Hudson's Site Building Thread

**Scottathew** · July-09-19, 07:19 AM

Originally Posted by Dmberko11

Obviously they are making progress even if it doesn’t appear like much to the untrained eye

I agree. I used to take weekly-ish pictures and post them here. However, I've stopped because the site pretty much looks the same. However, the Youtube time lapse videos show a lot of progress and activity each day.

I certainly look forward to see some real steel rising up. They've fallen off the timeline published in a 2017 Crain's article, but my amateur, uninformed guess would be we'll see steel beams starting to rise sometime this year [[perhaps late). I also think that the steel will rise pretty quickly if the One Campus Martius addition is any indication.

**southen** · July-02-19, 09:24 AM

I see it as the opposite. I think Dan's health make legacy projects like this and Monroe Block, but especially Hudson's, that much more important to DG. I could be wrong, but he isn't taking all that money with him when he goes.

**ILKSGAMI** · July-02-19, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by southen

I see it as the opposite. I think Dan's health make legacy projects like this and Monroe Block, but especially Hudson's, that much more important to DG. I could be wrong, but he isn't taking all that money with him when he goes.

That's a rather dark take on it, but I suppose could be plausible.

And I agree that the "moving dirt around" line is very lazy, especially when if you take the time to watch a time lapse video or two you can See progress happening.

**David L** · July-02-19, 12:19 PM

They have been unloading steel for the past two days. Progress!

**EGrant** · July-02-19, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by David L

They have been unloading steel for the past two days. Progress!

Is it steel or just the materials for the caissons?

**David L** · July-02-19, 07:16 PM

Hell I don't know, but they delivered more today. Very long beams.

**NSortzi** · July-02-19, 07:25 PM

Whatever they are, they’re items that haven’t been delivered to the site before. Hopefully they are steel beams and vertical construction begins soon.

**SpartanDawg** · July-02-19, 08:03 PM

the last two days they look like steel beams and not rebar cages. very different from what has been seen in the past.

**bigboat** · July-08-19, 06:32 AM

They look like the type of steel they use to make a wall when they dig into the ground and need something to shore up the dirt wall so it does not collapse.

**Dmberko11** · July-08-19, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by bigboat

They look like the type of steel they use to make a wall when they dig into the ground and need something to shore up the dirt wall so it does not collapse.

...aka pilings

At least they’re getting somewhere. Downtown development definitely has seemed to slow down lately. Saw your post on the Monroe block development. I don’t know if we should assume the worst on that yet. It’s just hit the pause button. I think DG still intends to put up office space there, and a lot of it.

**stasu1213** · July-08-19, 12:17 PM

No matter how much money a developer has they still red into the red tape of delays put up by those in city government as well as incompetent or corrupt building safety inspectors etc. Detroit politics had always stalled developments,whether for smaller businesses and retail or the larger massive ones. Whatever happened to the Meijer affiliate store that were to open on Jefferson? Beams were supposed to had protruding out of the foundation by now on this Hudson project according to the timeline schedule that was posted last year

**stasu1213** · July-09-19, 09:42 AM

I wonder if Dan Gilbert being hospitalized has something to do with the set back on the timeline.

**DetBill** · July-09-19, 03:58 PM

I agree totally, the monroe blocks project is “ temporarily delayed “ , after all the hoopla... That reminds me of days before when Detroit developers love to announce some splashy project, pat themselves on the back, and have all sorts of preconstruction party celebrating, and then mysteriously, nothing ever happens. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Monroe block never get developed. For a variety of reasons. I just wish they would stop with the over the hill announcement galas and congratulatory speeches to themselves. As for the Hudson site, it’s extremely slow, no matter how you cut the cake, most other large cities after three years have their projects at least 50 to 60% completed. Hopefully Mr. Gilbert will recover, but I think his companies are all sitting down and re-looking at just about everything. Just keeping fingers crossed that the Hudson site development goes as planned, it would be an enormous boost for Detroit psychologically, and of course , hoping Mr. Gilbert recovers fully, he certainly deserves it.

