Detroit Should Bid To Host A Major Party Convention in 2020

[Calltoaction]

Skywalks destroy street vibrancy, we will have none of that nonsense in the city.

And Detroit isn't even that cold, we're not fucking Minneapolis.

I'm only open to holding the DNC, the RNC can fuck right off.

[Detroitdave]

Full disclosure , I haven't been to Indianapolis since I was a kid in the 70's , but checking via google and the area around the convention center looks cold and cut off from the city and street.
If you really think about it so is Las Vegas, even though people walk a lot on the "strip"
You have to walk so far between hotels and nothing really to see.
Detroit's convention center it's really that bad.
You have the river walk on one side and just a couple short blocks to lower Woodward with with the up coming shopping and dinning and Campus Martius and the people mover with Greektown , Casinos and all the Stadiums just up the street .
Detroit is very good for conventions in my opinion

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Detroitdave, you are entirely correct. Detroit is very well positioned to host all kinds of big gatherings. We have the facilities [[Cobo, Ford Field, soon to be LCA), the hotels [[many, with more on the way; many more still in suburbs), the attractions [[casinos, theaters, bars, restaurants, museums, architecture), a wonderful international airport, etc. Detroit well and truly is open for business.

[ABetterDetroit]

Detroitdave, you are entirely correct. Detroit is very well positioned to host all kinds of big gatherings. We have the facilities [[Cobo, Ford Field, soon to be LCA), the hotels [[many, with more on the way; many more still in suburbs), the attractions [[casinos, theaters, bars, restaurants, museums, architecture), a wonderful international airport, etc. Detroit well and truly is open for business.

I agree with all of the above but it doesn't change my opinion on hosting one of the political conventions. After the ugly vicious divisive 2016 campaigns I would avoid them like the plague the next go around. It feels like it is going to get worse before it gets any better. The probability of violence acquiring at one of them seems to only be rising and nothing would be worse for business than that happening in Detroit.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I hear you ABD, but I think it's still worth the risk. First, if things are as ugly in 2020 as they are now, there could be massive demonstrations. But things can also be done well, and show off a city's resourcefulness. I lived in NYC in 2004, when the GOP had their convention there. There were threats of terror, massive and occasionally violent protests. But the NYPD and affiliated agencies made sure that the convention went off unhindered, protesters got to protest, and life in the city went about pretty much as normal. The city showed that it can host it big things, handle problems [[even violent ones), and coordinate all the little details of pulling off a big, high-security event. I think Detroit could do that, too. Whether or not Detroit shines would be up to Detroit, not the out-of-town agitators that will show up [[to either party's convention).

[bust]

...I lived in NYC in 2004, when the GOP had their convention there. There were threats of terror, massive and occasionally violent protests. But the NYPD and affiliated agencies made sure that the convention went off unhindered, protesters got to protest, and life in the city went about pretty much as normal...

Three points:

1) The protests at the 2004 Republican National Convention in NYC were overwhelmingly peaceful. When there was violence it was often, if not almost always, the direct result of aggressive police. One of their tactics was to suddenly charge [[or drive their vehicles) into the protesters to cause chaos and arrest people randomly. Another was to use agent provocateurs to create and/or incite violence among the protesters as a pretext for mass arrests.

2) Not all protesters got to protest. There were 1,806 arrests. Those arrested were overwhelmingly ordinary people there to peacefully exercise their constitutional rights. Many others were journalists there to document the protests and uninvolved bystanders simply caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. People were arrested indiscriminately by the hundreds. They were held in a filthy and dangerous former bus depot that had been improperly converted into a prison. Most were held on trumped up charges of resisting arrest or parading without a permit. Many were held far longer than the 24 hour maximum permitted between arrest and arraignment in NY. Fewer than 10% were convicted. This despite the fact the police doctored evidence and withheld evidence that would help the defense.

3) The people of NY are still picking up the tab. Ten years later the city of New York agreed to pay an $18 million settlement to compensate for the egregious abuses of police power connected with those protests. As is usual for settlements the city admitted no guilt. But c'mon. It was the largest settlement paid for mass arrests in history. NYC's final cost for settling all lawsuits related to police action at the RNC protests is likely to exceed $35 million. That's on top of the cost of the enormous police presence and all other logistics in the first place.

