Welcome To Trump World

[oladub]

There's no "if". None. Trump has already repeatedly been found to hire illegals, by the hundreds. Trump, in court, has admitted culpability. So why would you support someone who brazenly hires illegals if you care about illegal immigration? The answer is you don't, you just hate brown people and want to make their lives miserable.


What's your point? You're fine with illegals practicing immigration fraud?

No one denies that Melania is currently a legal citizen, but the fact is that she was an illegal who obtained legal residency via fraud. She claimed to have never worked in the U.S. which is a lie. She came illegally the same way 90% of illegals come- via plane, under tourist visa, then started working off the books.



Absurd, it's not a "leftist talking point", it's reality, confirmed by WSJ and other conservative news sources. It's as much a "leftist talking point" as saying water is wet or the Pope is Catholic.

There's no debate she was working under a tourist visa, as her pay stubs have been published. Unless you support her deportation [[no statute of appeals on immigration fraud) then it's quite clear you don't give a damn about immigration laws.

In your mind, "there is no "if"". Write a letter to your Congress person, if you have some proof. I'm still waiting for your, anyone's proof, Judge Kavenaugh did all those bad things in high school. However, as recently as this week, an illegal alien was caught working for one of the Trump businesses. All you have to do is prove that Trump had a hand in hiring this person and did so knowing that he/she was illegal. Short of that, send the illegal alien packing and fine the Trump Corporation and imprison anyone directly responsible for negligence or knowingly hiring illegals. You would support the latter, right? Democratic politicians more often have the advantage in never having run a business or much of anything besides government agencies.

What immigration fraud? The courts have already ruled on Melania. You are a little too late but ICE did catch 3,000 illegal border crossers one day this week if you want to be relevant. Melania has been a permanent resident of the U.S. since 2001. Trump became President 15 years later. Prove the fraud if the statute of limitations hasn't run out and you'll have it made. Until you do, you are no better than birthers asserting Obama was born in Kenya.

It's pretty clear you don't care about immigration laws and resort to obfuscation.

[Canadian Visitor]

......Figure out how they, or better yet, their employers, could pay back a few hundred thousand dollars per illegal family and get back to us.

With all due respect, you're simply not going to get that, nor mass deportation. Completely apart from whether you're 'right'; completely apart from what you want or wish.

Its simply not going to happen.

Pragmatism is not some evil where you settle for getting 1/2 of what you want, where 100% what an actual option.

Trump isn't going to give you mass deportation. No Republican or Democrat ever has [[or will).

Pragmatism is understanding your reality and making the best of the situation, getting what you CAN get.

To do that you have to put something out there with which a majority, including pols might agree.

That, self-evidently is a rather big challenge.

But standing on principle waiting for everyone else to say 'yes sir, we'll do it your way', will get you exactly what you have now. Nothing.

[oladub]

So apparently the claims that the immigration issue is all the fault of the "left" is as much bullshit as all the other bullshit laid at our feet. I say I agree with tightening borders, and all you can do is ridicule me for not wanting to deport people who have lived her and been good citizens and tearing them away from their legal children. I should know better than to try to reason or offer solutions to someone on "the right".
I can't see there being any kind of cooperation if the right can't even give an inch on deporting everyone and locking the doors. So much for the great melting pot.

I don't think that I all I did was ridicule you "for not wanting to deport people who have lived her and been good citizens and tearing them away from their legal children." I did, however, offer some reasons, even using numbers, why I disagreed with parts of your post. Illegal non-citizens are not even U.S. citizens let alone good citizens as you claimed. Nowhere did I suggest removing children from their parents. Illegal non-citizens' options include leaving their anchor babies with close relatives or taking their children with them. Neither is anyone suggesting locking the doors. Congress was given the power to establish an uniform naturalization process and to defend our borders. Anyone who breaks laws, including immigration laws, is subject to consequences. Legal aliens apply for visas and citizenship without breaking laws. There is still that option.

[oladub]

With all due respect, you're simply not going to get that, nor mass deportation. Completely apart from whether you're 'right'; completely apart from what you want or wish.

