Hudson's Site Building Thread

[RaumVogel]

Sorry, I had a bad day yesterday.... the older gentleman I take grocery shopping every week, who lives 3 doors down from me, and smokes like a chimney... made a fatal mistake...

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...ded-cigarette/

That's so sad. Thanks for being the good guy who took him grocery shopping. More people should step up like that.

[MrMichigan]

The Monroe Block delay is much more disappointing than the height decrease imo.

[Warrenite84]

If only the incentives the city gave up would have "locked" a height designation for the project. Another option I would have liked would be amount of tax write off contingent on surpassing set height levels to get the full benefit.

[Warrenite84]

For the Hockey Arena project, the City could have given up portions of the tax write off contingent on various phases of the project being completed. 50+ blocks of development were in the proposal. Hindsight is 20 20 but from now on the City needs to add strings to ensure bait and switch schemes end for good.

[313rd]

From what I gather with approximate values;

$3 Billion to date to acquire and renovate approximatley 100 Properties.

$2.6 Billion related to the tax incentives for the following [[4) Four Projects;

1.) One Campus Martius Addition...exterior almost complete, interior floors being built out.

2.) Book Tower...exterior almost complete, interior almost ready for build out.

3.) Hudson Tower...caisons complete, steel being erected in Spring? Instead on tallest building, still getting over 600 ft and probably close to a $1 Billion dollar price tag.

4.) Monroe Block....I picture this as a staging area for Hudsons Site, and nothing would even start here for at least 5 years. But i'd not be surprised if not done at all by Bedrock.

$1 Billion in Other Major Projects
5.) Wayne COunty jain $570 Million, moving ahead full speed.
6.) U of M w/Ross $300 Million....skippers rule, will wait and see.
7.) Chase Tower Renovations, project just started.

I still feel it was too ambitious to start the four big projects [[1-4 above) all at the same time, then throw in Jail. Too big of a bite to chew. But to feel like Bedrock is playing us, not sure I can agree with that.

[stinkytofu]

The height is something people can point to as progress. It's almost symbolic, since most of us will never actually be up in one of those condos. Tall buildings are notable, and they have been since we started building them, so of course people will be interested in the final height and disappointed when it doesn't surpass the Ren Cen. We don't get to see these kind of projects very often in Detroit.

I don't know - I'd prefer three 30 story buildings over 1 90 story building everyday of the week.

[Nicholas D'Asti]

I was hoping for at least 800ft if not 912. I do think that 912 would have looked a bit out of place with its surroundings, but the fact that it won't even be 727ft is pretty disappointing.

[stinkytofu]

To be fair, I'm starting to get quite leery that we'll even see a tower before the next downturn. I just hope we get some type of substantial building...built...soon.

[Metro25]

Bedrock has truly fundamentally changed this city if we're honestly raging over only having a second tallest building under construction.

5 years ago if you told anybody Book Tower and MCS were under renovation or a UofM campus was coming we'd all say you were on heavy drugs.

[DetroitSoldier]

I would take 9 buildings at 100 feet over 1 building at 900 feet. But that's just me. To each their own. I see density and the objective of critical mass as a more necessary goal than bragging rights for height.

[stinkytofu]

I would take 9 buildings at 100 feet over 1 building at 900 feet. But that's just me. To each their own. I see density and the objective of critical mass as a more necessary goal than bragging rights for height.

Yep. We're in the same boat.

[EGrant]

I don't know - I'd prefer three 30 story buildings over 1 90 story building everyday of the week.

I don't think I disagree. But people love tall buildings, which is why there's been so much chatter around the height.

[Danny]

Gilbert Tower will not the biggest building in Michigan. Don't think too big, Gilbert. Detroit is still trying shake off the Coleman Young to Kwame Kilpatrick years. Investors will come if you can prove this city got guts.

[bartocktoo]

Bedrock has truly fundamentally changed this city if we're honestly raging over only having a second tallest building under construction.

5 years ago if you told anybody Book Tower and MCS were under renovation or a UofM campus was coming we'd all say you were on heavy drugs.

I'd go back to the Broderick Tower and the Stott Building too. When you look at just the lights that are on downtown at night in relative comparison, it's stunning.

[Warrenite84]

Although I agree this was a package deal, I cannot help but look at the projects individually. Indeed I'm very happy the Stott and Book Tower projects and the attention to historical detail Mr. Gilbert has decided to put in them. I just see the CBD a finite space that will be eventually filled. Like the Stott Building, I do not foresee any major changes to the Hudson's Site after this project is finished.

This is how it will look on our skyline in 90-100 years. Will we be proud of the completed buildings or lament that we could have gotten it right when the opportunity presented itself? Will we be satisfied with a shortened CBD or one that fully utilized that unique space the Augustus Woodward envisioned?

[DetroitSoldier]

Will we be satisfied with a shortened CBD or one that fully utilized that unique space the Augustus Woodward envisioned?