There is not nearly as much to emulate from this example as you suggest.

During more normal times hosting a presidential convention could benefit the city. Our nation's current situation and likely direction make it very risky for 2020. I guess there's a small chance hosting the democrats could succeed. But Detroit would be nuts to host the circus for republicans.

There's an abundance of information about what really happened outside the 2004 Republican National Convention. Here's some of it:

2004 Republican National Convention protest activity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_R...otest_activity

Peaceful Protests Erupt Into Violence Near Republican National Convention Barricades
http://www.utne.com/community/peacef...onalconvention

New York Police Covertly Join In at Protest Rallies
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstrac...pagewanted=all

Mass Arrests During ’04 Convention Leave Big Bill and Lingering Mystery
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/08/n...g-mystery.html

NYPD Ordered to Give Up Documents About 2004 RNC Arrests
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/nyp...rrests-6720046

New York agrees $18m settlement with 2004 Republican convention protesters
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...can-convention

Put it on Ice: Chilling Free Speech at National Conventions
http://scholarship.law.umn.edu/cgi/v...ontext=lawineq

$18M Settlement for RNC Arrests Lawsuits in NYC
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local...240346741.html

From the Archives: The RNC Comes to NYC, Free Speech Gets Tested
http://citylimits.org/2016/07/17/fro...h-gets-tested/

Federal Court Rules NYPD's Mass Arrests During 2004 Republican National Convention Unlawful
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/fed...lawful-6664744

Guantanamo On the Hudson: Detained RNC Protesters Describe Prison Conditions
https://www.democracynow.org/2004/9/...n_detained_rnc

NYC accused of creating 'Guantanamo on the Hudson'
https://web.archive.org/web/20051124....aspx?id=14410

New York City to Finally Settle 2004 RNC Arrests
https://www.theatlantic.com/national...rrests/356467/

FBI Launches Criminal Civil Rights Investigation of NYPD Over RNC Protests
https://www.democracynow.org/2006/5/..._investigation

Judge May Consider Inquiry Into Detention of Protesters
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...52C0A9639C8B63

City Fights Efforts to Release 2004 Convention Arrest Records
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/13/ny...onvention.html

NY Law Enforcement Caught Doctoring Video of RNC Arrests
https://www.democracynow.org/2005/4/...octoring_video

Victory in Unlawful Mass Arrest During 2004 RNC the Largest Protest Settlement in History
http://www.nyclu.org/news/victory-un...lement-history

New York City Will Pay $18 Million Settlement for Unlawfully Arresting Protesters at 2004 Republican National Convention
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/new...ention-6722338

'Largest in US History': NYC to Pay $18 Million for Mass Arrests at RNC
http://www.commondreams.org/news/201...ss-arrests-rnc

Illegally Arrested RNC Protesters Finally Getting Paid
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...-get-paid.html

[Hypestyles]

there's a Michigan Democratic Party [[MDP) related convention at Cobo this Saturday.

[emu steve]

"During more normal times hosting a convention could benefit the city. Our nation's current situation and likely direction make it very risky for 2020. I guess there's a small chance hosting the democrats could succeed. But Detroit would be nuts to host the circus for republicans."

Agree with Bust 100%.

We are living in very contentious times, very unpredictable times.

Trying to predict what will be the political environment in 2020, esp. with Trump and the GOP is damn near beyond human intellect.

As most who follow politics know, peace [[lack of war) and prosperity are always key to a happy electorate. It is impossible to predict if we'll have 2%, 4% growth in 2020? Recession? If we have 4% growth will the electorate be content?

Political conventions were USUALLY a good thing for a city but during times of war or large scale domestic turmoil, nope.

[emu steve]

I'm going O/T but I have this 2016 political question related to the topic of peace and domestic tranquility:

IF Joe Biden had run for President, might we have seen a much more tranquil election and not had most of the 'scored earth' drama we saw?

Think of everything that Trump threw at Clinton. Think of all the Clinton scandals.

The biggest 'scandal' of Biden's life was lifting a quote without attribution [[back in the 1980s).

Trump was able to be Trump because he had Hillary to run against. I don't think the circus would have worked against Biden.

[detroitbob]

Trump was able to be Trump because he had Hillary to run against. I don't think the circus would have worked against Biden.

Agree Steve.