Its simply not going to happen.

Pragmatism is not some evil where you settle for getting 1/2 of what you want, where 100% what an actual option.

Trump isn't going to give you mass deportation. No Republican or Democrat ever has [[or will).

Pragmatism is understanding your reality and making the best of the situation, getting what you CAN get.

To do that you have to put something out there with which a majority, including pols might agree.

That, self-evidently is a rather big challenge.

But standing on principle waiting for everyone else to say 'yes sir, we'll do it your way', will get you exactly what you have now. Nothing.

Trying to compromise legal and illegal is like being just a little bit pregnant or equating pragmatic rolling stops with full stops. A succession of thesis, anti-thesis, synthesis solutions move the yard sticks down the field for its advocates. Old Testament prophets might have disagreed with you. Reagan tried doing it your way allowing 3M illegal aliens amnesty in return for promises of border security that never materialized. He failed because the other side, including some Republicans, fell short of its promises. Eisenhower and Truman did better. Under Truman, when Democrats still prioritized American workers over foreign and corporate interests, "more than 127,000 were formally deported and more than 3.2 million left voluntarily rather than face deportation — a total of nearly 3.4 million." That amounted to de facto "mass deportation". It was accomplished by Democrats.

The alternative might be to respond to the two groups of would be migrants in Tijuana demanding $50,000 per person [[thesis) with zero compensation [[anti-thesis) if President Trump refuses to allow them in before compromising and handing them $25,000 per person [[synthesis).

[Maof]

For all you people screaming "Impeach Trump", be careful what you wish for, for it leads to:

President and theocratic dictator Michael Pence.

Oh the horror!

[Bham1982]

In your mind, "there is no "if"".

Exhibit is why everyone calls the Trump base a cult. It's fact-averse cult worship. Reality is irrelevent.

I'm not gonna waste any more time trying to "prove" to you that water is wet, the sky is blue or the Pope is Catholic. All non-cultists know about the Trumps and immigration, the court records re. Trump's mass-hiring of illegals and Melania's employment stubs while under tourist visa are publicly accessible, and all non-cultists know exactly what you're referring to re. "illegals".

You're a fact-averse racist and Trump could torture babies on livefeed and it wouldn't change your beliefs one iota. The only way to fix this issue is for all decent people to marginalize the cult, and remember who stood up for this vile crook and against the country and common decency once Trump is removed and tossed into federal prison.

[oladub]

Exhibit is why everyone calls the Trump base a cult. It's fact-averse cult worship. Reality is irrelevent.

I'm not gonna waste any more time trying to "prove" to you that water is wet, the sky is blue or the Pope is Catholic. All non-cultists know about the Trumps and immigration, the court records re. Trump's mass-hiring of illegals and Melania's employment stubs while under tourist visa are publicly accessible, and all non-cultists know exactly what you're referring to re. "illegals".

You're a fact-averse racist and Trump could torture babies on livefeed and it wouldn't change your beliefs one iota. The only way to fix this issue is for all decent people to marginalize the cult, and remember who stood up for this vile crook and against the country and common decency once Trump is removed and tossed into federal prison.

Bham, Good choice. You would do well to stop trying to "prove" anything until you are capable of employing things like numbers and facts as substitutes for your cliches, name calling and talking points.

SENATOR SCHUMER before he sold out: “First, illegal immigration is wrong,” Schumer declared, “and a primary goal of comprehensive immigration reform must be to dramatically curtail future illegal immigration.” [[6/24/09)

[aj3647]

In keeping with the theme of "every single day brings a new revelation into the organized criminal enterprise that is the Trump Administration", here's today's entry: The U.S. Attorney's Office has launched an active criminal investigation of Trump's Inauguration Committee concerning whether they accepted illegal foreign donations as part of a "pay to play" scheme.

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...rump-super-pac

Also under criminal investigation is a pro-Trump Super PAC called "Rebuilding America Now" that raised $23 million for Trump's campaign.

