Hudson's Site Building Thread

[bigboat]

There was a Big Boat. Economies are for sucka's

Some commentators on this forum could possibly own a "BIGBOAT" hence the name on my posts. Ford never collapsed, the Dearborn Ritz closed much before the 2008-2009 economic depression and it is now named differently. Same thing happened to the Dearborn Hyatt Regency not too far down the road.

[313WX]

Some commentators on this forum could possibly own a "BIGBOAT" hence the name on my posts.

We know facts clearly aren't your strong point.

Ford never collapsed

So what rock were you living under when Ford had a record $14.6 billion lost, mortgaged itself down to the Blue Oval and eliminated nearly 70,000 jobs in 2002 - 2006 [[while closing at least 14 plants).

Source:

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2...rican_ico.html

...the Dearborn Ritz closed much before the 2008-2009 economic depression...

The Ritz Carlton marquee was taken down on 6/2/10.

Source:

http://www.pressandguide.com/news/de...8f3aebdd1.html

Same thing happened to the Dearborn Hyatt Regency not too far down the road.

The former Dearborn Hyatt Regency closed in 2018 because the current owner didn't want to spend the money to renovate and maintain what is ultimately a poorly aging building.

Source:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.det...amp/2312264002

As far as the Hyatt name being dropped, that was in 2012. While I'm sure faltering business travel tied to Ford's collapse and Metro Detroit's economy being in the dumps didn't help, it was largely because the owner was trash.

A brand as renowed as Hyatt doesn't want to be associated with slumlords!? Shocking, I know!!!

Source:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/detroit...ment-team/amp/

I don't expect you to respond and admit you were wrong, since you ignored my last post. But I do feel obligated to let others who read this forum know that you're spreading falsehoods and set the record straight.

[Richard]

^ he is also invested heavily in Cleveland and I kinda think that those would be two cities that could be used as equal comparisons,not comparing Detroit to Houston or Minneapolis etc.

He is the numbers guy so personally I kinda think he knows what he is doing.

From a standpoint of looking from the outside in and if we are comparing cities,I see more smart growth happing in Detroit where as the other cities are building on current demand and not long term.

That is what Detroit did in the past and did not prepare for the future,the real test will be when a recession hits,like they always have a habit of popping up.Sure things will slow down or even might come to a stall,but I have a tendency to think that Detroit is in a good spot to recover faster and have a lesser effect during.

When it comes to hotel space,the elephant in the room is the amount of planned hotels for when the bridge is completed and what thier impact would be on downtown locations,I also believe that the fairgrounds plans also include new hotels.

So even if the downtown could at this time support a luxury brand it is scary at my pay grade thinking if it could survive and what happens if it cannot.

Thats kinda how I come up with the slow build out being more so based on a pay as you go in order to decrease debt load for when it comes online,worst case scenario it can hold its own and still compete.

On a small scale comparison it would be kinda like me buying a house based solely expecting the tenants to pay the mortgage,if it sits empty for 6 months,I still have to cover the note or lose it.

[313WX]

^ he is also invested heavily in Cleveland and I kinda think that those would be two cities that could be used as equal comparisons,not comparing Detroit to Houston or Minneapolis etc.

Saying that Detroit is an equal comparison to a city 1/3 to half its size is absurd.

That would be like comparing San Antonio with Dallas. Yeah, they're both in Texas and they both have basketball teams, but that's about as far as the similarities go.

[Richard]

Saying that Detroit is an equal comparison to a city 1/3 to half its size is absurd.

That would be like comparing San Antonio with Dallas. Yeah, they're both in Texas and they both have basketball teams, but that's about as far as the similarities go.

Size does not matter,it is two cities that were devastated in similar circumstances that are both in the process of rediscovering themselves.

Minneapolis,Atlanta and other cities were in the same place 30 40 years ago so how can one use them as a comparison.

Portland and the Texas,Arizona,Nashville etc cities used in comparison are benefiting from the massive influx and investment of people relocating from States such as California.

Detroit and Cleveland are both cities that are reinventing themselves based solely on working with what they have without the added benefit of a massive population shift fueling it.

That is the difference outside of the basic metrics that every city has as a base no matter what size they are.

Outside of that set of basic metrics,Detroit is Detroit,she does not need to reinvent herself in anybody else’s image or by useing thier floorplan as a blueprint,she needs to reinvent herself in a way that works for her and her citizens.

