Hudson's Site Building Thread

**Seven&wyo** · September-06-20, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by bigboat

Gistok - I'm definetely not a "debbie downer" I look for some progress at Bedrock's Monroe Block development and after so much hullabaloo and a ground breaking now going on 2 years ago we see nothing. I look for something in the Mid development and again nothing, I'm just so afraid that Bedrock will change their mind as this development has already been scaled back so much since we were told the height was proposed to be 912.' But, I agree progress is being made at the "Hudsons site." I think those forms we see in the NE corner are used to pour a cement floor and then will be removed after the cement cures.

Does this look like things not progressing to you??

https://www.detroityes.com/mb/attach...8&d=1599245551

[/QUOTE]

You know there's, like, a pandemic and recession thingy going right now, right?

**401don** · September-06-20, 11:27 AM

You know there's, like, a pandemic and recession thingy going right now, right?[/QUOTE]

This is the exactly the point. I've been on this thread occasionally making fun of those getting so excited about very minute developments, because after all, what's one more caisson? But I've never made fun of Gilbert or the actual development. The fact is the market has changed, or at least been paused. Gilbert certainly has enough Detroit booster and development cred so that he can be trusted to develop both sites if there's a market. He was clearly confident enough to basically make plans on spec, believing he would have tenants early in the development phases. But the market now dictates he slow down and see what changes are temporary or permanent. Everyone is speculating on that and we don't have hundreds of millions at stake. Can you imagine the response if he completed one of these projects, it sat empty for a few years and declared bankruptcy?

**Gistok** · September-06-20, 12:30 PM

Bigboat... maybe I was a bit harsh... but if you went back and read your last 20 posts on this thread [[I know... why did I have nothing better to do)... your tone on so many of them was not always in the most positive light. Yes this development is slow as molasses... 3rd only to Matty Maroun's windows on the MCS and Ilitches District Detroit developments... but things are happening... as you can see by the the videocam.

But I like most on this thead... the slowdown is to see if additional fine tuning must be done to the building design... I hope they don't drop down below 680 ft. for the tower, and shrink plans for the block building. But anything is possible until the pandemic is behind us.

**Dmberko11** · September-06-20, 03:44 PM

I don't know why but I get a chuckle every time I read your username, big boat. We had a trump boat parade where I live and six big boats sunk lol. They had like 5 helicopters circling over the river too. Okay, back to your regular programming. Don't wanna get too off track because I know I'll get scolded here 🤪

**bigboat** · September-06-20, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by Dmberko11

I don't know why but I get a chuckle every time I read your username, big boat. We had a trump boat parade where I live and six big boats sunk lol. They had like 5 helicopters circling over the river too. Okay, back to your regular programming. Don't wanna get too off track because I know I'll get scolded here ��

Some of us may have a big boat and maybe we also can have enough finesse to be able to boat and not sink their craft. But, what do I know, I'm just a commentator that just describes what he sees and not what he speculates.

**SpartanDawg** · September-06-20, 06:23 PM

The dirt ramp is officially being dug out.. no more vehicular access to the pit i’m assuming! I’m sure we’ll see the construction extend out to the northwest corner of the lot soon

**CR75** · September-06-20, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by bigboat

I look for something in the Mid development and again nothing, I'm just so afraid that Bedrock will change their mind

the Mid is not being developed by Bedrock

**Dmberko11** · September-06-20, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by bigboat

Some of us may have a big boat and maybe we also can have enough finesse to be able to boat and not sink their craft. But, what do I know, I'm just a commentator that just describes what he sees and not what he speculates.

Lol! Yeah those boaters didn't have any finesse at all. Very careless and they sunk each other with their own wake. Too many boats and they were going too fast. So foolish.

I too share your skepticism of detroit development. I like the term skipper's rule that is often seen on this site.

Despite the doomed developments that haven't materialized or are glacial at actually gaining any traction, it is good to see Hudsons moving forward and brush park is really rocking. Gilbert has done a great job with City Modern.

**Satiricalivory** · September-06-20, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by bigboat

Some of us may have a big boat and maybe we also can have enough finesse to be able to boat and not sink their craft. But, what do I know, I'm just a commentator that just describes what he sees and not what he speculates.

You have been making wild speculations though.

**motorcity** · September-07-20, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by bigboat

Looks like more of the first floor is being built in the far-side of the site.

To me the next big milestones for the projects are:
1) Dirt ramp removal
2) Steel rising
3) First structural parts that rise above street level

I'm still surprised there has been no real work completed on the tower side for maybe 6 months now. I continue to wonder what are they waiting for. The cement caissons I'm sure by now are cured and hard enough to take some weight. Maybe someone who knows could tell us the plan.

