Welcome To Trump World

[Richard]

Actually Obama did out Seal team 6,so that would be a draw.

[oladub]

Jesus Christ Oladub, the military pay raise for 2019 is exactly 2.6% as approved in the FY19 Defense Budget. It took me literally three second to find that information using Google. You're bad at this.
https://militarybenefits.info/2019-military-pay-charts/



So you can stop right there with your whole "Oh it might be more than 2%, I can't predict the future" bullshit. It's not. It's 2.6% and it's been 2.6% since Trump signed it into law on August 13th. No more, no less.

Also, here's the direct quote from Trump:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...227-story.html



So what part of that makes you think that Trump's 10% number was somehow him referring to all collective raises the troops will receive during Trump's entire tenure as President, including future budgets that haven't even been written yet? Because for those of us who are literate [[excluding you apparently), it sure as fuck sounds like he's speaking in the current and past tense. He "got them" a 10% raise, not he's "going to get them" a 10% raise. Understand?

And there's the part where he told the troops that they didn't receive a pay raise in the last 10 years, which is a lie, because they got a pay raise every single year over the past 10 years. Got a creative spin on that one too, Oladub?

He lied and there's no defending that. Why can't you just admit that instead of trying to put your usual bullshit spin on it or without trying to change the subject away from Trump towards Obama or Hillary?

Also, no opinion on the outing of SEAL Team 5's identities and location? Hey I'm sure if Obama did that, you'd have nothing to say about it. Hypocrite.

Aj, Why didn't you just say that Trump could be on track to exceed 10% over a possible eight year term at his present rate of 2.6% per year? I quoted federalpay.org's figure. Argue with that if you want although your number better makes my point. Reading your Trump quote, I can't find the year or period of time Trump is referring to. Did you assume that he meant last year or next year without that being spelled out? Trump has up to 6 more years to get to 10%- spin that as you will. You brought up Trump lying and Obama in post #2271. I responded to that by pointing out that Obama lied about getting our troops out which was a bigger lie than anything you have accused Trump of in this thread. Correct me if I'm wrong but your Trump quote has Trump saying, "Make it" which is future tense. ""They said: 'You know, we could make it smaller. We could make it 3 percent. We could make it 2 percent. We could make it 4 percent.' I said, 'No. Make it 10 percent. Make it more than 10 percent.' "
Suggesting two possibilities suggests that promise isn't even in writing. Understand? In six years, we'll find out if "10%" or "more than 10%" was a lie.

How about getting our troops out of Syria, half of our troops out of Afghanistan, and wishing for all our troops to be removed from Afghanistan and Iraq? That's a much bigger issue than whether Obama went to Syria 3 times to visit troops he promised to remove. Stinging the troops along with visits after promising to get them out verges on masochism to non-Democrats. I was hoping you would comment on troop pullouts.

[Bham1982]

Actually Obama did out Seal team 6,so that would be a draw.

No, that would be A. A Lie, B. Irrelevent Whataboutism and C. Completely nonsensical because you worship Trump and hate Obama, so how could your argument be "they're the same"?

[Richard]

No, that would be A. A Lie, B. Irrelevent Whataboutism and C. Completely nonsensical because you worship Trump and hate Obama, so how could your argument be "they're the same"?

That would be you accusing others of lying while knowing little about what you are talking about.

THE FAMILIES OF SOME OF the 17 SEAL Team 6 commandos who were killed in an ambush in Afghanistan during a helicopter flight to help Army Rangers pinned down by Taliban gunmen accused the Obama administration of deliberately endangering their loved ones for political ends.

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles...ly-members-say

[Obama] personally refocused the mission to capture the 9/11 architect after W. dropped the ball. He has told people what a thrill it was to meet SEAL Team 6 — and the dog Cairo — which pulled off the hit, noting that the men looked less young and fearsome than he expected, and more like guys working at Home Depot.

http://kerfuffles.blogspot.com/2011/...m-six.html?m=1

It shows you are biased and only view your current president in a negative light.

It has nothing to do with liking or hate of
anybody,outside of your mind,and shows that every thing outside of WW2 has been police actions and not war with a defined objective.

It is fighting a political war based on public opinion,so outing anybody is irrelevant whataboutism that you brought up.

