the most stable neighborhoods is a good start.

You mean like the NEZs?

[Lorax]

You mean like the NEZs?

Yes, but more comprehensive, and permanent. A complete restructuring of the property tax system, not some targeted, temporary half-measure.

[Bearinabox]

Yes, but more comprehensive, and permanent. A complete restructuring of the property tax system, not some targeted, temporary half-measure.

A restructuring of the property tax system to shift the burden from stable areas to unstable ones?

[Lorax]

No, since there are no measurable city services now, there would be little change. And what areas exactly do you consider stable???? Certainly not any of the historic neighborhoods. If anything, they are threatened more by a disinigrating city, and have more to lose, since there are more rotten neighborhoods than pleasant ones.

What the city needs to do is take up the healthy cities initiative and return large swaths of the Detroit back to nature, plant dense areas of woods, wetlands, etc.

The population of the city is half it was at it's peak. The best of the neighborhoods, specifically the intact masonry construction should be targeted to save. Mothball buildings, or rehab them, areas like Palmer Park can be saved if they act quickly, and can be places to relocate citizens from other areas to make the most salvagable areas more densly populated.

This will take leadership- zoning changes, relocation incentives, and the savings will come from not having to provide city services to thousands of acres of vacant land where neighborhoods once stood, and will "right size" the city to the services a revamped tax base will provide.

Unfortunately, Detroit's problems are that deep, and can only be solved by making the hard choices. Any actions short of a sweeping, city-wide restructuring will never accomplish what needs to be done to save it.

There are few other options at this point. It something that has been discussed on another thread, and deserves consideration.

[Bearinabox]

No, since there are no measurable city services now, there would be little change.

What the city needs to do is take up the healthy cities initiative and return large swaths of the Detroit back to nature, plant dense areas of woods, wetlands, etc.

The population of the city is half it was at it's peak. The best of the neighborhoods, specifically the intact masonry construction should be targeted to save. Mothball buildings, or rehab them, areas like Palmer Park can be saved if they act quickly, and can be places to relocate citizens from other areas to make the most salvagable areas more densly populated.

This will take leadership- zoning changes, relocation incentives, and the savings will come from not having to provide city services to thousands of acres of vacant land where neighborhoods once stood, and will "right size" the city to the services a revamped tax base will provide.

Unfortunately, Detroit's problems are that deep, and can only be solved by making the hard choices. Any actions short of a sweeping, city-wide restructuring will never accomplish what needs to be done to save it.

There are few other options at this point. It something that has been discussed on another thread, and deserves consideration.

You keep changing your argument. This discussion has outlived its purpose.

[Lorax]

You keep changing your argument. This discussion has outlived its purpose.

Apparently you're looking for someone to agree with your position that Detroit is a hopeless cause.

My argument isn't changing, it's always been the same.

Problem is, it's fallen on deaf ears.

[Bearinabox]

Apparently you're looking for someone to agree with your position that Detroit is a hopeless cause.

My argument isn't changing, it's always been the same.

Problem is, it's fallen on deaf ears.

That isn't my position. I've gone out of my way to avoid stating my position, because I'm trying to get you to state yours, refine it, and defend it. You seem unable to do so. I'm beginning to think you are a hopeless cause.

[Lorax]

That isn't my position. I've gone out of my way to avoid stating my position, because I'm trying to get you to state yours, refine it, and defend it. You seem unable to do so. I'm beginning to think you are a hopeless cause.

No, you don't have a position, and slip in one liner drive-bys to bait the other person into "revealing their hand" as if this is an Oxford style debate.

It really isn't that big of a deal, and if you are unwilling or unable to contribute in a meaninful way, then don't respond.

[GRALR]

We also love the housing stock in BE and other areas too. Realtor .com is my fav site to look at your housing and it is truly amazing! We came to town last fall and were impressed with the city and people. I grew up in south central LA and am well familiar with large cities, riots, crime, gangs etc. When people describe Detroit, more specifically [[B-E) they say it is a certainty that if you live in there you will almost die and certainly be a victim of crime. The city image so horrible I find it all so hard to believe.

What we saw when we were there was a jewel of a town with great houses, museums, people and spirit. As a preservationist we have lived in some very tough areas for the love of our historical architectural homes. Even in the toughest of neighborhoods we survived.

Times are different today however, with drugs, guns, social breakdown, and unemployment on a massive scale and places like BE as a jewel-target for the surrounding areas, I am concerned as the crisis deepens that this area will be looted, not only one house at a time but even on on more of a larger scale.

It seems from this post and others that the lack of police services will eventually be the hole in the dam.

Look forward to your thoughts

[Lorax]

I had been looking in Boston-Edison, and still love the area, more than perhaps other areas of the city. I ended up buying in Southfield/Oakland County, and feel it was the right move for me. I am away too much to leave a property unoccupied for any length of time.

You are correct about the lack of police response, as it is customary now for Detroit Police to not respond in person when a property crime is involved. Resources are stretched too thin. Drugs and violence are what they concentrate on, and since buildings like the Lee Plaza Hotel on Grand Blvd. can have their copper roofs removed in broad daylight by scrappers, goes to prove this point.

I'm afraid residents of Detroit are really on their own, and have staggering tax rates in spite of having no city services. Until the current tax rates make sense with regard to the level of services provided, or the taxes go down to triple digits, reflecting the level of services currently received, then the situation will only worsen.

[Fury13]

...If all the good people leave Detroit, there is no hope for a turnaround...

If ALL the good people leave because of the increased likelihood of being victims of crime, and the only people left in the city will be the the criminals who drove people away, and the poor who can't escape, then what may result is a city with a lot of blight and decay and abandonment whose central business district is in such low demand that its buildings, such as a viable, but deteriorated Lafayette Building, are demolished with little outcry...

Exactly the point.

[pffft]

"You are correct about the lack of police response, as it is customary now for Detroit Police to not respond in person when a property crime is involved."

When I was mugged at gunpoint with two friends inside the foyer of a Palmer Park apartment building in 1980, the cops did not come. When we called, they took the report over the phone...so this has been going on for some time.

[Fury13]

My security door is a steel fire door with steel frame secured by eight inch carraige bolts that go straight into the brick wall that I picked up from Habitat. A used steel firedoor and frame with carriage bolts and spray in foam = $100. Impossible to kick open. My deadbolts are $200 Ikons from Germany with three sided keys that are next to impossible to pick, not those cheap easily picked $10 one sided key deadbolts from Home Depot. IKON will give you, what did the locksmith say, $5,000 if somebody successfully picks them. If you loose the keys, a locksmith has to spend over half an hour to drill a hole through it to open it. I have cemented glass block windows on my basement and easily accessable windows. Style that keeps with the old architecture and heavy duty security. And, if you have a decent alarm, it'll have a telephone dialer feature so you can have it dial one of your neighbours if the alarm goes off when you're out of the area.

And it is SO worth taking all of these drastic measures just for the "experience" of living in the city. Gee.