[Bham1982]

I wish Biden would have run, but I suspect it would have been the same results.

The alt-right would have pumped out a bunch of fake scandals, there would be a bunch of false outrage in the trailer parks and back woods of America, and Trump would still have won due to all the uneducated, fact-averse Deplorables.

Biden's only advantage over Hillary would be that he's a man. Other than that, I can already see the fake scandals on Breitbart: "Muslim Obama's libtard lackey used wrong email server". The really crazy websites would claim he raped and murdered a bunch of people.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I despised both nominees. Not a huge Biden fan, although he certainly has less baggage than Hillary. I left the GOP over Trump's nomination; on a hundred issues he is not a conservative. The Republican party chose personality [[and a rather regrettable one) over principle. So I left. I'll say what I said when Obama became president: when he does something I support, I will be glad and support it; when he doesn't [[which I suspect will be most of the time), I will oppose it. I don't need to "like" someone to support or oppose them in office. FDR was a thousand ways a scoundrel, but I fully concede he was a very good leader, and I am glad he was president during WW2.

emusteve, Biden did indeed "lift a quote" from former British Labour Leader Neil Kinnock. But the real humdinger wasn't the words themselves, but in that doing so he adopted essentially Kinnock's biography. Your speechwriter can steal words without your knowledge; but you should probably be aware of your own personal and family history enough to know the speech you are reading about your life does not actually square with the facts. Subsequent to that episode in 1987, reporters found lots of examples of Biden embellishing bits of his personal history and education. He was the prototype Brian Williams: he would say things to make himself look smarter, better educated, or that he had a tougher childhood, etc. And he always put Joe Biden at the center of every event he was even tangentially related to. It's more of a personality quirk than a serious scandal. We all know somebody who caught the home run ball, graduated first in his class, drove to Grand Rapids in 90 minutes, etc.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Bust, I genuinely appreciate your research skills, but a few points from my original post regarding the 2004 GOP convention in NYC still stand:
1) The convention & its delegates were not interrupted in any meaningful way.
2) Hundreds of thousands of people were able to and did protest, march and in other ways express themselves.
3) Life in the city, including in Midtown Manhattan, was able to go on relatively normally before, during and after the convention.

Despite those 3 points being true, there are probably lessons to be taken from the various methods of both the street-level law enforcement and subsequent handling of the arrested protesters. It should be noted that the 21 links you posted refer to the same few events repeatedly, and that more than half of the links you provide are links to content put out by advocacy groups, not straight journalism or historical records. Nothing wrong with advocacy, but I wouldn't cite them for unbiased description of events. DemocracyNow! is as clear-headed and unbiased about NYC police conduct as the officers' union rep would be. But if quantity of links equaled merit, you would have hit a home run.

[bust]

Bust, I genuinely appreciate your research skills...

Thanks. But my knowledge of this subject runs much deeper than research. I was there.

1) The convention & its delegates were not interrupted in any meaningful way.

True. At the expense of our constitutional rights, mass incarceration of innocent people, untold numbers of bruises from police batons, and a long-lasting distrust of law enforcement among a very large portion of the public.

2) Hundreds of thousands of people were able to and did protest, march and in other ways express themselves.

True. Except the 1,806 almost entirely innocent people who were arrested and terribly mistreated, and the many thousands more who were deterred by the indiscriminate mass arrests and chaos caused by police violence and other misconduct.

3) Life in the city, including in Midtown Manhattan, was able to go on relatively normally before, during and after the convention.

Not really. Especially not for the people who ended up imprisoned in a toxic bus depot guilty of nothing more than walking to work, going to get ice cream, or taking out their trash. Where were you during those days? Certainly nowhere near the protests.

…more than half of the links you provide are links to content put out by advocacy groups...

You grossly overcount.

...not straight journalism or historical records. Nothing wrong with advocacy, but I wouldn't cite them for unbiased description of events. DemocracyNow! is as clear-headed and unbiased about NYC police conduct as the officers' union rep would be.

I included the links to DemocracyNow! because they provide specific first hand accounts of police misconduct and the horrible conditions at the makeshift prison at the bus depot, from real people who were subjected to it. If you read the transcripts I'm curious what you think is not clearheaded about them. Or is your assessment merely a reflection of your opinion of the program?

