Hudson's Site Building Thread

**Scottathew** · November-06-21, 11:04 PM

If I had to choose between one 70 story building and a couple blocks of renovated\new 10 story buildings, I'd choose the latter. Downtown needs density, which doesn't have to be achieved through supertall buildings.

We need to start throwing up midrise buildings on all of the downtown parking lots. The Ilitches and Marouns have done such a disservice to Detroit.

**Satiricalivory** · November-06-21, 11:17 PM

Good thing you don't have to choose then and one has nothing to do with the other...

**Scottathew** · November-06-21, 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

Good thing you don't have to choose then and one has nothing to do with the other...

It's true that we can have both. But when you've got basically just a single entity [Gilbert] investing his money, I wouldn't want it all tied up in a single project. If making the Hudson site 70 stories tall means that Gilbert's money wouldn't go toward a bunch of midrise buildings, then that would be a bummer.

More than likely there's a ton of financing that comes from outside of Gilbert. Bedrock seems to be capable of scaling up quickly and more than likely would be capable of doing more projects.

I guess my main point is, density through midrise buildings would still be awesome for downtown Detroit.

**Satiricalivory** · November-07-21, 10:12 AM

Bedrock already did that with city modern. They're not only doing skyscraper projects.

**CR75** · November-08-21, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by Scottathew

If I had to choose between one 70 story building and a couple blocks of renovated\new 10 story buildings, I'd choose the latter.

Yeah that was exactly my point. We have some amazing 1920s structures like the Book Tower, Guardian, Penobscot, Fisher etc., truly unique gems. One brick of any of those has more history and beauty than the entire dumb "skyline" of your average new-money American city [[say atlanta or any large city in texas).

I am happy to keep those old, amazing, unique structures prominent, and to spread out the newly constructed or proposed office/residential/commercial space horizontally so as to better connect the urban fabric. And yes, it is a choice because there is a limited number of office space you can hope to lease in downtown Detroit, this ain't Dubai or Shanghai.

**stasu1213** · November-08-21, 08:11 PM

The late developer Tony Goldman had said that Detroit is not a metropolis and it should not be attempted into being made one. It's a town and should be redeveloped as one. One building at a time. One block at a time

**Gistok** · November-09-21, 01:46 AM

All this discussion about midrise versus highrise has already been talked to death on this thread. It WILL be a highrise building... period.

**Pontiac6000** · November-11-21, 09:38 PM

The city is renting out a number of buildings including paying the State for some of them. Consolidating more at the CCB and put Wayne County back in their old building, along with the tower you mentioned could help. Other poster was right though, fill in ALL those surface lots.

**Atticus** · November-12-21, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by Pontiac6000

The city is renting out a number of buildings including paying the State for some of them. Consolidating more at the CCB and put Wayne County back in their old building, along with the tower you mentioned could help. Other poster was right though, fill in ALL those surface lots.

In the future, residential square footage downtown will keep growing as the the relative percentage of office space diminishes. That doesn’t mean that office square footage must contract [[though it may in the short term), but rather that projects involving residential uses will far outpace those of office uses. This will be accomplished through new residential construction, and conversion of existing office space to residential.

There will always be a need for office space, so developments like the block building on the Hudson site, and the Campus Martius facing portion of the Monroe Blocks will meet a need. But to balance that new office footage coming on to the market, some existing office space [[in other buildings) will need to be retrofitted to residential… and that’s ok.

**401don** · November-13-21, 09:01 AM

Seems odd they're still listing the tower as 912 ft. on their website.

https://www.bedrockdetroit.com/property/hudsons-site/

**Scottathew** · November-15-21, 04:05 PM

Here are pictures from today!

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**stasu1213** · November-17-21, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

Seems odd they're still listing the tower as 912 ft. on their website.

https://www.bedrockdetroit.com/property/hudsons-site/

Someone probably forgotten to change it

**Traveler** · November-17-21, 05:07 PM

Appreciate the photo updates scottathew!

**401don** · November-18-21, 12:02 PM

https://www.freep.com/story/money/bu...ad/6301100001/

Can anyone with a subscription say if there's anything new here. There are some obvious reasons for the delays - a lot of other developments going on, a lack of tenants made worse by the pandemic, Gilbert's health, etc.