This latest investigation was sparked as a result of evidence obtained in the raid on Michael Cohen's office, which included a recorded conversation of him discussing the misuse of Inauguration committee funds with a former aide of Melania Trump. Of note, the person who managed the operations of the Trump Inauguration was none other than convicted felon and current cooperating witness, Rick Gates. So there's that...

What will tomorrow bring?

[GMan]

In keeping with the theme of "every single day brings a new revelation into the organized criminal enterprise that is the Trump Administration", here's today's entry: The U.S. Attorney's Office has launched an active criminal investigation of Trump's Inauguration Committee concerning whether they accepted illegal foreign donations as part of a "pay to play" scheme.

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...rump-super-pac

.........................

What will tomorrow bring?

Peace and prosperity. Oh wait, then the globalists will have lost their power over the masses.

[Richard]

Kinda like GE useing the US government as a mafia strong arm in order to dominate the turbine and energy markets worldwide?

[Bham1982]

What will tomorrow bring?

Well today also brings reports of the NJ Attorney General opening a criminal investigation of Trump properties in NJ due to hiring and exploiting of illegals. Four illegals have come forward indicating they were abused at Trump National Golf Club.

And Chris Christie, who probably couldn't get a job as a Subway Sandwich Artist these days following his disastrous governorship in NJ, turned down Trump's Chief-of-Staff job. I guess he's not too keen on federal prison.

[aj3647]

Well today also brings reports of the NJ Attorney General opening a criminal investigation of Trump properties in NJ due to hiring and exploiting of illegals. Four illegals have come forward indicating they were abused at Trump National Golf Club.

And Chris Christie, who probably couldn't get a job as a Subway Sandwich Artist these days following his disastrous governorship in NJ, turned down Trump's Chief-of-Staff job. I guess he's not too keen on federal prison.

And this, the Senate Intelligence Committee has referred "several" cases of suspected perjury in their Russian investigation probe to Robert Mueller's office for criminal investigation.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...ing-to-mueller

One of the names often floated of someone who lied his ass off blatantly under oath before Congress is none other than Donald Trump Jr, in his testimony before the Senate in December 2017. Although the Republican-led Senate has thus far refused to publicly release Trump Jr's testimony, those who were privy to it have indicated that some of what he said is disproven by government evidence collected in the Cohen case.

I'm thinking Donny Jr better enjoy this Christmas, because by the time next Christmas rolls around, he's going to be under felony indictment.

[aj3647]

However, as recently as this week, an illegal alien was caught working for one of the Trump businesses. All you have to do is prove that Trump had a hand in hiring this person and did so knowing that he/she was illegal. Short of that, send the illegal alien packing and fine the Trump Corporation and imprison anyone directly responsible for negligence or knowingly hiring illegals.

Not one illegal alien, oladub, MANY.

https://thehill.com/latino/421459-nj...harassment-and

The Daily News reports that all five women are or were formerly undocumented immigrants, and they also said their supervisor at the golf club threatened to report them to federal authorities if they spoke out about any wrongdoing.

At least five, and most likely many many more. And the management of Trump's Bedminster Golf Club knew full well they were not here legally. For one, their supervisor threatened to dime them out to the feds if they talked to anyone. Secondly, since these women were not here legally, they could not get a driver's license. So they all had to be driven to work in a carpool by another Bedminster employee. There's no way management didn't know these people were not legally here.

But you're right, Trump didn't hire them directly. Bully for you. Still not a good look that Trump's signature golf club that he spends A LOT of time at has a bunch of illegal immigrants working at it with the full knowledge of that club's management, does it?

That's OK though Oladub, I'm sure you'd be full of excuses and justifications for this if it were a business owned by Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton that was knowingly employing undocumented workers. Because you're not a hypocrite or anything, so you'd be just as cool with it. No blame to Hillary or Barack, you'd be there leading the charge in their defense of "they didn't know!"