They are not little stick men fighting in caves,they have their intelligence and spies just like we do,they know who and what is on the ground and if an ops is carried out it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out who pulled it off.

Afgan rebel’s had bin laden in their sites but were told to stand down because he was standing at a remote airstrip next to a Saudi prince and the president at the time wanted to take the credit for the politics of it all,never mind the US soldiers that died in the meantime.

AJ bringing it up in his/her post made it relevant as they posted it in a question to be answered.

The only thing irrelevant was your response to my post.

[Richard]

Democrat Chuck Schumer on immigration in 2009

“The first of these seven principles is that illegal immigration is wrong, plain and simple,” Schumer said. “When we use phrases like ‘undocumented workers,’ we convey a message to the American people that their government is not serious about combating illegal immigration, which the American people overwhelmingly oppose.”
He continued: “People who enter the United States without our permission are illegal aliens, and illegal aliens should not be treated the same as people who entered the United States legally. Any immigration solution must recognize that we must do as much as we can to gain operational control of our borders as soon as possible.”


Schumer also said the construction of a border wall represented a “significant barrier to illegal immigration.”
“The American people need to know that, because of our efforts in Congress, our border is far more secure today than it was when we began debating comprehensive immigration reform in 2005,” Schumer said.
He added: “This progress includes … construction of 630 miles of border fence that create a significant barrier to illegal immigration on our southern land border.”

https://rightwingfolks.com/2009-vide...n-border-wall/


Flip flopping like a fish out of water.

[Jimaz]

... rightwingfolks.com ...

As if the right wing is all folksy now. LOL! That made my day.

From oxforddictionaries.com:

folksy [[adjective): having the characteristics of traditional culture and customs, especially in a contrived or artificial way.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Is there an oppositional 'leftwingfolks.com' eh, website? ------

I'm sorta championing a movement and site called the 'therestofusfolkalljackedup.org' !

[Jimaz]

I'm reminded of the episode Ship in a Bottle [[Star Trek: The Next Generation)

... Moriarty takes control of the real Enterprise from within the simulation.

Captain Picard finds a way to program the holodeck's simulation of a holodeck to convince Moriarty that he and Regina can be beamed into the real world, though in fact they are only "beamed" within the holodeck's simulation. Moriarty, satisfied with the ruse, releases control of the ship back to Picard. He and the Countess use a shuttlecraft given to them by Commander Riker to leave the Enterprise and explore the galaxy. Picard ends the simulation and returns to the real Enterprise. Barclay extracts the memory cube from the holodeck and sets it in an extended memory device in order to provide Moriarty and the Countess a lifetime of exploration and adventure....

That's what we need to do with Trump. He'd be satisfied and we'd be done with him.

Too bad it's all fiction.

[Richard]

As if the right wing is all folksy now. LOL! That made my day.

From oxforddictionaries.com:

I did notice that the mainstream media does not show an unbiased view and show that Shumers views on immigration are no different then the current president.

So it has nothing to do with immigration and everything to do with resist.

[Bham1982]

Flip flopping like a fish out of water.

You're projecting, yet again. Everything Schumer said was correct. Schumer, like most reasonable politicans, supports border security and immigration reform. Trump and his cultists support none of these things.

Trump [[and his braindead cultists) are racist idiots and don't give a crap about illegal immigration or Trump wouldn't be hiring them, marrying them, and blocking immigration reform which would actually fix the issue. But everyone already knew this.

[Bham1982]

I did notice that the mainstream media does not show an unbiased view and show that Shumers views on immigration are no different then the current president.

Um, because in reality, Schumer's views are completely the opposite of those of the current President? The MSM isn't gonna lie like Fox or RT.

Schumer isn't married to an illegal, he doesn't hire illegals, and he supports immigration reform.

So it has nothing to do with immigration and everything to do with resist.

This part is correct. Trumpism doesn't cares a whit about immigration and is only concerned with resisting modern-day reality [[like demonizing the Americans who happen to be brown and/or immigrants).

[Bham1982]

That would be you accusing others of lying while knowing little about what you are talking about.

And thank you for indeed confirming that, yes, A. you're lying [[you posted nothing that remotely confirms your claims), B. engaging in whataboutism, and C. making zero sense by claiming Trump is the same as Obama, yet you worship Trump and hate Obama.

