Hudson's Site Building Thread

[EGrant]

Hot off the presses, a band new gallery from Bedrock!

I am unable to post photos for some reason, but here's the link.

[southen]

It is definitely a very nice development with quality materials but I no longer think its a the type of project that is going to attract architecture enthusiasts to the city. Over time the height reduction and loss of interesting elements has made this a bit more typical of what you see in just about every other city. They really had to stay married to the "zig-zag" ornamentation for the block to keep it from being too bland. So much so that it seems a bit over the top with those elements.

That is just nitpicking though. I am excited to see it completed and to see what it means for the future of the downtown market.

[stasu1213]

I am glad that the library is staying.

[Gistok]

It is definitely a very nice development with quality materials but I no longer think its a the type of project that is going to attract architecture enthusiasts to the city. Over time the height reduction and loss of interesting elements has made this a bit more typical of what you see in just about every other city. They really had to stay married to the "zig-zag" ornamentation for the block to keep it from being too bland. So much so that it seems a bit over the top with those elements.

That is just nitpicking though. I am excited to see it completed and to see what it means for the future of the downtown market.

I agree... I did notice that the 3 [or so] level skyway between they 2 buildings was removed. Not a big deal, except if they want traffic after hours in some of the mid and upper levels.

It is interesting to see all those diagrams with all the people about. Since the block is not residential, I wonder if there will be things to do at night beyond the first [retail] level. I hope they can get people to visit the upper areas in the evening, otherwise it could be just a 9 to 5 office environment that is dead at night.

[stinkytofu]

I actually like the height reduction. A 850-900 foot building right there, IMO, would have been awkwardly large compared to surrounding city scape.

[Gistok]

I actually like the height reduction. A 850-900 foot building right there, IMO, would have been awkwardly large compared to surrounding city scape.

I don't know... the Broderick Tower completely dominates the north end of Downtown, and it looks pretty cool. In a downtown area, extreme height variations is what makes American city downtowns so interesting.

I can however understand that the pencil thin uber-tall buildings just south of Central Park in New York's midtown looking awkward...
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...rks-super-rich

[stinkytofu]

I don't know... the Broderick Tower completely dominates the north end of Downtown, and it looks pretty cool. In a downtown area, extreme height variations is what makes American city downtowns so interesting.

I can however understand that the pencil thin uber-tall buildings just south of Central Park in New York's midtown looking awkward...
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...rks-super-rich

Think Broderick tops out at less than 400 feet. The original Hudson's plan would have had the building be over two as tall as the Broderick.

I get some of the disappointment, and it's kind of concerning the market clearly dictated the smaller building, but I actually like it more now.

Plus, if there is more demand that comes in future years, this will theoretically just necessitate more new construction downtown.

[kuuma]

Love to see the fresh renderings! i still think both buildings look gorgeous and can't wait to see who occupies the retail and office spaces, and what sort of events will be programmed in the black box.

The big disappointment for me is that it looks like they're repaving Farmer St between the Hudson block and the Library. Two two-way streets flanking the library is a massive missed opportunity to ease traffic congestion for a plaza area. as i've said before in this thread, traffic has adapted fine to not having that extra superfluous north/south road open. even making Farmer southbound only and Library northbound only would be an improvement. and with cars bound to be standing/waiting on all sides of this block, traffic's gonna get ugly fast, mark my words.

[Satiricalivory]

It is definitely a very nice development with quality materials but I no longer think its a the type of project that is going to attract architecture enthusiasts to the city. Over time the height reduction and loss of interesting elements has made this a bit more typical of what you see in just about every other city. They really had to stay married to the "zig-zag" ornamentation for the block to keep it from being too bland. So much so that it seems a bit over the top with those elements.

That is just nitpicking though. I am excited to see it completed and to see what it means for the future of the downtown market.

lol nothing about the Hudson site design is typical, if anything it's an extreme outlier. This kind of extreme high quality and high end materials are unheard of in a development in this country outside of the billionaire towers in New York. I honestly don't know what on earth you're talking about. It's bland but over the top at the same time? You're contradicting yourself.

[casscorridor]

lol nothing about the Hudson site design is typical, if anything it's an extreme outlier. This kind of extreme high quality and high end materials are unheard of in a development in this country outside of the billionaire towers in New York. I honestly don't know what on earth you're talking about. It's bland but over the top at the same time? You're contradicting yourself.

Yeah, some people need to travel more. The architecture on this project is on the same level as the most high profile developments in cities like New York or London. Who cares if it's the tallest or not, this is a huge win for Downtown Detroit.

[southen]

lol nothing about the Hudson site design is typical, if anything it's an extreme outlier. This kind of extreme high quality and high end materials are unheard of in a development in this country outside of the billionaire towers in New York. I honestly don't know what on earth you're talking about. It's bland but over the top at the same time? You're contradicting yourself.

lol lmao haha

I said that the ornamentation was added to keep it from being bland. There is nothing interesting about the massing of the block anymore and because of that the zig zags are carried throughout to make it look more interesting than it actually is. Previous renderings of the site, pre-tower addition and the last iteration, all had more visual interest and elements that made the building stand out.

New York, Miami, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Seattle, Chicago and many more cities are all building well designed high rises with quality materials. If you think that this project as it is stands out amongst the projects going on elsewhere in the country than you aren't paying close enough attention.

Quality materials are great but the design has been value engineered or scaled back time and time again and sorry to say it but I find that disappointing. I had forgotten though that your opinion of the design is the final word. I appreciate the reminder.

