Up Goes the Northern Wall: Windsor nurses working in Detroit denied entry to US

[Lowell]

The new normal? What will the retaliation be? Not good.

"Canadian nurses working at Michigan hospitals were shocked last week when border security officers stopped them from entering the U.S. because of changes to their working visas under new immigration policies.

Staff at Detroit's Henry Ford Hospital heard reports of nurses unable to renew their working visas. Last week, a new Canadian hire at Henry Ford tried to go to work, but was turned away at the Windsor-Detroit border.

Henry Ford Hospital alone has hundreds of Canadians on staff, with about 25 advanced practice nurses or nurse anesthetists with TN visas."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windso...cted-1.4026554

[Richard]

What I do not get is why the one way street when it comes to the borders,the US is supposed to have open borders but yet the borders we share are more restrictive towards crossing then we are.

Can one have a 40 year old insignificant felony and cross the border into Canada ?

How many over the road truck drivers with felonies are allowed to cross the border while on the job?

Is this medical field so speclized that American citizens are exempt mentally to perform it?

I realize the special relationship between Canada and Detroit in regards to working across the border and Canadians are our buds but name one other country that Americans can cross the border and legally work under any we hire them because we cannot find anybody else to work program.

[401don]

What I do not get is why the one way street when it comes to the borders,the US is supposed to have open borders but yet the borders we share are more restrictive towards crossing then we are.

Can one have a 40 year old insignificant felony and cross the border into Canada ?

How many over the road truck drivers with felonies are allowed to cross the border while on the job?

Is this medical field so speclized that Americans citizens are exempt mentally to perform it?

I realize the special relationship between Canada and Detroit in regards to working across the border and Canadians are our buds but name one other country that Americans can cross the border and legally work under any we hire them because we cannot find anybody else to work program.

I'm no expert but I believe it's easier for Americans to attain work visas in Canada than vice versa.

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...49760088,d.amc

[Richard]

I'm no expert but I believe it's easier for Americans to attain work visas in Canada than vice versa.

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...49760088,d.amc

Not really according to this one,which also lists the high skills work visa costs upwards of $6000 CAD

http://globalnews.ca/news/2562300/he...ate-to-canada/


That is the immigration as in moving there aspect.

It is points based system,high skilled equals more points,the skills they are talking about in the op
pay $160 k two weeks on two weeks off and up to $450 k a year full time with OT
would one move to CA and work under their health care system and make the same money?

My point was every country in the world has immigration policies and it does not matter unless you are
highly skilled or spend upwards $500k an American would be hard pressed to immigrate there
and it would also be under the guise that unless you are a legal citizen of that country you
will always be subject to changing political climates.

Under their points system if you are 50 years old and unskilled then you would have a tough time.

So they are kinda like us and every other country in the world,highly skilled,youngish,are welcome provided you
follow the flavor of the month immigration policies.

Silicone valley is up in arms over this to and it kinda makes one wonder why all of this student loan debt
but yet we have to import brains.Maybe the foreigners are correct when they say Americans are stupid.

[Wesley Mouch]

...
Is this medical field so speclized that American citizens are exempt mentally to perform it?
...

I don't see how citizenship matters. If HFHospital decides to hire a Canadian nurse, what's the problem? Its in our best interest to have the best professionals in jobs. Even if there are qualified Americans, I want the employer to make decisions on who to hire based on their judgement, not the judgment of Donald Trump, or Bernie Sanders.

If you're in the hospital needing attention, do you really care whether the specialist you need comes from Southfield or Techumseh? I'd like the best one please.

[Johnnny5]

I don't see how citizenship matters. If HFHospital decides to hire a Canadian nurse, what's the problem? Its in our best interest to have the best professionals in jobs. Even if there are qualified Americans, I want the employer to make decisions on who to hire based on their judgement, not the judgment of Donald Trump, or Bernie Sanders.