[Zacha341]

They both [[Trump and Obama) have run up the deficit along with the Bushes. And though it can be argued that the Trump wall is 'overkill' in 2006 then senator Obama and other dems along with repubs voted yes on a form of border wall.

If we could but for a minute extract the Trump factors [[insert the vast list here), most Americans really know open borders in untenable. How can we offer to illegals that which we struggling to provide for our citizens?

Yes, we need immigration reform. But who's really for no borders for America? And why, really?

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...der-wall-2006/

The Secure Fence Act of 2006The Secure Fence Act of 2006
The Secure Fence Act of 2006, which was passed by a Republican Congress and signed by President George W. Bush, authorized about 700 miles of fencing along certain stretches of land between the border of the United States and Mexico.

The act also authorized the use of more vehicle barriers, checkpoints and lighting to curb illegal immigration, and the use of advanced technology such as satellites and unmanned aerial vehicles.

At the time the act was being considered, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and Chuck Schumer were all members of the Senate. [[Schumer of New York is now the Senate minority leader.)

Obama, Clinton, Schumer and 23 other Democratic senators voted in favor of the act when it passed in the Senate by a vote of 80 to 19.

[Bham1982]

They both [[Trump and Obama) have run up the deficit along with the Bushes. And though it can be argued that the Trump wall is 'overkill' in 2006 then senator Obama and other dems along with repubs voted yes on a form of border wall.

No, they voted for fences and border security, which all rational people in both parties support.

They never voted for a gigantic wall, demonizing immigrants and brown people and no border security, which is Trump's position.

Anyone who claims Trump cares about border security is a brain-dead cultist. This is the same Trump who is currently under criminal investigation for hiring illegals:

"New Jersey prosecutors have collected evidence that supervisors at President Trump’s Garden State golf club may have committed federal immigration crimes — and the FBI as well as special counsel Robert Mueller have played part in the inquiry,” the New York Daily News reports":

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-pol-fbi-ag-evidence-crimes-trump-golf-20181228-story.html

[Richard]

The problem is that the current Democrats like spending other people’s money,once the initial cost of the wall is born,it costs nothing to sit there as a deterrent,outside of a few remote viewable cameras.

The Dems seem to view border security as boots on the ground which costs money as it takes more personal and risk towards Americans.

Recent events of two different types of immigrants just played out in California.

One immigrated here legaly and became a police officer serving and protecting his new fellow Americans.

The other one here illegally still after multiple arrests and know gang affiliations,protected by the democrats and the sanctuary cites that they have created killed without a second thought that police officer.

By harboring,protecting and encouraging illegal immigration and circumventing our immigration laws it in essence avocation for murder of innocent Americans.

I think those in the government of California in the sanctuary cities should be rounded up and charged with murder because they encouraged and allowed it to happen.

I think the feds should start doing mass round ups of anybody or city that practices the harboring of illegals and providing sanctuary to the felons,just like they would do in any other situation that involves harboring a fugitive.

Deport the illegals and sense you cannot currently remove ones amercian citizenship,ship them off to the fema camps until they can start having a little consideration for the lives of their fellow Americans.

Problem solved.

[oladub]

Everything Schumer said was correct.

The rest of what you wrote was nonsense but we agree on something!

To reiterate, what Schumer said in 2009, as recoded in post #2280, that you agreed was "correct" includes,

-“ illegal immigration is wrong”
-“When we use phrases like ‘undocumented workers,’ we convey a message to the American people that their government is not serious about combating illegal immigration.”
-“People who enter the United States without our permission are illegal aliens"
-"Any immigration solution must recognize that we must do as much as we can to gain operational control of our borders as soon as possible.”
-Schumer also said the construction of a border wall represented a “significant barrier to illegal immigration.”
-"progress includes … construction of 630 miles of border fence that create a significant barrier to illegal immigration on our southern land border.”

Since you support a border wall, you are taking a stronger anti-illegal immigration stance than I am. I would settle for a high tech Israeli style border fence. It would only cost half as much as Trump's wall. If congressional Democrats and Trump would make a 50/50 compromise by substituting a fence for Trump's wall we could end the partial government shutdown. Maybe Sen. Schumer will get the jump on Pres. Trump by proposing to do just that!

[Zacha341]

Yes, I hear you -- that's the Trump 'overkill' aspect I mentioned in trying to clarify that border security is not new under Trump. As some may be just signing on now to the issue think it might be.