**Carol Wickham** · July-09-19, 01:10 PM

I wonder how much the rent is??

**Bradley** · July-09-19, 04:11 PM

Agreed. 712 feet sounds good

**Gistok** · July-09-19, 04:50 PM

I think some of you folks are impatient. Mr. Gilbert has what 100+ buildings in his downtown portfolio, and is worth over $5 billion?

He's selling or sold all of his casino properties, and has already gotten over $1 billion. Forbes Magazine has listed him as being worth $7 billion.

His downtown existing properties are either a work in progress [[such as the $313 million Book Tower/Building renovation), or complete. He's nearing completiton of the addition of One Campus Martius. He's brought 17,000 people to work downtown, and is now the citys largest employer.

His 2 largest projects are the Hudson's and Monroe blocks. They are expensive, at over $1 billion and $800 million respectively.

The Hudson's block daily photos and skycams don't lie... and show work progressing, albeit not as fast as some here would like.

The Monroe Block is delayed for arguably many reasons, enough skilled tradesmen available being a really BIG problem. And as I mentioned on the Monroe Block thread, there are a lot of obstacles that need attention... major ones being the dismantling of Farmer St. removal of structures on the nortwest block, and the dismantling of the National Theatre facade for reuse. These are all compex issues that need planning first.

But I see the largest issue as lack of skilled trades. I have a buddy who says that some local skilled trades folks are being pirated temporarily by other metro areas for more bucks [[lack of skilled trades is a national issue). The company my buddy works for gets offers by developers in other cities to pay more for their labor [[as a temporary worker) than is being paid here. So some construction companies are sending out their workers at a premium to other states for more money for workers and their firms. Once those assignments are complete, the workers return back to metro Detroit to their families and continue working here for their construction employer.

So you can be as impatient as you want... even invoking 'Skippers Rule' [[I'll believe it when it's done). But as long as Dan Gilbert is on the mend... I have faith that his projects will be completed, unless of course the economy tanks.

But with a 97% success rate so far in completing his projects... I would give him the benefit of the doubt.

**p1acebo** · July-09-19, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

I think some of you folks are impatient. Mr. Gilbert has what 100+ buildings in his downtown portfolio, and is worth over $5 billion?

He's selling or sold all of his casino properties, and has already gotten over $1 billion. Forbes Magazine has listed him as being worth $7 billion.

His downtown existing properties are either a work in progress [[such as the $313 million Book Tower/Building renovation), or complete. He's nearing completiton of the addition of One Campus Martius. He's brought 17,000 people to work downtown, and is now the citys largest employer.

His 2 largest projects are the Hudson's and Monroe blocks. They are expensive, at over $1 billion and $800 million respectively.

The Hudson's block daily photos and skycams don't lie... and show work progressing, albeit not as fast as some here would like.

The Monroe Block is delayed for arguably many reasons, enough skilled tradesmen available being a really BIG problem. And as I mentioned on the Monroe Block thread, there are a lot of obstacles that need attention... major ones being the dismantling of Farmer St. removal of structures on the nortwest block, and the dismantling of the National Theatre facade for reuse. These are all compex issues that need planning first.

But I see the largest issue as lack of skilled trades. I have a buddy who says that some local skilled trades folks are being pirated temporarily by other metro areas for more bucks [[lack of skilled trades is a national issue). The company my buddy works for gets offers by developers in other cities to pay more for their labor [[as a temporary worker) than is being paid here. So some construction companies are sending out their workers at a premium to other states for more money for workers and their firms. Once those assignments are complete, the workers return back to metro Detroit to their families and continue working here for their construction employer.

So you can be as impatient as you want... even invoking 'Skippers Rule' [[I'll believe it when it's done). But as long as Dan Gilbert is on the mend... I have faith that his projects will be completed, unless of course the economy tanks.

But with a 97% success rate so far in completing his projects... I would give him the benefit of the doubt.

