Hudson's Site Building Thread

**angry_fred** · October-20-21, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

I might be an outlier, but I don’t care if it’s going to be bigger. I just want it finished at a respectable height.

Not an outlier to me. Rehabbing all the old buildings and replacing all the surface parking lots with 5+ story buildings is arguably better than the huge stuff, although the huge stuff is really cool.

By filling up the vacancies we are creating more uniform density. Like it or not, the demand for new housing, office space, or hotels isn't going to skyrocket overnight, and by doing smaller developments, Gilbert could leave more demand for others to enter the market

**401don** · October-20-21, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by angry_fred

Not an outlier to me. Rehabbing all the old buildings and replacing all the surface parking lots with 5+ story buildings is arguably better than the huge stuff, although the huge stuff is really cool.

By filling up the vacancies we are creating more uniform density. Like it or not, the demand for new housing, office space, or hotels isn't going to skyrocket overnight, and by doing smaller developments, Gilbert could leave more demand for others to enter the market

True but Gilbert has certainly done more than enough rehabbing of buildings of every shape and size in this city to deserve a signature skyscraper.

**wolverine** · October-20-21, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by angry_fred

Not an outlier to me. Rehabbing all the old buildings and replacing all the surface parking lots with 5+ story buildings is arguably better than the huge stuff, although the huge stuff is really cool.

By filling up the vacancies we are creating more uniform density. Like it or not, the demand for new housing, office space, or hotels isn't going to skyrocket overnight, and by doing smaller developments, Gilbert could leave more demand for others to enter the market

I agree on this. The aggregation of fine grain development will eventually command larger projects nearby. From what I can see so far, this project will be close to the massing of what was there. The tower will be a bonus and will ultimately be taller than the original store. 10 years ago, its seemed like a 2-3 tower combo at 12-14 stories was the best that could be built on this site

**Gistok** · October-20-21, 04:16 PM

Attached is the KramerDesignGroup's 'generic' design. This was not planned, just a fantasy image of what could be built on that site... a chance meeting of carport roofed buildings...

We went thru the height discussion... ad nauseum... we'll just have to see what it is... and be satisfied.

**EGrant** · October-20-21, 08:04 PM

People forget the height limitations of what could be built on that underground parking deck; very happy they went through the hassle and expense of ripping that out and allowing for a taller building.

**stasu1213** · October-21-21, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Attached is the KramerDesignGroup's 'generic' design. This was not planned, just a fantasy image of what could be built on that site... a chance meeting of carport roofed buildings...

We went thru the height discussion... ad nauseum... we'll just have to see what it is... and be satisfied.

U am glad that this design was scrapped. Doesn't go well with the streetscape

**Satiricalivory** · October-22-21, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by angry_fred

By filling up the vacancies we are creating more uniform density. Like it or not, the demand for new housing, office space, or hotels isn't going to skyrocket overnight, and by doing smaller developments, Gilbert could leave more demand for others to enter the market

I don't think you have to worry about this. If anything Gilbert's projects grew demand rather than sucked it up.

**Scottathew** · October-25-21, 12:21 PM

Here are pictures from this rainy Monday.

Name: 1.jpg
Views: 3954
Size: 194.2 KB

**KnnNike** · October-29-21, 02:37 PM

I live in Rivertown and can see the cranes from this tower on the skyline. I can't wait until I can see the actual building structure rise above the horizon!

**Scottathew** · November-01-21, 08:48 PM

Pictures from today. Before any of the conspiracy folks go crazy, I blurred part of the photo due to my credential reflecting in the glass. I'm going to try to remember to go to the 12th balcony next week and get a photo from the same angle I used to get it from during the razing of the parking garage.

Name: 1.jpg
Views: 1656
Size: 184.3 KB

**ILKSGAMI** · November-04-21, 07:17 PM

Found something interesting on Detroit's open data portal looking at building permits. Unfortunately there isn't exactly tons of detail, but it looks like the building permit for the tower portion was submitted/issued on 10/31/21, and lists the tower as being 49 stories. Whether this means submitted to the open data site or something else I really don't know, I'm no expert, at best I'm a slightly educated guesser lol. https://data.detroitmi.gov/datasets/...047770%2C15.49

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · November-04-21, 09:31 PM

We don’t seem to be getting the “it’s all smoke and mirrors and it will just be a parking garage” posts anymore, do we?

**Satiricalivory** · November-04-21, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

We don’t seem to be getting the “it’s all smoke and mirrors and it will just be a parking garage” posts anymore, do we?

Oh we still got them just a few weeks ago. That same troll was trying it on other websites. I imagine they'll simply come up with a new angle somehow. Just as deranged and pathetic as usual.

I guess this official permit gets rid of the hope for a height increase? Or can they just amend the permit somehow?

**Gistok** · November-05-21, 01:58 AM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

I guess this official permit gets rid of the hope for a height increase? Or can they just amend the permit somehow?