Anyways, just one more business connected to Trump that is under an active criminal investigation. I can't keep track into all of the criminal investigations into Trump or his businesses or his associates anymore. There's too many. Dozens of them. But hey, I'm sure he's squeaky clean. Pure as the driven snow. Everything we know about this man's life to date indicates he is of the highest moral and ethical values, above reproach. Saintly even. So I'm sure none of the dozens of investigations into him will eventually lead to his inevitable downfall and you won't end up looking like a putz for having carried his water all this time. No way that happens! Best of luck to you in 2019, this is YOUR year Oladub!

[oladub]

Not one illegal alien, oladub, MANY.

https://thehill.com/latino/421459-nj...harassment-and

At least five, and most likely many many more. And the management of Trump's Bedminster Golf Club knew full well they were not here legally. For one, their supervisor threatened to dime them out to the feds if they talked to anyone. Secondly, since these women were not here legally, they could not get a driver's license. So they all had to be driven to work in a carpool by another Bedminster employee. There's no way management didn't know these people were not legally here.

But you're right, Trump didn't hire them directly. Bully for you. Still not a good look that Trump's signature golf club that he spends A LOT of time at has a bunch of illegal immigrants working at it with the full knowledge of that club's management, does it?

That's OK though Oladub, I'm sure you'd be full of excuses and justifications for this if it were a business owned by Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton that was knowingly employing undocumented workers. Because you're not a hypocrite or anything, so you'd be just as cool with it. No blame to Hillary or Barack, you'd be there leading the charge in their defense of "they didn't know!"

Anyways, just one more business connected to Trump that is under an active criminal investigation. I can't keep track into all of the criminal investigations into Trump or his businesses or his associates anymore. There's too many. Dozens of them. But hey, I'm sure he's squeaky clean. Pure as the driven snow. Everything we know about this man's life to date indicates he is of the highest moral and ethical values, above reproach. Saintly even. So I'm sure none of the dozens of investigations into him will eventually lead to his inevitable downfall and you won't end up looking like a putz for having carried his water all this time. No way that happens! Best of luck to you in 2019, this is YOUR year Oladub!

Make it not one but five illegal aliens! Send them home. Jail and fine any one responsible for their hiring. Then move on and get rid of the other 10-30M illegal aliens, an even bigger number than five, and jail and fine their employers. I'm glad you're getting mad about illegal immigration and the hiring of cheap foreign labor. You're with me on this aren't you aj? I mean, you obviously want the same equal justice for Trump companies' illegals and employers as for other illegals and employers. Your specific mention of these five illegal employees isn't just about your coup is it? Don't worry about Obama and Hillary. They never had brick and mortar business payrolls. Their foundations hire expensive lawyers, not hourly workers.

[313WX]

I remember telling aj3647 specifically that Obamacare was, in effect, repealed without the individual mandate and "Mr. Know It All" then attacked saying I was wrong...

And what do you know, I was right.

Federal judge in Texas strikes down Affordable Care Act

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/14/polit...uit/index.html

[313WX]

The only hope now is that Roberts upholds his previous ruling, if the Supreme Court hears the case and the appeals court doesn't overturn the lower court's ruling first.

But I do recall it was only the individual mandate that the Supreme Court ruled on and held up before [[making it a "tax" law).

[canuck]

The only hope now is that Roberts upholds his previous ruling, if the Supreme Court hears the case and the appeals court doesn't overturn the lower court's ruling first.

But I do recall it was only the individual mandate that the Supreme Court ruled on and held up before [[making it a "tax" law).

No worry, the money you save on health care now, you'll be able to spend on free breakfast-lunch for your school kids [[Richard's recipe for a healthy prosperous nation).

[Richard]

No worry, the money you save on health care now, you'll be able to spend on free breakfast-lunch for your school kids [[Richard's recipe for a healthy prosperous nation).

What determines a healthy prosperous nation?

There is no argument that children going through their growing and learning years need proper nutrition.

The solution of giving the parents $6,000 a year in cash to cover their lunches is class warfare and subsidized poverty.

Children do not choose their parents and if their parents have a drug or alcohol problem or even living month to month are they going to put that $6,000 in a cupboard and dole it out every morning for the child’s lunch?

Then to make it even worse and say the children are not allowed to stay on school property during the lunch period,no problem if one has the means,but what happens when both parents work and the child has no where to go? They just hang out on the corner?