I agree. I think this until proven otherwise, with such a good track record why would there be so much doubt?

**MrChrome** · July-09-19, 04:52 PM

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/real-e...ons-foundation

They announced a month ago that they are delayed due to hitting pieces of the old Hudson foundation. The new schedule is: Block foundation until end of August and then tower foundation starts. Block steel will start when tower foundation starts.

**bigboat** · July-10-19, 05:13 AM

What I have found to be unusual is drilling the caisson, putting rebar in the hole, fill it with cement, and then covering the whole caisson with dirt. I know they need to drive construction equipment over the pit area, but how are they going to uncover these dirt covered caissons. I have never seen a machine that does that or will it be hand dig?

**Scottathew** · July-12-19, 12:04 PM

From Monday, July 15, 2019 to Saturday, July 27, 2019, Gratiot will be closed from Woodward to Library street. Some of the Quicken Loans folks that park underneath One Campus Martius will have their parking temporarily relocated to nearby structures due to the closure.

I can only speculate as to why the road will be closed. I don't think it will be for the One Campus Martius building, as they seem to be needing less space now that the majority of the addition is done.

My speculation is that it has to do with the Hudson's site. Fingers crossed, I'm hoping it for crane[[s) to be erected on Gratiot to serve the site. Although that is really close to One Campus Martius, a major crane for the Hudson's site would more than likely be much taller than One Campus Martius.

**1953** · July-12-19, 01:58 PM

The Free Press has reported that this closure is for Hudson's:

"Gratiot between Farmer and Woodward will be closed completely from July 8 until July 25 for the Hudson’s site redevelopment."

https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...it/1651404001/

**EGrant** · July-12-19, 02:15 PM

Hopefully we'll start to see some real action!

**wzer** · July-12-19, 04:20 PM

I am afraid that because of the Amazon explosion here in Seattle we are seeing a building boom like we have never seen. I talked to several construction workers, all of which from east of the Mississippi b/c we just didn't have enough workers. Consider this, just here in the last 5 years b/c of Amazon they have built 28 skycrapers, are building 22 currently and have 54 more proposed. In L.A. they are doing just a tad less and in Toronto they are doing twice what they are doing here. The shortage of skilled workers is quite real, so don't give in to that old "it can't happen here" thing. Detroit is on a roll, keep in mind what Ford is doing and other projects besides Gilbert [[Packard Plant). Detroit started late so it is harder to get the workers.

**401don** · July-12-19, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by wzer

I am afraid that because of the Amazon explosion here in Seattle we are seeing a building boom like we have never seen. I talked to several construction workers, all of which from east of the Mississippi b/c we just didn't have enough workers. Consider this, just here in the last 5 years b/c of Amazon they have built 28 skycrapers, are building 22 currently and have 54 more proposed. In L.A. they are doing just a tad less and in Toronto they are doing twice what they are doing here. The shortage of skilled workers is quite real, so don't give in to that old "it can't happen here" thing. Detroit is on a roll, keep in mind what Ford is doing and other projects besides Gilbert [[Packard Plant). Detroit started late so it is harder to get the workers.

While there has been some discussion about future shortages, there seems to be little problem finding skilled trades for all of the construction here in Toronto. I'm assuming immigration is the reason.

**archfan** · July-13-19, 02:27 AM

Originally Posted by wzer

I am afraid that because of the Amazon explosion here in Seattle we are seeing a building boom like we have never seen. I talked to several construction workers, all of which from east of the Mississippi b/c we just didn't have enough workers. Consider this, just here in the last 5 years b/c of Amazon they have built 28 skycrapers, are building 22 currently and have 54 more proposed. In L.A. they are doing just a tad less and in Toronto they are doing twice what they are doing here. The shortage of skilled workers is quite real, so don't give in to that old "it can't happen here" thing. Detroit is on a roll, keep in mind what Ford is doing and other projects besides Gilbert [[Packard Plant). Detroit started late so it is harder to get the workers.

These booms start to make me wonder about busts. I hope I'm wrong.