Honestly, Augustus Woodward's vision died the day Henry Ford perfected the assembly line for automobiles. The demand for parking, and Detroit's insistence on a "car first" society meant that we would never again develop land with the density and diversity of building stock and creative land use that we had during the 1800's and early decades of the 1900's. What remains from Woodward's original plan is pot marked with surface lots and parking garages as large as the surrounding buildings.

When I lived in Germany I was astounded by the amount of underground parking, often retrofitted under existing buildings. And it was not always in big cities. A nearby town of less than 20,000 had 3 underground garages. We can only hope that demand becomes strong enough to push parking below-grade someday in Detroit. It won't be in my lifetime, but we can hope. Detroit developments would include a much higher quality design and a more diverse tenancy if everything did not rely on adjacent parking that sacrifices quality of the building and space design.

[expatriate]

I personally was never fond of the idea of the tallest skyscraper goal. I would much prefer spreading that development over many of the vacant parcels downtown that would create more vibrant streetscape. I would echo Detroitsoldiers comment about putting parking underground. Paris does an amazing job of this, although granted they don't drive the behemoth vehicles we are so wedded to.

[DetroitSoldier]

I would echo Detroitsoldiers comment about putting parking underground. Paris does an amazing job of this, although granted they don't drive the behemoth vehicles we are so wedded to.

100% unrelated to this thread but it's a great story...When we lived in Europe we would drive our Chevrolet Equinox through cities like Paris or Prague and people would literally take photos of it like we do in the USA with Lamborghinis. They just don't see vehicles of our makes/models, and general size too often. Vans are common, SUV's are not.

[Jason]

For everyone talking about the city, the tax incentives are a state program rebating state taxes.

I'm not sure what if any incentives Hudsons is getting from the city.

[Atticus]

When talking about downtown’s market for new development, I wonder if we have plateaued?

More specifically, in years past there were regular announcements of “Company X is moving or consolidating N number of jobs to downtown”. It used to be a regular occurrence, but doesn’t happen much anymore. Sure there is slow but steady organic growth of jobs for companies already located in the CBD, but most of the formerly suburban based jobs that were ripe for relocation have been moved.

My point is all of those new or relocated jobs Downtown were the primary fuel for the new apartments and condos. They also helped the business case for the new stores and restaurants as well. As the growth in new jobs has plateaued, so has the demand for new residential and other developments, and I think that is a major contributor to the scaling back of these projects.

Point being, for large new developments [[like the Hudson’s and Monroe Block projects) to have good business cases going forward, we need more jobs. And if the city has plucked the low and mid hanging fruit from the suburbs, the city will be forced to attract new jobs from outside the region to continue to fuel the downtown growth. We may have grown too attached to pushing up projects that we have overlooked the root need of attracting new jobs to Detroit.

[Metro25]

More specifically, in years past there were regular announcements of “Company X is moving or consolidating N number of jobs to downtown”. It used to be a regular occurrence, but doesn’t happen much anymore.

This is just not true. WPP announced moving to downtown with 1,000 jobs just last late November. Boston Consulting Group announced a move downtown last December. There was an article that stated Plum Market was looking to move their HQ downtown as well.

[Atticus]

This is just not true. WPP announced moving to downtown with 1,000 jobs just last late November. Boston Consulting Group announced a move downtown last December. There was an article that stated Plum Market was looking to move their HQ downtown as well.

That is great. And yes the moves are still happening. I never said they weren’t, just that they had slowed significantly. What once was a steady river has slowed to a decent trickle.

The point remains, Detroit needs more larger moves and significant HQ relocations. The only really big one of note recently is the TCF Bank merger and relocation.

[Luke09]

There was an article that stated Plum Market was looking to move their HQ downtown as well.

They should move their HQ to Detroit considering they have more locations in Detroit than any other city.

[Gistok]

I would take 9 buildings at 100 feet over 1 building at 900 feet. But that's just me. To each their own. I see density and the objective of critical mass as a more necessary goal than bragging rights for height.

So you would like to see downtown as a continuation of midtown?

Y'all must be giddy over the 6 story wooden "stick built" Village Green apartments on the entire Statler block...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3flv5nWZgII

[EGrant]

Nine 10-story buildings would probably have a greater impact on the density, walkability and urban fabric of Detroit than one massive 80-90 story building. Not as sexy, but in a downtown with countless empty lots and parking lots, those buildings would end up being more of a net benefit than bragging the rights the tallest building in Michigan would earn.

Sure, the design of the Village Green building is uninspired and suburban, but it will bring new residents and retail to an area that was empty or the set of a bad Transformers movie for a long time. Not giddy about the design, but I am hopeful for the potential transformation of Washington Blvd. as that building is completed and the Book renovation is done.

Extreme example, but the appeal of Paris is not La Defense's skyscrapers, but rather the 6-story Haussmann buildings that brought density and walkable districts that still remain in the face of today's unfriendly glass towers in other cities.