The developer and contractor told Crain's in July do not expect to see anything above street level until at least April 2021. That was sad to hear because it doesn't take another 8 or 9 months to hit street level, so we can infer they intend to idle construction all winter.

"...eventually begin erecting structural steel that is expected to be visible at grade level beginning in April 2021."

https://www.deadlinedetroit.com/arti...ound_this_week

**Gistok** · September-07-20, 11:06 AM

Welcome to the forum motorcity!

**drjeff** · September-08-20, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by motorcity

The developer and contractor told Crain's in July do not expect to see anything above street level until at least April 2021. That was sad to hear because it doesn't take another 8 or 9 months to hit street level, so we can infer they intend to idle construction all winter.

"...eventually begin erecting structural steel that is expected to be visible at grade level beginning in April 2021."

https://www.deadlinedetroit.com/arti...ound_this_week

It says right in the article you linked that elevator cores will be visible above ground level by December or January.

**Scottathew** · September-08-20, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by drjeff

elevator cores will be visible above ground level by December or January.

Heck yeah! That will be exciting to see.

These are now the milestones I'm looking forward to, updated from my previous ones:
1) Dirt ramp removal [[in progress)
2) Steel beams
3) Elevator cores rise above street level
4) First structural parts that rise above street level

I took a peek at the Hudson cam today [[I have access to see still pictures from it, as they're taken) and they're continuing their work on the dirt ramp removal today.

**motorcity** · September-08-20, 02:17 PM

Lovely milestones but why is it taking so long? One Chicago Square, a highrise and platform project that echoes the Hudson's renderings, is approaching 40 stories in the air 16 months since their groundbreaking.

https://chicagoyimby.com/2020/08/riv...-complete.html

**Dmberko11** · September-08-20, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by motorcity

Lovely milestones but why is it taking so long? One Chicago Square, a highrise and platform project that echoes the Hudson's renderings, is approaching 40 stories in the air 16 months since their groundbreaking.

https://chicagoyimby.com/2020/08/riv...-complete.html

Because we're not Chicago. I was born and raised in metro Detroit and have lived near the city at one point [[back in 2015) and I also lived about an hour from downtown Chicago for a number of years. I've moved a lot. Bottom line? Detroit has been depressed economically for years and hasn't attracted huge developments like you see in Chitown. Oh well. I'm grateful for what detroit DOES have and what it will eventually get when Hudson's is completed. I'm really hoping for a massive project on the Joe Loius site, but have kept expectations low....

**Dmberko11** · September-08-20, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by Dmberko11

Because we're not Chicago. I was born and raised in metro Detroit and have lived near the city at one point [[back in 2015) and I also lived about an hour from downtown Chicago for a number of years. I've moved a lot. Bottom line? Detroit has been depressed economically for years and hasn't attracted huge developments like you see in Chitown. Oh well. I'm grateful for what detroit DOES have and what it will eventually get when Hudson's is completed. I'm really hoping for a massive project on the Joe Loius site, but have kept expectations low....

Chicago is also home to the skyscraper, that is NOT Detroit's claim to fame nor will it ever be. Not a big deal. That doesn't make a city great or not. Where i currently live they have like 30 cranes in the sky. Well the development is salivating, the people are kinda tools here. People are way nicer in metro Detroit.

**Satiricalivory** · September-08-20, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Dmberko11

Because we're not Chicago. I was born and raised in metro Detroit and have lived near the city at one point [[back in 2015) and I also lived about an hour from downtown Chicago for a number of years. I've moved a lot. Bottom line? Detroit has been depressed economically for years and hasn't attracted huge developments like you see in Chitown. Oh well. I'm grateful for what detroit DOES have and what it will eventually get when Hudson's is completed. I'm really hoping for a massive project on the Joe Loius site, but have kept expectations low....

Skyscraper development has little to do with the economy. Cleveland is about as "depressed" as it gets and they've still built tall skyscrapers. Silicon valley should be having a china supertall boom according to this logic. Metro Detroit has also built plenty skyscrapers around the region through the decades.

Also Hudson site is not comparable to any other project in Chicago right now, period. Hudsons had to spend a year demolishing an underground garage, then they hit every delay possible drilling through a one hundred year old foundation. This project also has completely underground parking, most of the time Chicago builds a very large parking podium on their towers [[Trump, Hancock, Nema, etc.) which allows them to go above ground much faster. Chicago has been failing big time this decade, yet still went through a huge skyscraper boom in their downtown.

**Dmberko11** · September-08-20, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by Satiricalivory

Skyscraper development has little to do with the economy. Cleveland is about as "depressed" as it gets and they've still built tall skyscrapers. Silicon valley should be having a china supertall boom according to this logic. Metro Detroit has also built plenty skyscrapers around the region through the decades.