[LeightonGeo]

"Outside of that set of basic metrics,Detroit is Detroit,she does not need to reinvent herself in anybody else’s image or by useing thier floorplan as a blueprint,she needs to reinvent herself in a way that works for her and her citizens."

I agree completely. No city on Earth has had a boom followed by such a suburbanization and globalization bust as massive as Detroit-proper. It's bones, character, chemistry and rebirth cannot be compared to any other place save for Cleveland, which is almost identical but half the size [[city & metro).

When you shake it out the cities of Rustbelt and the Northeast will always have more character and flavor than the Denvers, Charlottes, Phoenixes and Nashvilles of the world. I refer to those places as the "Johnny Come Lately Cities". Places that just 30 years ago may as well have been Albuquerque or Amarillo. They've since grown into giant, vanilla, flavorless blobs.

[EGrant]

Denver and Nashville are pretty great places to live, and Detroit could learn a lot from them, but to each their own.

[Richard]

Denver and Nashville are pretty great places to live, and Detroit could learn a lot from them, but to each their own.

Personally never been to Denver but spent time near Nashville while in the military and agree that both seem to have retained thier identities so far.

Also spent many years in Orlando that went in a short amount of time to mimicking a cookie cutter suburbs appeal.

Thats why I moved,character gets lost in the process and it becomes a situation of just existing as a resident,which one can do anywhere.

It was not my intent to thread jack or imply lessons cannot be learned more so apples to apples comparison.

To me anyways I grew up outside of Minneapolis/St Paul and 59 years ago it was not a nice place to live inner city wise,just as Atlanta was not 40 years ago.

They had a jump of those years over Detroit so it is hard to me to say as a detriment Detroit sucks because Minneapolis has this. Or insert any city here.

It is not to say do not look at how things were implemented and thier success rate long term as it would apply to Detroit.

That would be the distinct advantage that Detroit would have.

[Traveler]

Pic from this afternoon

[bigboat]

Almost looks the same as it has for the past 6 months, except now they have multiple caissons drilled into the ground and hidden. Who gets that job of locating all of the caissons that have already been drilled and covered with dirt. Plus, that cannot be that easy of a job of locating them, clearing the dirt from a rebar cage without damaging it.

[Gistok]

Almost looks the same as it has for the past 6 months, except now they have multiple caissons drilled into the ground and hidden. Who gets that job of locating all of the caissons that have already been drilled and covered with dirt. Plus, that cannot be that easy of a job of locating them, clearing the dirt from a rebar cage without damaging it.

Have you ever heard of MissDig? Every single caisson has been mapped out, as though on a blueprint. I highly doubt they would drill and forget.

[LeightonGeo]

Denver and Nashville are pretty great places to live, and Detroit could learn a lot from them, but to each their own.

I've lived in all three. What could Detroit possibly learn from Denver and Nashville?

[313WX]

I've lived in all three. What could Detroit possibly learn from Denver and Nashville?

To name a few things:

*Regionalism

*How to land a MLS team

*How to not let NIMBYs who restrict housing supply overrun your city

*Road maintenance

*How to incorporate parking podiums into new construction high rises, maximizing land usage and building height.

[LongGone06]

To name a few things:

*How to not let NIMBYs who restrict housing supply overrun your city

That is certainly a hot button issue in cities like Los Angeles, where single family zoning gets blamed for a range of perceived social ills. But, how is that an issue in Detroit? Depending on the source of information, roughly 20-25% of developable land in the city is vacant. It doesn't seem that NIMBY's could be a significant problem.

[313WX]

But, how is that an issue in Detroit?.

I never said it was an issue now.

But if Detroit has any aspirations to grow again, it certainly would become one and it should be taking notes from these other cities to avoid their mistakes

[LeightonGeo]

To name a few things:

*Regionalism

*How to land a MLS team

*How to not let NIMBYs who restrict housing supply overrun your city

*Road maintenance

*How to incorporate parking podiums into new construction high rises, maximizing land usage and building height.

I get all that. Sincerely.

- Regionalism is easy when you have a tsunami of new residents every year and an existing population base that is originally from somewhere else.

- MLS selection.. I would've loved to have seen Detroit land a team. But when it all shakes out who really cares? And is it really a measure of a city's legitimacy? Of course not.

- NIMBY's are virtually non-existent in Detroit-proper. Especially considering the abundance of open land.