Further, I am not one to be naive to the fact that there are those on the repub side who benefit from illegals and the short-term money to be made off of them. I just know the average rank and file American does not.

And we need to provide income and resources to our own first [[which is now become a right-wing clarion nationalist call). Nope not buying it.

Further, we have our own poor, sick and dying to deal with with limited resources. Yes, right here in Detroit.

Yep, I said it and NO I'm not wearing a MAGA hat, Trump voter, or devotee, but priorities are common sense; lost in the hate-Trump thing.

No, they voted for fences and border security, which all rational people in both parties support.

They never voted for a gigantic wall, demonizing immigrants and brown people and no border security, which is Trump's position.

Anyone who claims Trump cares about border security is a brain-dead cultist. This is the same Trump who is currently under criminal investigation for hiring illegals:

"New Jersey prosecutors have collected evidence that supervisors at President Trump’s Garden State golf club may have committed federal immigration crimes — and the FBI as well as special counsel Robert Mueller have played part in the inquiry,” the New York Daily News reports":

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ny-pol-fbi-ag-evidence-crimes-trump-golf-20181228-story.html

They both [[Trump and Obama) have run up the deficit along with the Bushes. And though it can be argued that the Trump wall is 'overkill' in 2006 then senator Obama and other dems along with repubs voted yes on a form of border wall.

[bust]

Zacha, I think we fundamentally agree on just about everything when it comes to immigration and our need to assist our own before extending help to newcomers.

But can you please stop saying there are democrats who support "open borders"? No elected politician supports that, nor anything close to it. If you believe anyone does, partisan lies from people like GMan are fooling you [[and Oladub too).

Meanwhile, it's completely false to suggest a vote for sensible improvements in fencing is the same as a vote for a down payment on a ridiculously over the top precast concrete barrier that is expected to cost $25 Billion.

If the president were serious about deterring illegal immigration, and if he really wanted to provide better opportunites for our poor, he'd target the employers who profit exploiting illegal immigration. And it would cost much less too. The extra tax revenue it would generate would probably even surpass the expense of enhanced enforcement. Except he's one of the criminal profiteers.

[Zacha341]

I dunno, Bust. Why are you so sure there are not some who do support open borders? Though I would not say all - so I get that. For certain the average person cannot within reason want open borders.

TV show but, but reference is that Lt. Columbo always sought out 'MOTIVE?' to determine the murderer.

So here we are once again caught in the middle of the political power elite pushing us on all sides: 1. The Dem Power Elite want illegals for votes, likewise 2. the Repub Power Elite want illegals for cheap labor = MOTIVE.

Also I look at what people do [[regarding immigration), less what they 'say'.

Example: They state that any push back against illegals is deemed racist, and well who want's that accusation? So in fact you have a virtue-signal mandate [[in addition to the other motives) to allow illegals in without question: Open Borders.

They [[the Power Elite) wont be effected, so it's easy for them to grant full access and make promises -- further overwhelming our housing, medical and educational infrastructures.

They'll not live under that which they ascribe. They will send their children elsewhere, fly private, move further away to more exclusive gated homes, they have private hospitalization options, etc.

With have an administration not dealing with the employer issue as you mention. In the mean time who would not come with a country to mired in contradictions. It's a great gig. For now....

[bust]

Why are you so sure there are not some who do support open borders?

Why? Because no one can show me a single one who does. Can you?

Besides, illegal immigrants can't vote. And don't let them fool you you into believing you can't be against illegal immigration without being labeled racist. I don't believe that. No government official believes that. No sensible person believes that.

Who is racist? Trump is racist. And not just against latin americans. That has been proven over and over and over and over and over again. And the core of his base is racist, also proven over and over and over again. His push for the wall is a rhetorical monument to that. If it were built, a $25 Billion totem to an empty promise to his racist base.

[Zacha341]

Hah. You know I ain't gonna do that 'thousand' links thing that usually starts thread wars LOL! But I read news reports and know several who champion open borders. They don't wear horns necessary or look funny. Often they mean well... Some even think Trump invented the idea of borders!

I find folks that thinking way have tightly dovetailed that to have closed or monitored borders is nationalistically evil [[eh' Trump) and racist/ elitist [[eh' see Trump again along with his deplorables)!