Also Hudson site is not comparable to any other project in Chicago right now, period. Hudsons had to spend a year demolishing an underground garage, then they hit every delay possible drilling through a one hundred year old foundation. This project also has completely underground parking, most of the time Chicago builds a very large parking podium on their towers [[Trump, Hancock, Nema, etc.) which allows them to go above ground much faster. Chicago has been failing big time this decade, yet still went through a huge skyscraper boom in their downtown.

Eh, cleveland is not a good example. I lived about thirty miles from cleveland for half a year. While the key building there is impressive they don't exactly build a lot of skyscrapers. They built a 30+ story hotel recently but other than that they don't compare to say indianapolis, pittsburgh, minneapolis, or chicago.

Density and price per square foot [[market rates), tax codes, and a region's economic health determine weather or not projects of the magnitude that you see built in Chicago and elsewhere go up or not. Also, the kind of people that live in the city, if they're educated or not will draw businesses or keep them away. A large talent pool will bring jobs.

Parking podiums is kind of a thing around major cities. I don't know if you've lived in one place your whole life or what. Underground parking is definitely not the standard. And yes, I've been following hudson's construction since it was announced, don't need to be reminded from a new forumer like yourself why it's taking long. I'm aware, we ALL are.

And I don't know how old you are, but judging by your eagerness to argue and spew all over someone's simple opinion/observation, makes me think maybe there's still room for maturity in certain departments. It's just a forum. We're only talking about cities and economic development. No need to be pushy and brow beat somebody else with your economic degree from Yale. Yes, the last line was sarcasm.

**Satiricalivory** · September-08-20, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Dmberko11

Parking podiums is kind of a thing around major cities. I don't know if you've lived in one place your whole life or what. Underground parking is definitely not the standard. And yes, I've been following hudson's construction since it was announced, don't need to be reminded from a new forumer like yourself why it's taking long. I'm aware, we ALL are.

I'm not telling you, I'm telling the person who's comparing this to a Chicago project, who does not seem to know. This is a forum, other people are involved.

Parking podiums is kind of a thing around major cities. I don't know if you've lived in one place your whole life or what.

Yes I'm aware, underground parking like at Hudsons is very much not the norm in any city.

And I don't know how old you are, but judging by your eagerness to argue and spew all over someone's simple opinion/observation, makes me think maybe there's still room for maturity in certain departments.

Really not sure what you're talking about bro. I participated in a forum discussion like any normal person would. I respect your opinion obviously. It seems you can't handle discussion? Is nobody allowed to reply to you? Why so defensive?

**Dmberko11** · September-08-20, 05:36 PM

We just got off on the wrong foot and our styles of discussion are different, that's all. No hard feelings. I appreciate your clarifying reply and candor. I'm a peacemaker. That's where I'm coming from. I hate arguing 😄

**Satiricalivory** · September-08-20, 05:57 PM

Okay, I'm glad we're able to settle it then.

**ShadowSoarer** · September-08-20, 06:24 PM

Would be nice if they had people working on at the Hudson's site over the weekends. Was recently in Denver [[about the same population as Detroit, but about a million less in Metro population not that it matters, just making a comparison instead of using Chicago) and they are building like crazy, but they had workers working the weekends as well. The TCF headquarters is making some pretty substantial projects, but it doesn't help that it takes almost a year for demolition. The biggest issue is how long the projects are taking getting off the ground like The Mid for example which was suppose to break ground last year, but has yet to start.

**Dmberko11** · September-08-20, 06:26 PM

Of course friend! And I'll do my part and try not to be such a sensitive snowflake on here. No harm in agreeing to disagree on things from time to time
People are allowed to have differing opinions and often do lol. That's what makes the world go round.

**JK313** · September-08-20, 06:28 PM

They were working Saturdays, and occasionally sundays up until recently. Not sure what changed though. Also according to someone who contacted the leasing agent for the mid, it’s currently on hold at least until the pandemic is over.

**Seven&wyo** · September-08-20, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by ShadowSoarer

Would be nice if they had people working on at the Hudson's site over the weekends. Was recently in Denver [[about the same population as Detroit, but about a million less in Metro population not that it matters, just making a comparison instead of using Chicago) and they are building like crazy, but they had workers working the weekends as well. The TCF headquarters is making some pretty substantial projects, but it doesn't help that it takes almost a year for demolition. The biggest issue is how long the projects are taking getting off the ground like The Mid for example which was suppose to break ground last year, but has yet to start.

I have been going to Denver every year for a very long time and the construction has been ramping up for years now. Californians have been flooding the market like mad the last 5-10 years driving prices sky high. It's insane the amount of growth that's taken place in Denver over the years. They did it right though they were slow but methodical in how they grew that city over the years and it's paying off. Definitely something for Detroit to look up to.

PS Tje people who have been living there a while haaaaate Californians which is always funny to hear.