If you're in the hospital needing attention, do you really care whether the specialist you need comes from Southfield or Techumseh? I'd like the best one please.

If totally left up to employers it's far more likely they would choose the cheapest route over the "best".

Honestly, it's Canada that has more to lose than the U.S. They're training nursing specialists and doctors just to see many of them leave for the higher salaries offered across the border. That's a huge drain on their healthcare system, and it's becoming a major problem for them.

[Wesley Mouch]

If totally left up to employers it's far more likely they would choose the cheapest route over the "best".

I prefer to think that they'd choose the most efficient -- the link between quality and cost.

Honestly, it's Canada that has more to lose than the U.S. They're training nursing specialists and doctors just to see many of them leave for the higher salaries offered across the border. That's a huge drain on their healthcare system, and it's becoming a major problem for them.

So you're saying that the US benefits from immigrant [[or border-hopping) labor. Yes, I agree. So long as the migrant provides value to their community, the community would be wise to accept them.

[Richard]

I don't see how citizenship matters. If HFHospital decides to hire a Canadian nurse, what's the problem? Its in our best interest to have the best professionals in jobs. Even if there are qualified Americans, I want the employer to make decisions on who to hire based on their judgement, not the judgment of Donald Trump, or Bernie Sanders.

If you're in the hospital needing attention, do you really care whether the specialist you need comes from Southfield or Techumseh? I'd like the best one please.

So what happens if something goes wrong? Sorry they left in the middle of the night back to their country.

The hospital in the OP is not talking about care nurses,they are referring to anithiesoligists [[bad spelling) and requires a bachelor degree on the US side.

As long as we are picking and choosing what laws we can follow or not ,I purpose that we eliminate the RICO act and look the other way when it comes to organized crime as it would be in the countries best interest to actually put some leadership back into the criminal aspect.

I also think that the criminal court system needs to be shut down,because why would anybody say he or she is a fellow American so put them in jail and that foreigner they get a pass because I think the law they broke is okay.

You either have laws or you do not,you cannot pick and choose which laws you wish to follow,well I have not been able to anyways.

Move to Canada illegally and see what happens,if you get caught you get sent back,just like we do,why?

Because they are also a nation of laws that have repercussions if they are not followed.

Funny how that works,if the US follows the laws on the books then we are not compassionate but any other country can retain and inforce their laws and nobody says nothing.

Who ever does not agree with this,next time your house is robbed,you are mugged or any crime is committed against you,do not worry about it because we now have a selective and compassionate legal system of laws and the perpetrator just needed the money or goods to feed their babies so it is okay.

[Canadian Visitor]

So what happens if something goes wrong? Sorry they left in the middle of the night back to their country.

The hospital in the OP is not talking about care nurses,they are referring to anithiesoligists [[bad spelling) and requires a bachelor degree on the US side.

As long as we are picking and choosing what laws we can follow or not ,I purpose that we eliminate the RICO act and look the other way when it comes to organized crime as it would be in the countries best interest to actually put some leadership back into the criminal aspect.

I also think that the criminal court system needs to be shut down,because why would anybody say he or she is a fellow American so put them in jail and that foreigner they get a pass because I think the law they broke is okay.

You either have laws or you do not,you cannot pick and choose which laws you wish to follow,well I have not been able to anyways.

Move to Canada illegally and see what happens,if you get caught you get sent back,just like we do,why?

Because they are also a nation of laws that have repercussions if they are not followed.

Funny how that works,if the US follows the laws on the books then we are not compassionate but any other country can retain and inforce their laws and nobody says nothing.

Who ever does not agree with this,next time your house is robbed,you are mugged or any crime is committed against you,do not worry about it because we now have a selective and compassionate legal system of laws and the perpetrator just needed the money or goods to feed their babies so it is okay.

There are so many problematic issues here.

First off, nurses.

There are several types.

However, RNs in Canada.... [[all of them) have a 4-year Hon. B.A. in nursing.

