Hudson's Site Building Thread

[stasu1213]

all of these people saying detroit doesn't NEED a tall building and skyscrapers don't matter are getting ridiculous. If you don't like tall buildings? Then get off this thread. Period. Detroit will never be a Chicago in that regard, but who cares? Detroit has a respectable skyline and it'll only get better thanks to Gilbert. Be grateful for these projects and stop griping. Geeze

Get a grip. Take it down a thousand. Geeze. People are giving their opinion about the new development. I was adding to the history of the WTC since it was mentioned. I support many things that Gilbert had done in the downtown area. It was only a few years back that naysayers didn't think that Nike would not even dare to open a store downtown but Gilbert had thought otherwise. I would not be surprised if one of Gilbert's associates is reading the comments on this site and taking the advice and the criticism. I don't care how tall the tower is going to be as long as the residents are not made to split the bill. Everyone is entitled to each own's opinion.

[wolverine]

Were there any renderings of a 20 story structure from the 1990s that was planned for that site?

I recall a mid 2000’s rendering by...I think...KDG, but I can’t seem to find it.

A bigger issue with the steel was that terrible 30’x30’ grid that I had once measured off aerials.

It tends to be a cautious design approach when there’s a lot of uncertainty for future use. 30’x30’ is not very economical to work with when the design is very focused. For example, it’s going to be more economical to construct a tall tower out of concrete than steel. If you build office, you need greater spans than 30’ to build desirable flexible office space.

I think the garage was always a total replacement, but it made sense to have something there with parking other than an empty lot. For about 20 years people have fussed over what those steel columns could supoort but that was never the point.

[Worldsgreatest]

So I say let them live in bliss.

Why is everybody projecting in here? They literally just started on the foundation, it just happened a few weeks ago. How is this slow???? Please explain? He stated he plans on getting the loans later on and banking institutions like Chase have invested hundreds of millions into the city so I don't think that's much of a problem. Also he was given no grants, so there is zero tax payer money going to the construction of this.

As for normal city. umm this building is about the same height as that new tower in LA so the city is definitely starting to push above it's weight in skyscraper development if we're considering normal cities.

[O3H]

Did the FreePress media conglomerate get it wrong ?

Contact the writer and ask if he got it wrong
Contact John Gallagher: 313-222-5173 or gallagher@freepress.com.

"Businessman Dan Gilbert's Hudson's project is in line to get more than $160 million in incentives for the $900-million project, including sales and income tax abatement for construction activities, 30 years of property taxes, and, for 20 years, up to 50% of future state income taxes generated from the new jobs as well as from the new residents who will live inside the tower."

Perhaps Crains screwed it up as well - 2 news sources - is it possible ?

It's the first tax break awarded under the state's new transformational brownfield incentive law. Incentives are for $2.14 billion in downtown Detroit projects
Projects include Hudson's site, Monroe Blocks, Book Tower and building

Let's go 3 for 3 with MLIVE sources - who got it completely wrong - okay ?

Quicken Loans founder Dan Gilbert broke ground on what will be Michigan's tallest skyscraper on the former Hudson's site in Downtown Detroit in December 2017, in a 1.1-million-square-foot, mixed-use project that will cost about $900 million.
Duggan said the development is also required to hire Detroiters for 51 percent of its workforce as part of a tax break agreement.

TAKE OFF THE ROSE COLORED GLASSES AND actually read the news
once in a while to garner some facts, please.................

It involves Detroit residents money, and the residents of Michigan $.

No incentives = no action
The Hudson's store closed in 1983, stood empty until imploded in 1998, and served as parking for many years until Gilbert broke ground last December. That's about 35 years from the store's closing until something new got started

[313WX]

Why is everybody projecting in here?

Who is "everybody?"

[Worldsgreatest]

Those are all tax breaks over the course of decades. taxes that don't exist if this development doesn't happen. not grants. do you know what a grant is?

[O3H]

Ohhhh it's sooooo much better when it takes place over decades - I get it.
No money for many many years enters the revenue of a city, great, thanks

Do you know what zero money looks like ? A bit like the white space below



















.

[Gistok]

For those who were wondering what the Hudson's block 4 level parking deck [[and ground level girder farm) were supposed to hold up... here were a group of buildings designed by the Kraemer Design Group with the intended 15-18 story limit for the Hudson's site. I believe these designs were not for any specific project in mind, but just an idea of what the height limits of the former below ground parking deck could hold. These images date to circa 2005-2010.

[EGrant]

^Looks like something you'd find in Jacksonville next to a mall.

[abraham]

and they can keep it there next to their mall. We got bigger and better going up.