[kuuma]

the design has been value engineered or scaled back time and time again and sorry to say it but I find that disappointing

i feel like today's new renders for the block are significantly improved from the last round of renders. it's far less blocky with way more interesting detailing on the glass and gold facades than the renders this just replaced. what are you missing besides the nike swish on the original rollout?

and as a part-time new yorker who frequently sees both cities, yes this site is at least as good as any single tower in hudson yards, if we're talking SHoP's portfolio

[southen]

The monotony of the facade. Previous renderings had interventions and breaks that aided the repetition of those elements. The spiral aspect of the block aided in breaking things up a bit as well.

The theater lobby/interior public space was more visually striking and the skywalk, which was a statement itself, helped to break things up and bring further interest.

I like their plans for the landscaping and it appears as though the roof will be open to the public as well. All positives. There are many positives the the design and project but a lot of the things that were most interesting have been removed the further along it goes.

[Satiricalivory]

New York, Miami, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Seattle, Chicago and many more cities are all building well designed high rises with quality materials.

Not on this level, not even close. Go ahead and name another development with all underground parking, a similar mix of retail, residential, hotel, event space and office with an atrium all adorned with expensive bronze metal and terracotta. Oh and a pedestrian public plaza in the middle.

Doesn't exist outside of Manhattan or Brooklyn. I think you're the one not paying attention. Many of you don't realize what we're getting here.

[LeightonGeo]

Given the release of the updated plans I'm hoping someone here with more graphics talent than I have can put together Detroit skyline renderings with the updated Hudson's building look with the 684' height.

There are loads already out there. But they feature the older look, many at the outdated 900' height.

[southen]

Not on this level, not even close. Go ahead and name another development with all underground parking, a similar mix of retail, residential, hotel, event space and office with an atrium all adorned with expensive bronze metal and terracotta. Oh and a pedestrian public plaza in the middle.

Doesn't exist outside of Manhattan or Brooklyn. I think you're the one not paying attention. Many of you don't realize what we're getting here.

I was talking about the overall design of the two buildings and design choices made but I guess the goalposts have been moved to only developments that have underground parking, retail, residential, hotel, event space etc. What other criteria do you want to add to the mix? I have clearly laid out the issues I have with the design but I guess because they are using terracotta all of that is moot.

[casscorridor]

This is the greatest new building to be built in Detroit in a generation. It's going to be an instant landmark. Let's just agree on that. No other structure even comes close!

Also, it's interesting that Bedrock has not included new detailed renders for the tower section. I'd like to see some interior hotel and apartment renders. Hopefully soon.

[stasu1213]

There should be versatile spaces inside the Block part. Spaces that could be used as a theater for first run movies and could be used as a banquet hall. Need something for children entertainment. A building doesn't have to be super tall to stand out. The Fisher and the Guardian building are two of the most attractive buildings in the country. The money was put into the architecture instead of height. The RenCen was poorly designed from the start. The interior was like walking through a maze. Lots of ugly concrete. I garden area of the Block has a better chance of thriving with retail and shop than the Winter Garden in the RenCen

[mikeg19]

I don't think Detroit "Needs to be" New York or Chicago in terms of having 1000ft skyscrapers. Look at the skyline of Charlotte or Minneapolis Vancouver. Nothing there [[to my knowledge) of several 1000ft + towers but a lot of great 300-600 foot buildings that create a dense urban center. If Gilbert would have never said it'll be the tallest in Michigan then we probably would have all been thrilled with the current height/density of the site. It will fit in nicely on Woodward.

[Lowell]

Great floor-by-floor breakdown in today's Free Press.

Detailed floor-by-floor plans show how tower tapers at top
by JC Reindl

[ShadowSoarer]

Doesn't look the tower has gone up the past two weeks, but here is an update for 5/13.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Are these new renderings much different? I’ve never looked too closely at any of them.

[Jason]

Personally I'm happy about pretty much all of the changes to the design that have happened over time. I think in the earlier versions there was a lot of flashy but unprincipled form making. I think what is getting built is better, architecturally.

My main concern is probably the metal on the block. I feel like it could come across as garish and I'm also not completely sure about the color of the metal. It could end up being very 1970s. Or like that brief champagne/rose gold smartphone trend a few years ago. It will depend on how it looks when it's actually built.

I did think the spiraling office floors was interesting, but I don't know enough about office leasing to know if it would have actually made filling it up more efficient and flexible, or if it would have just turned the building into a difficult mess with having so many different levels.

I also think the tube connecting the event space in the block and hotel made a lot of sense. If you have a bigger event using both spaces, having a direct connection above the plaza makes more sense to me than forcing people to go down to ground level, go outside, walk around, then go up a few more levels. My assumption is that they took the common uncritical and lazy view that skywalks are anti-urban, when in reality sometimes skywalks are practical. Unless I'm misunderstanding the nature of the two event spaces and directly connecting them would be undesirable.

[Jason]

Are these new renderings much different? I’ve never looked too closely at any of them.

Some of the renderings are literally the same ones that leaked a while ago, while some of them show the ground floor and the interior in ways we haven't seen before.

The basic arrangement of the block with office and an atrium and dramatic event space, with a tower with hotel and residential, divided by a plaza, has been the same for a very long time now but the specific massing and proportions and facades have nearly completely changed other than a few elements [[the terra cotta on the tower and the triangular metal on the block).

[stasu1213]

I wonder if just the Block was built would it be sufficient for the strip