Further, nurses w/additional training such as Nurse Practitioners [[can issue a variety of prescriptions and referrals) and those w/other specialty training have 4 yrs +

Unto itself that doesn't entitle them to work in the US or anywhere else for that matter.

But they are qualified for the jobs they seek, and we do produce a disproportionate number here, hence why quite a few are available to work across the border [[it is not strictly a salary issue, as RNs are quite well paid here).

There is, however, a lot of part-time rather than full-time work at the moment for them. There are a myriad reasons for that, but it certainly makes a F/T offer in the US more tempting, especially if you still get to live at home.

***

I have no difficulty w/the argument that foreigners should obtain correct VISAs; though, its worth saying, anyone caught up in this particular discussion would easily qualify for an H1B so unless you're terribly exited about the hassle for the applicant or the extra 2k and change that that visa brings the gov't; it hardly makes a difference.

***

I also have no difficulty w/the argument that large organizations take advantage of global labour markets to lower costs, at least in some, and sometimes in many cases.

That's simply true.

Is it wonderful? Or a panacea for local labour markets? No.

However, a few things are worth noting here.

These nurses are crossing the border [[in this particular case) for six-figure pay cheques.

This is not a case of 'cheap labour' causing harsh local conditions.

Know any Americans who are both qualified and willing to do this job for 100k? If so, there will be no more Cdn hires.

Turns out you're a tad under-supplied in this particular category.

Wanna change that? Great! But you'll have to increase student places available and probably lower tuition in order to fill them.

Not sure whose gonna pay for that............

***

Let's then move on to 'entry to Canada'

I keep hearing how awful we are for turning down convicted criminals.

Ergo, you should deny entry to specialized nurses.

Really?

No one would be fussed if you turned down a nurse convicted of a serious crime.

That's not what was happening.

We don't refuse people w/legal work visas in Canada. [[and we dont' give those out to people w/serious criminal convictions) .

These nurses all had legal visas. [[and as such had passed background checks).

Sigh......

***

Finally, yes, we refuse entry to people from time to time at the border, who do NOT have legal visas, and who also have criminal convictions.

But just as a matter of fact.....for better or worse.........we don't automatically deport people for entering the country illegally.

If you apply for refugee status.....we give you a hearing.....and consider the facts before deciding whether or not to deport you.

* [[only applies if you do not use a legal border crossing)

[GMan]

There are so many problematic issues here.

First off, nurses.

There are several types.

However, RNs in Canada.... [[all of them) have a 4-year Hon. B.A. in nursing.

Further, nurses w/additional training such as Nurse Practitioners [[can issue a variety of prescriptions and referrals) and those w/other specialty training have 4 yrs +

Unto itself that doesn't entitle them to work in the US or anywhere else for that matter.

But they are qualified for the jobs they seek, and we do produce a disproportionate number here, hence why quite a few are available to work across the border [[it is not strictly a salary issue, as RNs are quite well paid here).

There is, however, a lot of part-time rather than full-time work at the moment for them. There are a myriad reasons for that, but it certainly makes a F/T offer in the US more tempting, especially if you still get to live at home.

***

I have no difficulty w/the argument that foreigners should obtain correct VISAs; though, its worth saying, anyone caught up in this particular discussion would easily qualify for an H1B so unless you're terribly exited about the hassle for the applicant or the extra 2k and change that that visa brings the gov't; it hardly makes a difference.

***

I also have no difficulty w/the argument that large organizations take advantage of global labour markets to lower costs, at least in some, and sometimes in many cases.

That's simply true.

Is it wonderful? Or a panacea for local labour markets? No.

However, a few things are worth noting here.

These nurses are crossing the border [[in this particular case) for six-figure pay cheques.

This is not a case of 'cheap labour' causing harsh local conditions.

Know any Americans who are both qualified and willing to do this job for 100k? If so, there will be no more Cdn hires.

Turns out you're a tad under-supplied in this particular category.