I was thinking the same thing... Gilbert did say 70 stories at that business meeting. We can only hope he was right, and this document can be updated. But we are getting tired of speculating... so we'll just have to wait and see...

**401don** · November-05-21, 07:36 AM

Pretty impressive condo in Brooklyn and people thought the Hudson tower was going to be too skinny. Not sure I want to live on the 90th floor though. I'm always leaving my cell phone in my car.

https://www.cnn.com/style/article/br...alb/index.html

**stasu1213** · November-05-21, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

I was thinking the same thing... Gilbert did say 70 stories at that business meeting. We can only hope he was right, and this document can be updated. But we are getting tired of speculating... so we'll just have to wait and see...

Doesn't make sense. Why just add 4 more floors then it would surpass the RenCen

**Satiricalivory** · November-05-21, 01:35 PM

If they're trying to keep it secret until announcement then I guess it would make sense, since the permit would spill all the beans. They seem to have NDAs on everything.

**bust** · November-05-21, 05:22 PM

I'm just happy they're making good progress and constructed a solid foundation that could support a tall building, and I'm optimistic the design will be great.

What matters most to me is its impact-- on the sidewalk / street level, its neighborhood, and the overall economy of Detroit. I couldn't care less what happens on the 50th level, or whether it even exists at all.

Unsurprising: I kind of hate the "supertalls".

**CR75** · November-06-21, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by bust

What matters most to me is its impact-- on the sidewalk / street level, its neighborhood, and the overall economy of Detroit. I couldn't care less what happens on the 50th level, or whether it even exists at all.

Agree 100%. In general the whole concept of a "skyline" is pretty dumb imho. Tokyo has the best urban fabric of any city I have ever been in, yet it has relatively few tall buildings. DC or philadelphia are local examples of that as well. Best urban design in America imho.

**Satiricalivory** · November-06-21, 10:58 AM

It's not dumb, skylines are the face of a city and they make a city easily recognizable and beautiful. Tokyo has several 900ft towers, their skyline is hardly comparable to DC.

This building is so close, it's not hard to see why people want it to just claim tallest title.

**kuuma** · November-06-21, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

It's not dumb, skylines are the face of a city and they make a city easily recognizable and beautiful. Tokyo has several 900ft towers, their skyline is hardly comparable to DC.

This building is so close, it's not hard to see why people want it to just claim tallest title.

I get the feeling that Detroiters have a more utilitarian ethos overall and don't place a premium much on the kind of symbolism on offer here. When there's so much more on the ground that needs attention, I get it. But in cases like the Hudsons tower, I don't think we need to look at it as a choice between filling the base need for urban fabric continuity, and contributing to the city's aesthetic footprint and symbolic messaging. I think this project can and should be both.

Tokyo is an interesting example though. Besides the Skytree and Tokyo Tower, no other single structure really stands out to me. The thrill of that skyline to me is in its sheer expanse.

**stasu1213** · November-06-21, 01:57 PM

Eventhough I support this building being over 700 ft tall I still would say that Detroit doesn't need to build higher but smarter. We have land all over Detroit that a 2 to 4 level building could be constructed and could stretch back almost a city block. Just imagine the versatile space that could be utilized in that type of structure. The Pentagon is only 5 stories tall but is one of the largest office buildings in the world. The RenCen complex is not as huge as the WTC in New York or the Sears Tower in Chicago but it has 6 separate towers that has just enough office space plus an area for shopping and dining.

**Gistok** · November-06-21, 04:44 PM

Washington DC and Paris are great examples of city centers with low rise buildings, and they are both beautiful examples of that. Just like NYC and Chicago are great examples of high rises. Probably the most awful skyline is London... where ghastly designed skyscrapers drown out the once magnificent silhouette of a city of church spires and domes.

Detroit is a nice mix of high and midrise buildings. The Hudson's tower will look nice between the midrise Hudson's block and 1 Campus Martius buildings.

**401don** · November-06-21, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Detroit is a nice mix of high and midrise buildings. The Hudson's tower will look nice between the midrise Hudson's block and 1 Campus Martius buildings.

Agreed. Also the Ren Cen so dominates that it will be good to finally have a building to help balance out the skyline.

**Jason** · November-06-21, 06:12 PM

Hudsons is too far back from the river to be very prominent in riverfront skyline shots.

It's about 3 times taller than One Campus Martius. It would only really be visible at angles where it's not being blocked by One Detroit Center. So if you look at a photo where you can see OCM, you can use your fingers to triple the height. It looks like in the skyline it's going to be about the same level as the other towers on the skyline. You can do the same thing with the David Stott Building, which the new tower will be about 1.5 times as tall.

It would have to be a lot taller than announced in order for it to peek above the riverfront skyline. It's going to be super prominent from other views though.

The real gap in the skyline is the parking lot [[reserved for an addition) to the City County Building. Maybe someday they can build a skyscraper there and consolidate their offices better.