So the ones with means eat and the others are on their own.

Just like Obama care,people cannot afford health care so you are going to fine them for not being able to afford it.

Both cases are a form of punishment towards those less fortunate.

It was sold as providing healthcare for the poor but in our state anyways if you make under X amount per year there is Medicaid.

And called unconstitutional from day one,even by some of the architects that put it together.

The whole example of Canada being the ONLY country in the G8 that does not have a national school lunch program was about that there is no country that is a blueprint for another country to achieve perfection.

There is no country that can claim superiority over another one because they have this and we do not,all countries have their dark sides.

But sometimes people have a tendency in discussions to focus on a particular word and obsess on that,when we discuss an entire country there is a much bigger and complex picture involved.

Healthcare in America must have at least 5 million little pieces involved that make up the big picture and to say because it works in Tim-buc-to with a population of 5 million so it should be able to work in America is not even a discussion.

[canuck]

What determines a healthy prosperous nation?

There is no argument that children going through their growing and learning years need proper nutrition.

The solution of giving the parents $6,000 a year in cash to cover their lunches is class warfare and subsidized poverty.

Children do not choose their parents and if their parents have a drug or alcohol problem or even living month to month are they going to put that $6,000 in a cupboard and dole it out every morning for the child’s lunch?

Then to make it even worse and say the children are not allowed to stay on school property during the lunch period,no problem if one has the means,but what happens when both parents work and the child has no where to go? They just hang out on the corner?

So the ones with means eat and the others are on their own.

Just like Obama care,people cannot afford health care so you are going to fine them for not being able to afford it.

Both cases are a form of punishment towards those less fortunate.

It was sold as providing healthcare for the poor but in our state anyways if you make under X amount per year there is Medicaid.

And called unconstitutional from day one,even by some of the architects that put it together.

The whole example of Canada being the ONLY country in the G8 that does not have a national school lunch program was about that there is no country that is a blueprint for another country to achieve perfection.

There is no country that can claim superiority over another one because they have this and we do not,all countries have their dark sides.

But sometimes people have a tendency in discussions to focus on a particular word and obsess on that,when we discuss an entire country there is a much bigger and complex picture involved.

Healthcare in America must have at least 5 million little pieces involved that make up the big picture and to say because it works in Tim-buc-to with a population of 5 million so it should be able to work in America is not even a discussion.

Just what I thought, no need to discuss the possibility of a national healthcare program because Timbuktu has it, but is much smaller. You left out big chunks like Japan and European countries because it is a convenient way to disparage Obamacare's supporters.

You don't understand that the insurance companies in socialized schemes are underwriting healthcare. In other words, all the insurers in the US want is to have free reign in runaway costs across the board. The cost of education at college level is the same ballgame.

You dismiss the liberal elites who may indeed be largely responsible for the kind of entitled society that doesn't want to lose status and money for equitable circumstance, but you subscribe to that which hurts you and props them up. Good luck with that.

[Richard]

It is not overlooking the possibility of,it is looking at the reality of it.

Even the DNC star little socialist who has a bachelors in economics cannot figure out how to come up with the 32 trillion shortfall even after taxing everybody.

To many people making to much money,to many politicians and doctors beholden to big pharm,the one guy that actually became president that was not really beholden to anybody but the people,they want to hang in the town square,so we get what we ask for.

The answer is not or should not be based on what other countries are doing because some of those countries are not really in a perfect situation either.

People say they want healthcare for all but they really do not,they just want to use it as a sounds good that we care about you talking point knowing full well that they are not about to do what it takes to implement it.

Big pharm says that we pay for other countries medicine,so they get a reduced cost,if we do not make up the slack then they will not be able to spend on the research.

I could see for instance a government run pharmaceutical branch in order to remove the insane costs from that aspect but to take a system that has been in place for 200 years and remove the profit margins out of it,no way that is going to happen.

Obama care was just like everything else,a bandaid without addressing the core issues.