- Road maintenance has almost nothing to do with the city if Detroit. What doesn't fall under the control of MDOT mostly resides with Wayne County. And however you measure it the ills on the Detroit area's roads stem from underinvestment by Lansing bureaucrats. And to be totally honest Denver's roads aren't exactly a panacea of smooth road surfaces.

- Parking facilitation: Given Detroit's existing inventory of high-rise building I don't see what can be done around them. On high-rise developments currently in development I have no idea what sort of parking accommodations or coordination is happening.

[313WX]

Road maintenance has almost nothing to do with the city if Detroit. What doesn't fall under the control of MDOT mostly resides with Wayne County. And however you measure it the ills on the Detroit area's roads stem from underinvestment by Lansing bureaucrats. And to be totally honest Denver's roads aren't exactly a panacea of smooth road surfaces.

The city of Detroit is solely responsible for the maintenance of non-state highways in the city of Detroit. While you have a point about roads outside the city proper, what I said still stands.

And while roads in snowy climates will never be perfect, at least Denver hasn't gained a notorious reputation for crappy roads. Detroit has, and for good reason[[s).

[drjeff]

To name a few things:

*How to land a MLS team

*Road maintenance

1) MLS is the equivalent of AA baseball, at best, on the world stage. It's where washed up stars go to play among guys not good enough for the majors. Not having a team is not loss.

2) Denver and Nashville do not have the road destroying climate we have here. Yes the state is terrible about fixing roads but it's also a much bigger problem here than southern places. And, to be fair, the roads in Detroit proper have been improved more in the past 3-4 years than they were in the 20 before that in my observation.

[313WX]

2) Denver and Nashville do not have the road destroying climate we have here. Yes the state is terrible about fixing roads but it's also a much bigger problem here than southern places.

Denver isn't "southern places." It averages nearly as much snow as Detroit and arguably has a worse freeze/thaw cycle.

[313WX]

Denver and Nashville are pretty great places to live, and Detroit could learn a lot from them, but to each their own.

You can learn something from anything.

That doesn't mean two or more things are equally comparable.

[[although Denver's a much better comparison to Detroit than Cleveland).

[Gistok]

Almost looks the same as it has for the past 6 months, except now they have multiple caissons drilled into the ground and hidden. Who gets that job of locating all of the caissons that have already been drilled and covered with dirt. Plus, that cannot be that easy of a job of locating them, clearing the dirt from a rebar cage without damaging it.

Have you ever heard of Miss Dig? Every single caisson has been mapped out, likely in rows and columns, as though on a blueprint. I highly doubt they would drill and forget.

[bigboat]

I'm sure they know where the drilled caissons are located, but I was just wondering how or what machine do they use to uncover the caissons that have been covered with dirt. If they have 175 of them that cannot be that easy and would seem to be very labor intensive to uncover the dirt to continue construction.

[Richard]

I'm sure they know where the drilled caissons are located, but I was just wondering how or what machine do they use to uncover the caissons that have been covered with dirt. If they have 175 of them that cannot be that easy and would seem to be very labor intensive to uncover the dirt to continue construction.

Depends on what the engineers say on soil compaction and what they are going to do for a foundation.

It is about stopping downward forces and tipping over.

If they are going to use a Matt or big steel reinforced floating slab on top of it all,of sorts and the soil compaction rates can support that then they will not have to dig anymore.They do not need to connect the slab to the cassions because the weight will use them to spread the load,nobody will be able to walk up to the building and pick it up.

Look at that construction used in Packard or the Fischer body plant,the columns and ceiling as a visual.

Or maybe different contractors for the cassions and foundation diggers,where they would not be worried about digging that out at that time.

With blue prints they know where they are located,with us not seeing the whole picture it is just guessing.

With the big tubes shown laying around in the picture,they could be just poured pilings and not cassions.

[Gistok]

Not sure about water table... but when they build Fort Ponchartrain back in 1701, the downtown part of the riverfront had the highest elevation of the entire riverfront in the city.

[NSortzi]

Almost looks the same as it has for the past 6 months, except now they have multiple caissons drilled into the ground and hidden. Who gets that job of locating all of the caissons that have already been drilled and covered with dirt. Plus, that cannot be that easy of a job of locating them, clearing the dirt from a rebar cage without damaging it.

The locations of the caissons are all predetermined. They’re not randomly placed. The workers know exactly where every single one is located.