[Dmberko11]

and they can keep it there next to their mall. We got bigger and better going up.

Exactly. That stretch along Woodward will look amazing with Hudson's, shinola and the back corner of Compuware building. Go Detroit!

[O3H]

Will it be the BASE jumping point - [[buildings, antennas, spans and earth). ?

[masterblaster]

I like this project. A lot. But I share the unpopular skepticism whether it is important it should be super tall.



Not always. Usually vanity has a lot to do with it. At 105 stories, the Ryugyong Hotel was to be the world's tallest, but not because real estate in Pyongyang is valuable. Land in Detroit isn't particularly valuable compared to land in other cities either.



This is true, but only within reason. After a certain point, as buildings get taller the negatives proportionally accumulate and eventually outweigh the benefits. The time and distance required to descend to street level becomes a disincentive to patronize outside businesses. Companies are incentivized to provide their own cafeterias, and workers are more likely to use them. Tourists are more likely to patronize a restuarant in the hotel.

This was a criticism of New York's World Trade Center, for example. There were tens of thousands of workers, but the surrounding area saw little benefit. Of course that didn't stop them from building tall there again. There were many more than economic purposes behind that decision, of course.

The vast majority of the tower is residential space, so a lot of your concerns about office workers not wanting to go to the ground level spaces does not really pertain. The office portion will be in the 10- or 12-story structure next to the tower.

[Van Dyke Brown]

January 2, 2019

[p1acebo]

January 2, 2019

Thank you for the update.

[dtowncitylover]

Ok, I've never worked construction I'll admit so an education lesson would be appreciated.

But how long does it take it clear that mess out of there? It seems like it's been months...

[Dmberko11]

Thank you for the update.

Good progress! More equipment and construction materials. Looks good!

[O3H]

Which site is taking IN all that stuff that is being removed ?
Who is making new land out of some swampy marshy area ?

[Scottathew]

Van Dyke, you were at the Shinola Hotel!!!

[Atticus]

Ok, I've never worked construction I'll admit so an education lesson would be appreciated.

But how long does it take it clear that mess out of there? It seems like it's been months...

It is important to note that the mess [[aka the large pile of rubble) is not the same pile of mess that has been there for months.

Simply put, the pile of mess is consistently being removed. The problem is just as some of it is removed, more rubble is added/replaced in the form of rubble from the holes that are currently being drilled for the supports to bedrock. I know it looks all the same, but the pile is constantly changing.

[Dexlin]

It is important to note that the mess [[aka the large pile of rubble) is not the same pile of mess that has been there for months.

Simply put, the pile of mess is consistently being removed. The problem is just as some of it is removed, more rubble is added/replaced in the form of rubble from the holes that are currently being drilled for the supports to bedrock. I know it looks all the same, but the pile is constantly changing.

Thanks for explaining this, because I can see how it could confuse some. A lot is going on down in the pit. I kind of wish Bedrock would keep up a regular construction webpage for this one given the historic nature of the project. They really need to dispell a lot of the false information [[mostly being pushed by trolls) being pushed about this project.

I continue to be befuddled by their lack of concern about the public perception of this project. Just about anywhere else a project of this size would have it's own webcam and at least weekly updated website about what was planned/being accomplished for the week or month. It's also a great way to advertise the project to potential tenants more than anything else.

[bigboat]

I was just wondering again if there has been any cement added to the caisson drilled holes with the cage rebar in place. The top of the rebar cage usually has the threaded end for the huge bolts used to connect the first supporting vertical beams that bear the weight of this very tall building. I'm really looking forward to seeing the construction of the steel framework.

[Scottathew]

Hello folks!

Here are pictures I just took around 11:30 today. There has been a lot of progress on the foundation work, but it's hard to see and understand [[I'm not an expert). I'm hoping we'll get more sexy changes soon, like steel work.

[bigboat]

[QUOTE=48307;563419]Hello folks!

Here are pictures I just took around 11:30 today. There has been a lot of progress on the foundation work, but it's hard to see and understand [[I'm not an expert). I'm hoping we'll get more sexy changes soon, like steel work.

I cannot see much in the way of change, it does not look like they have put anything into the drilled caisson holes, cannot see any cement or rebar cage from these pictures.

[abraham]

I would be surprised if there was not a web cam showing the site 24/7. I know there was one on the little cesar arena job. I would assume there would be one for this. Just not sure its accessible to the public. I'm in sheet metal and was on the little cesar job and will probably be on this job also. Just that the mechanical [[plumbing, electrical, heating cooling ventalition etc...) Is not due to start till this Autumn. Gotta wait for a frame and several floors to go up first.