[Canadian Visitor]

The answer is not or should not be based on what other countries are doing because some of those countries are not really in a perfect situation either.

Doubtless you also believe that since other countries have currencies, and are imperfect, the US shouldn't have one of those.

Moreover, since other countries have elevators, but are imperfect, the U.S. should get rid of those!

.....Other countries are imperfect, news at 11, so the Eff what?

They still have many things that work, and are worthy of study and/or emulation.

Big pharm says that we pay for other countries medicine,so they get a reduced cost,if we do not make up the slack then they will not be able to spend on the research.

Uhh, those companies do not lower the price because of US subsidies, they lower the price because they have no choice.

In the case of developed nations, the price is typically negotiated.

In the case of India, they simply don't recognize the patent if they don't like the price.

I could see for instance a government run pharmaceutical branch in order to remove the insane costs from that aspect but to take a system that has been in place for 200 years and remove the profit margins out of it,no way that is going to happen.

Three out of the Five largest Pharma companies in the world are European [[2 are American)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ies_by_revenue

Shockingly, 'socialized medicine' did not cause the companies to fold or stop doing medical research. Just gave the companies more customers.

[rb336]

It is not overlooking the possibility of,it is looking at the reality of it.

Even the DNC star little socialist who has a bachelors in economics cannot figure out how to come up with the 32 trillion shortfall even after taxing everybody.

.

What shortfall? Medicare for all, according to the study [[by the Koch brothers-funded Mercatus Center at George Mason University) from which you got that $32 trillion [[which is over 10 years) showed that that represented a SAVINGS of $2 trillion over the current system. That is $200 billion PER YEAR LESS.

You should really stop saying crap when you clearly know nothing.

[Richard]

What shortfall? Medicare for all, according to the study [[by the Koch brothers-funded Mercatus Center at George Mason University) from which you got that $32 trillion [[which is over 10 years) showed that that represented a SAVINGS of $2 trillion over the current system. That is $200 billion PER YEAR LESS.

You should really stop saying crap when you clearly know nothing.

So that last comment lends credence to your post?

How about if we go directly to the source and fact check.

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/08/th...icare-for-all/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypi.../#16df002f56f3

Now granted the Forbes link is an opinion but it would appear as the original architect of the study and Forbes should also stop saying crap because they clearly know nothing.

Pay close attention to the person that did they study,he was a past employee of Mercatus and did not receive funding from Koch.

Unless of course that is all fake news,but we know fake news does not exist,right?

[coracle]

One thing you can be absolutely confident about is that “the swamp” estimating the cost of any Government plan will NEVER get it right because it doesn’t matter what it costs. [[except that it’s low enough to be accepted by the voters).

Once a “Socialist” plan like “free” healthcare gets passed it can NEVER be cancelled so we HAVE to pay for it with ever increasing taxes; and the rest is covered by debt.

As Margaret Thatcher is reprted to said; Socialism works until you run out of other people’s money. But that’s really not true; you just keep sticking it on the national debt, and the people who passed the legislation are long dead by the time the real day of settlement arrives.

[aj3647]

Well, in keeping with the trend, it's been another No-Good-Very-Bad-Day for Donald Trump:

-Mike Flynn asks for his sentencing to be delayed, seems his memory was jogged and he has some more information that he wants to share with Robert Mueller first. This after the judge told him he "sold out his country."

-Two of Mike Flynn's business partners were federally indicted for being unregistered foreign agents and illegal foreign lobbying.

-Donald Trump has agreed to dissolve his charity, the Donald Trump Foundation, under judicial supervision. His charity is under investigation by the State of New York and is being sued by the state for a "shocking pattern of illegality."
https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...-of-a-shocking
The State is seeking nearly $3 million in restitution and is looking to ban Donald Trump and his three oldest adult children from ever serving on the board of a charity ever again. Trump and his children stand accused of using the charity as their own personal piggy-bank, using it to buy things for themselves or to pay off legal obligations related to their businesses. It also stands accused of illegally coordinating with Trump's Presidential campaign.

So weird that a guy who ran a scam university also ran a scam charity! Who would've thunk it???