Welcome To Trump World

[Zacha341]

Trump Thinks Attacking Iran Will Get Him Reelected. He’s Wrong.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/...ear-obama.html

On the other hand, not a Trump psychophant or supporter, but I think this crowd would derive some vaunting pleasure if the US is hit again...

Warren, Biden and AOC brand Donald Trump a 'monster' for plotting 'war crimes' after his Twitter threat to hit 'high level Iranian targets'

• Elizabeth Warren slammed Trump for his Saturday tweet threatening to hit Iranian cultural sites saying: 'You are threatening to commit war crimes'
• 'The more the walls close in on this guy, the more irrational he becomes,' Biden said in response to Trump's tweet
• AOC branded the president as a monster for his threat...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art....html#comments

Iran threatens the WHITE HOUSE: Tehran ups the ante by promising a 'crushing and powerful retaliation on American soil'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...taliation.html

[oladub]

zacha, While W. Bush was still President, the Iraqi parliament ordered U.S. forces out by certain date which came do when Obama was president. Obama, to his credit, not that he had a choice, removed our troops. Iraq wasn't able to handle the vacuum and requested that U.S. troops be sent back in. Obama obliged Iraq.

The Iraqi parliament is to meet and discuss Trump's action. Some in Iraq consider it a violation of Iraqi sovereignty. We can only hope that Iraq will order U.S. forces out of Iraq again. We have been there 16 years. Our involvement has cost us $1T and thousands of American lives. If Iraq doesn't want us there - good! We should get out of Afghanistan and Syria while we are at it. If European leaders want to moan and groan about Trumps actions as Commander in Chief and they know how better to manage the situation, they can do the next sixteen years.

[rb336]

If European leaders want to moan and groan about Trumps actions as Commander in Chief and they know how better to manage the situation, they can do the next sixteen years.

If US forces stay after Iraq tells us to leave, we will be what we were in the first place - an invasionary force. Trump has made so many adle-brained decisions in every aspect of our Middle East policies it would take a rather lengthy tome to cover them all. Sticking to THIS bit of stupidity, he has now put the Iraqi government in the position of kicking the US out, which will result in Iran coming in - openly - and thereby given them a larger power base. This is a president too stupid to understand the myriad consequences of his actions.

IF he is allowed to strike Iran proper, he will discover that they are not exactly a pushover; they have the 8th largest military in the world and are FAR better trained and equipped than Iraq was.

Their new radar systems are capable of detecting stealth, and they have long-range thermal detection systems and missiles. They have shot down drones and, reportedly, Israeli F-35s and cruise missiles. They also have extremely high velocity missiles easily capable of hitting Tel Aviv, Riyadh, Qatar, etc.

[oladub]

[[Trump) has now put the Iraqi government in the position of kicking the US out, which will result in Iran coming in - openly - and thereby given them a larger power base. This is a president too stupid to understand the myriad consequences of his actions.

I don't understand your position. I'm all for getting the U.S. out of Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria ASAP. Sunnis and Shiites have been at it for 1,300 years. There is no point in being in the middle of that. We also don't need Iraqi or Iranian oil anymore. You seem to suggest that if we did leave, it will give Iran a bigger power base and that infers we shouldn't leave. Then, in your next post, you criticize Trump for indicating he wants to stay in Iraq.

When the deadline for U.S. troops to leave Iraq was coming due, Obama also tried to negotiate having them stay longer. Iraq still wanted U.S. troops out so Obama did remove them. I hope Trump will do the same. What choice does he have? The only presidential candidate who is vocally opposing interventionism is Tulsi Gabbard although Bernie, to his credit, did once vote to not get involved in Iraq.

I doubt that Trump will get anything back for 13 years of building up Iraq. We probably won't get any incentive cash back from Iran either after Iran scrapped its end of the nuclear agreement.

[aj3647]

I doubt that Trump will get anything back for 13 years of building up Iraq. We probably won't get any incentive cash back from Iran either after Iran scrapped its end of the nuclear agreement.

You mean they scrapped their end of the deal that Trump scrapped all the way back in May?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44045957

How terribly unfair of them not to continue to follow a deal that Trump scrapped first!

To the extent that the U.S. reduces its presence in the mid-east, tensions between Iran and the U.S. should lessen.

And yet...

750 soldiers with 82nd Airborne headed for CENTCOM, additional 4,000 troops expected to deploy as Iran tensions mount

https://www.militarytimes.com/flashp...ensions-mount/

So let's look at the end result here:
-THOUSANDS MORE American troops into harm's way
-Whereas once Iraq was a dangerous place for Americans to be, now the entire Middle East [[and indeed anywhere within Iranian ballistic missile range) is now a dangerous place to be for Americans.

Win, Oladub? Trump's making things better in your opinion, is he? Next up comes retaliatory U.S. missile strikes and airstrikes on Iran itself. You shit yourself with rage over Obama and Libya, and here you are making fucking excuses for a conflict that will be 100x worse.

[oladub]

You mean they scrapped their end of the deal that Trump scrapped all the way back in May?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44045957

How terribly unfair of them not to continue to follow a deal that Trump scrapped first!

"deal". I credit you for using the right word. It was not a treaty. Neither was the Paris Accord. They were flim flam Obama deals pretending to be treaties. Like two of the three little piggies, Obama came up with a flimsy deal. Even Iran isn't pretending to honor it anymore.

And yet...

750 soldiers with 82nd Airborne headed for CENTCOM, additional 4,000 troops expected to deploy as Iran tensions mount

https://www.militarytimes.com/flashp...ensions-mount/

So let's look at the end result here:
-THOUSANDS MORE American troops into harm's way
-Whereas once Iraq was a dangerous place for Americans to be, now the entire Middle East [[and indeed anywhere within Iranian ballistic missile range) is now a dangerous place to be for Americans.

Win, Oladub? Trump's making things better in your opinion, is he? Next up comes retaliatory U.S. missile strikes and airstrikes on Iran itself. You shit yourself with rage over Obama and Libya, and here you are making fucking excuses for a conflict that will be 100x worse.

I've always been for pulling out of Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan. That's my record here. Your record is to bitch and bash Trump. Why don't you just say that you also want the U.S. to pull out ASAP?

Both parties supported the Iraq war. Senators Biden, Kerry, and Clinton were among those who voted to give Bush the their power to decide whether to go to war in Iraq. We are still there almost 17 years later thanks to anyone who supported those politicians. Trump did not start the Iraq War. They went in because of imaginary WMDs. Then it was ISIS. Now we are caught up in a 1,300 year old conflict between Sunnis and Shiites. Would you vote for Biden? Did you vote for Hillary? I would like to imagine that you support those Americans in the Embassy and air bases who are being pelted with missiles.

When did I say "win"? You are making stuff up again. I said "out". There is no way we were ever going to win over there.

Thank you for your armchair military advice. You should send
it to the Joint Chiefs. I'm sure they would like your advice on how to secure the Embassy and air bases without more defensive capacity.

Although you haven't expressed any ideas about how the U.S. should exit, it that's even what you want, I will. Since the Iraqi Parliament resolution requests that the U.S. should leave, then that is what we should do. We shouldn't remain there as unwelcome guests. To do an orderly retreat, we should do whatever is necessary toward that end as determined by the Joint Chiefs. Dangers include the possibilities of the Iranian army invading Iraq and Iraqis turning on us. No matter what happens, China wins. Every rocket we send into Iran comes out of our kids' futures but umbrellas won't be enough to stop Iranian missiles from pouring in.