Wanna change that? Great! But you'll have to increase student places available and probably lower tuition in order to fill them.

Not sure whose gonna pay for that............

***

Let's then move on to 'entry to Canada'

I keep hearing how awful we are for turning down convicted criminals.

Ergo, you should deny entry to specialized nurses.

Really?

No one would be fussed if you turned down a nurse convicted of a serious crime.

That's not what was happening.

We don't refuse people w/legal work visas in Canada. [[and we dont' give those out to people w/serious criminal convictions) .

These nurses all had legal visas. [[and as such had passed background checks).

Sigh......

***

Finally, yes, we refuse entry to people from time to time at the border, who do NOT have legal visas, and who also have criminal convictions.

But just as a matter of fact.....for better or worse.........we don't automatically deport people for entering the country illegally.

If you apply for refugee status.....we give you a hearing.....and consider the facts before deciding whether or not to deport you.

* [[only applies if you do not use a legal border crossing)

Not sure we are talking about the same thing here. Are the Canadian RN practitioners acting as CRNA's in the US? If so that could be considered a move to weaken the pay structure of the profession. The CRNA degree is a masters program.

[Scottathew]

I don't see how citizenship matters. If HFHospital decides to hire a Canadian nurse, what's the problem? Its in our best interest to have the best professionals in jobs. Even if there are qualified Americans, I want the employer to make decisions on who to hire based on their judgement, not the judgment of Donald Trump, or Bernie Sanders.

Also, jobs where you have to be physically present aren't a big deal to have filled by people in other countries. There are limits as to how far you can commute. People who are from Canada and work in the USA also feed money back into our economy.

[Bong-Man]

I don't know what your personal experiences may have been, but I dispute your very first sentence. It's pretty much always been easier to get from here to there than vice-versa. Advanced Practice & Anesthetist Nurses is a specialty. I imagine for a local graduating H.S. student scoring 9% in Science, such fields might be a struggle. At least we can understand their Canadian English, eh ?

Last I looked it's a 4 year felony to knowingly employ an illegal alien. Instead of going after 20-30 million undocumented people, why not just go after their employers who are making the real money from utilizing them ? Le Orange never mentions that side...just killers, rapists, and pot growers.

[EastsideAl]

"Instead of going after 20-30 million undocumented people, why not just go after their employers who are making the real money from utilizing them ? Le Orange never mentions that side...just killers, rapists, and pot growers."

Because that wouldn't serve their purposes of scapegoating the working poor, and pandering to ignorant xenophobia, in order to let their rich buddies and benefactors off the hook.

[ABetterDetroit]

"Instead of going after 20-30 million undocumented people, why not just go after their employers who are making the real money from utilizing them ? Le Orange never mentions that side...just killers, rapists, and pot growers."

Because that wouldn't serve their purposes of scapegoating the working poor, and pandering to ignorant xenophobia, in order to let their rich buddies and benefactors off the hook.

^This is the exact truth of it.

[Bham1982]

"Instead of going after 20-30 million undocumented people, why not just go after their employers who are making the real money from utilizing them ? Le Orange never mentions that side...just killers, rapists, and pot growers."

Because that wouldn't serve their purposes of scapegoating the working poor, and pandering to ignorant xenophobia, in order to let their rich buddies and benefactors off the hook.

This. Trump will NEVER go after the employers of illegals.

This is the only reason the U.S. has any illegal immigration, yet Trump won't do the one easy thing that every other country does to stem illegal immigration. He's a liar, bigot and scumbag.

[Jimaz]

... Last I looked it's a 4 year felony to knowingly employ an illegal alien. Instead of going after 20-30 million undocumented people, why not just go after their employers who are making the real money from utilizing them ?...

Because of corruption? <gasp> I've heard those laws haven't been enforced since Reagan took office.

... Le Orange never mentions that side...just killers, rapists, and pot growers.