**JonWylie** · November-18-21, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

https://www.freep.com/story/money/bu...ad/6301100001/

Can anyone with a subscription say if there's anything new here. There are some obvious reasons for the delays - a lot of other developments going on, a lack of tenants made worse by the pandemic, Gilbert's health, etc.

Besides Covid I don't think you can really attribute anything to a "delay". Once the actually construction started, the progress has been pretty consistent. The groundbreaking was actually just the groundbreaking of the demolition of the old garage, and there was well cited delays with that due to undiscovered things below ground. Since they restarted construction full time, it appears to be moving along pretty well.

**angry_fred** · November-18-21, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

https://www.freep.com/story/money/bu...ad/6301100001/

Can anyone with a subscription say if there's anything new here. There are some obvious reasons for the delays - a lot of other developments going on, a lack of tenants made worse by the pandemic, Gilbert's health, etc.

Nothing super groundbreaking but there are a few tidbits:

1. Bedrock confirmed Wednesday that the tower will still be 49 stories.
2. Hotelier Ian Schrager [[co-founder of NYC's Studio 54) referred to Detroit, Gilbert, and this specific project in recent interviews this year about his EDITION hotels, which are a joint venture with Marriott, so clearly talks are happening but we don't know to what extent
3. The Huntington [[former TCF and Chemical Bank) tower is on pace for a summer 2022 completion

That's about it. A bunch of mildly obvious stuff. You can choose what you want to believe on the 49 stories, and the hotel operator is going to lead me down a google rabbit hole in short order

**401don** · November-18-21, 01:25 PM

Thanks for the info Fred.

**Scottathew** · November-18-21, 03:36 PM

49 stories is still pretty awesome. The fact that it's full steam ahead even through the rapidly changing times is great.

However, after watching the site it just looks like they're moving steel and concrete around! /sarcasm

**Gistok** · November-18-21, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by Scottathew

49 stories is still pretty awesome. The fact that it's full steam ahead even through the rapidly changing times is great.

Since much of the building is hotel/residential... with 49 floors, I have a hard time coming up with the 680 ft. height. I realize that lower floors will be taller, as event and other space, but if you look at the Renaissance Center Marriott Hotel... the 73 floors of hotel averages out to 10 ft. per floor.

Also, speaking of RenCen... when the then Detroit Plaza Hotel was listed in the Guinness Book of World Records as the worlds tallest hotel a few decades ago... they listed it as 727ft. tall from the front entrance, but 748ft. tall when measured from the back [now Wintergarten] entrance. The lowest level of the hotel was not exactly a basement, but it was below front street level.

**royce** · November-19-21, 06:21 AM

The tower's height just seems out of place, in relation to that area of downtown. It should be comparable in height to the Broderick and Stott. Anything higher is just going to look out of place. Oh, I already said that. Well, I guess you know how I feel.

**Danny** · November-19-21, 06:49 AM

I wish that Gilbert built a 100 story building.

**mikeg19** · November-19-21, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by Danny

I wish that Gilbert built a 100 story building.

Maybe he will. He just bought the old Stroh's site on the Riverfront. Throw up a massive tower there along the river. Then Maybe Jerome Bettis or whoever owns the Uniroyal Site will finally put up something there. Or not.

**Gistok** · November-20-21, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by royce

The tower's height just seems out of place, in relation to that area of downtown. It should be comparable in height to the Broderick and Stott. Anything higher is just going to look out of place. Oh, I already said that. Well, I guess you know how I feel.

I don't think so... as someone said... from the waterfront it helps with the lopsided height issue that RenCen presents, and from the north, it wouldn't overpower the city center.

**ILKSGAMI** · December-07-21, 12:23 PM

Checked out the Hudson's Site website today as it was down a couple days ago and noticed some new interesting details. First thing was that it states a height of 685' 4" ... which seems pretty exact. Also noted that they claim there will be a 5 star hotel with 227 rooms. https://www.hudsonssitedetroit.com/

**Gistok** · December-07-21, 01:10 PM

^ Thanks for the info! 64 ft. taller than the Ally Building. I cannot fathom anyone thinking that this is too tall. It would be like saying the Broderick Tower is too tall for Grand Circus Park.