Perhaps the best read on the protests and the way they were managed by police is a report published by the ACLU. I'm guessing you'll dismiss the ACLU as an advocacy group. If so, it would contribute more to the conversation if you can point out any inaccuracies in the report. I don't think you'll find them. Everyone else, it's a great account of what really happened:

Rights and Wrongs at the RNC: A Special Report about Police and Protest at the Republican National Convention
http://www.nyclu.org/pdfs/rnc_report_083005.pdf

And getting back to the original point of the thread, using the 2004 RNC as an example, it's hard to make an economic argument Detroit should host one of the next presidential conventions. The political situation in 2020 will likely be at least as bad as it was in 2004. You didn't comment on the fact NYC's final cost for settling all lawsuits related to police action at the RNC protests is likely to exceed $35 million. That's on top of the cost of the enormous police presence and all other logistics in the first place. I'm sure some businesses made money from it, but there were many others that were disrupted. And the people of New York were left on the hook.

[emu steve]

I'm going O/T but I have this 2016 political question related to the topic of peace and domestic tranquility:

IF Joe Biden had run for President, might we have seen a much more tranquil election and not had most of the 'scored earth' drama we saw?

Think of everything that Trump threw at Clinton. Think of all the Clinton scandals.

The biggest 'scandal' of Biden's life was lifting a quote without attribution [[back in the 1980s).

Trump was able to be Trump because he had Hillary to run against. I don't think the circus would have worked against Biden.

Sorry for replying to my own post...

IF Biden had run Trump would have had to run on the issues or at least much of the Obama/Biden years.

First think comes to mind: No email server. No history of scandals ala Clinton. Benghazi? Doubt it would have been an issue. It was always pointed at Hillary.

I don't think Trump could have won in Pa, MI, or WI. Biden would have ran fairly strong in blue collar states.

Ideally [[at least for Dems) Biden would have been a good one-term president and then let each side fight it out again in 2020.

As it stand now, I'd think we'll see a 're-alignment' election in 2020, depending on how this administration works out.

If incomes increase significantly, the GOP could ascend. If incomes stagnate [[or a recession), the Democrats could have a huge 2020 with Trump being extremely unpopular. Trump will be popular only if the economy is good. A bad economy would be a disaster for the GOP and their candidate.

[Bham1982]

Sorry for replying to my own post...

IF Biden had run Trump would have had to run on the issues or at least much of the Obama/Biden years.

First think comes to mind: No email server. No history of scandals ala Clinton. Benghazi? Doubt it would have been an issue. It was always pointed at Hillary.

These were fake scandals, and I don't doubt Trump would have done the same to Biden. Benghazi was absolutely nothing. The email "scandal" was Hillary sending emails in the exact same manner as every single Sec of State in the email era.

Americans are often idiots. There are fakenews providers out there that have millions of people thinking Hillary is running a child abduction/prostitution ring [[Pizzagate). People believe this stuff. They would undoutedly believe it for Biden too.

[Honky Tonk]

These were fake scandals, and I don't doubt Trump would have done the same to Biden. Benghazi was absolutely nothing. The email "scandal" was Hillary sending emails in the exact same manner as every single Sec of State in the email era.

Americans are often idiots. There are fakenews providers out there that have millions of people thinking Hillary is running a child abduction/prostitution ring [[Pizzagate). People believe this stuff. They would undoutedly believe it for Biden too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Benghazi_attack

[Bham1982]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Benghazi_attack

Yes, and? There is nothing in that link that indicates any wrongdoing.

Like I said, fake scandals. Hillary didn't do anything remotely wrong re. Benghazi. Even the Republican-led Congressional "investigation" concluded that there was zero wrongdoing by the Hillary or the State Dept.

But facts don't matter, so if Biden would have run, the alt-right would have fabricated scandals, and tens of millions of people would believe it. You could easily claim Biden is rapist or embezzler. All it takes is a creative author and 10 minutes online.

[emu steve]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Benghazi_attack

Benzhagi was a failure no doubt. But I agree with Bham1982 that Benghazi wasn't a scandal, although the GOP managed to make it one.

I'm dumbfounded that the story lasted four years [[but it ended, "surprise", the day after the election).

I like references to 'talking points' as part of the 'scandal.' Life in D.C. without talking points would be like life in the Playboy Mansion without sex. It is what they do and everyone knows it...