Another group never criticized are whoever decided to abandon American workers en masse. Sure, there are impoverished foreign workers and immigrants who may have benefited modestly from lost American jobs but the idea that these powerless groups would have had the wherewithal to plan, initiate and execute this massive scale of labor upheaval is absurd.

The real job-destroying parasitic saboteurs in power prefer to hide behind "job creator" masks.

[Richard]

Last I looked it's a 4 year felony to knowingly employ an illegal alien. Instead of going after 20-30 million undocumented people, why not just go after their employers who are making the real money from utilizing them ? Le Orange never mentions that side...just killers, rapists, and pot growers.

They do occasionally to make it look good but states like Fla,Cali,Texas etc there is a whole economic sub culture going on,it is kinda like the drug trade,they will never stop it because of the billions of dollars involved so like anything else there are ways around it.

Nothing to do with le orange or le black before him it is just the way it works.

[EastsideAl]

This is disgusting on every level. One of my father's favorite nurse-practitioners at HFH, who has helped treat him for several years for COPD, has apparently been kept out of the country under this idiotic ruling.

As someone who has family on both sides of the border, with a long history of cross-border commuting going both ways, and as a Detroiter/Windsorite who takes great pride in the special relationship between our cities and our countries, I can't even begin to tell you how furious this makes me. Shame on all of the people involved in this decision, particularly our dangerously willfully ignorant [[and even more dangerously mentally ill) xenophobe-in-chief.

[canuck]

I can't wait for them robots we all been hearing about just plain do everything for us.

No more need for Mexicans and Central Americans for tasks unrelated to agriculture may have something to do with it. The Japanese have a slew of robot caretakers for old folks homes already.

There is a bigger agenda behind all this anti-foreign woman and manpower business.

[ABetterDetroit]

There is a bigger agenda behind all this anti-foreign woman and manpower business.

How about pushing hate, scapegoating and nationalism heavily in order to seize political power to further their own personal agenda?

Just a suggestion on account that has happened repeatedly before in politics and human history.

Big conspiracies are far more rare.

[canuck]

How about pushing hate, scapegoating and nationalism heavily in order to seize political power to further their own personal agenda?

Just a suggestion on account that has happened repeatedly before in politics and human history.

Big conspiracies are far more rare.

Sure, but I remember traveling to San Diego's border with Mexico late one night with a friend in 1990 and witnessing the hundreds of young men waiting for foremen to choose day laborers in the morning. It was about one O'clock in the morning and all these guys stood waiting, which means that the influx was tolerated.

What if, in the very near future we are anticipating, fewer people need to be let into the US because of increasing mechanization in all sectors of the economy?

Is there not a sense of anticipation by industry leaders? I heard an article on the radio the other day about the advent of robots in households in the US. The reporters claimed 10% of homes will have robots in 2020.

[canuck]

How about pushing hate, scapegoating and nationalism heavily in order to seize political power to further their own personal agenda?

Just a suggestion on account that has happened repeatedly before in politics and human history.

Big conspiracies are far more rare.

You can call them conspiracies, or you can call it pushing buttons.

Today, an interesting bit on the Chump;

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...ump-presidency

[Honky Tonk]

You can call them conspiracies, or you can call it pushing buttons.

Today, an interesting bit on the Chump;

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...ump-presidency

So then it was't the Russians?

[canuck]

So then it was't the Russians?

Maybe a bit of both... This from a Toronto commentator;

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-co...itary-alliance


It was Norman Jewison [[a Toronto born filmmaker) who sounded the horn back in the sixties with his "The Russians are coming, the Russians are coming."

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Well, since the Apricot Mussolini is hell-bent on denying health care to Americans, maybe this is just a part of that.

I certainly feel MUCH safer knowing that Canadian nurses cannot get into the U.S. Doesn't everyone?

I currently live in Palm Springs. I already know Canadian snowbirds who are becoming reluctant to travel here. I am rapidly becoming ashamed of this country.