You sometimes see this with younger students in college just starting out in life. A fast google on the 'open borders' protests and you see the signs and banners: https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...30.Mgc7V9hhquY

I grant you this some have not thought it thru. Especially up here [[north) were they're NOT exposed bold-face to the problems the southern states and California already know.

I'll also grant you those for open borders may not all be card carrying Dems either. We have other groups out there wishing to 'bring all down' Hegelian style.

ALSO, note what I said about the behaviors of some leading to porosity in our borders. They say one thing but......

[bust]

Hah. You know I ain't gonna do that 'thousand' links thing that usually starts thread wars LOL! But I read news reports and know several who champion open borders.

Show us one, Zacha. Just one. I'll bet you can't. Oladub once tried to, and he couldn't.

Young people at protests and elected government officials are not the same.

And if you can't, with all due respect, the idea that democrats support open borders is a myth propagated by their republican opposition [[and the unfriendly russians who support them).

[Zacha341]

Ok. I can live with that, and need to get ready to pay a few of these bills online...Hah! But did you read my post or go to that google link showing those protesters holding no-border signs?

As you know I am NOT the back-and-forth into personal-insult type. I pop in -- then I pop out. Life goes on. What is my password to DTE?

I respect your opinion I thank you for respecting mine.

[bust]

Ok. I can live with that, and need to get ready to pay a few of these bills online...Hah! But did you read my post or go to that google link showing those protesters holding no-border signs?

As you know I am NOT the go-back and forth into personal insult type. I pop in, then I pop out. Life goes on. What is my password to DTE?

I respect your opinion I thank you for respecting mine.

I fully respect you Zacha, and your right to have any opinion. But I draw the line before I respect every opinion.

Please don't take it as personal disrespect this once when I don't respect yours.

I saw the protesters in the photos. Please note that I commented on it above.

I've noticed some interesting things a few times I've attended protests. You can have 50,000 sensible protesters but the tv cameras are always trained on the most radical ones they can pick from the crowd. Sometimes the TV crew even tries to incite them, to create the impression they want to project.

There was a Fox News crew with a video camera trained on the merrily passing protesters at the Republican National Convention in NYC, standing next to a man [[completely off camera) holding a sign that said something like "God hates fags" as he hurled insults at the crowd. It was conspicuous because I saw no counter-protester with a message like that anywhere else and they were careless enough to use a camera emblazoned with the Fox logo. If anyone reacted to the homophobe it would have looked like they were reacting to the camera, and to the TV viewers as they watched the news. I didn't see anyone dumb enough not to know what was going on, but I'm sure they found a few. If you don't think that guy with a sign was working with the camera crew, then well...

My message: Don't uncritically believe anything you see on TV. Or facebook. Or an internet forum. Or anywhere else. If we are truly curious about a subject, we need to do our own research, verify with multiple sources, and assess the certainty of the information we receive accordingly. Evidence is the best basis for opinion.

[Honky Tonk]

I fully respect you Zacha, and your right to have any opinion. But I draw the line before I respect every opinion.

Please don't take it as personal disrespect this once when I don't respect yours.

I saw the protesters in the photos. Please note that I commented on it above.

I've noticed some interesting things a few times I've attended protests. You can have 50,000 sensible protesters but the tv cameras are always trained on the most radical ones they can pick from the crowd. Sometimes the TV crew even tries to incite them, to create the impression they want to project.

There was a Fox News crew with a video camera trained on the merrily passing protesters at the Republican National Convention in NYC, standing next to a man [[completely off camera) holding a sign that said something like "God hates fags" as he hurled insults at the crowd. It was conspicuous because I saw no counter-protester with a message like that anywhere else and they were careless enough to use a camera emblazoned with the Fox logo. If anyone reacted to the homophobe it would have looked like they were reacting to the camera, and to the TV viewers as they watched the news. I didn't see anyone dumb enough not to know what was going on, but I'm sure they found a few. If you don't think that guy with a sign was working with the camera crew, then well...

My message: Don't uncritically believe anything you see on TV. Or facebook. Or an internet forum. Or anywhere else. If we are truly curious about a subject, we need to do our own research, verify with multiple sources, and assess the certainty of the information we receive accordingly. Evidence is the best basis for opinion.

+5........