Tax bill effects on homeownership.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

http://www.businessinsider.com/gop-t...merica-2017-12

[Wesley Mouch]

This mainly will affect the high-end homes. From the article cited:

Most Americans won’t feel it. Their mortgages are not nearly big enough. Only about 4% of purchase mortgages made in 2017 exceeded $750,000, according to Attom Data Solutions, cited by the Wall Street Journal:

But a few regions would get hit hard. In Manhattan, for example, 64% of purchase mortgages made this year were for more than $750,000, according to Attom. In San Francisco, that proportion is 58%, and the surrounding counties of San Mateo, Marin and Santa Clara register between 44% and 55%.

The headline says there GOP tax bill will "gut benefits of homeownership". By affecting 4% of homeowners? Really?

This will have zero effect on home prices for normal folks. Expect a little pain on Wall Street here and there. Well deserved.

[aj3647]

The federal tax reform law will cause Michigan residents to pay MORE in state income taxes.

https://www.southbendtribune.com/new...b6fe5077d.html

The tax legislation, which President Donald Trump is expected to sign, will eliminate the $4,050 personal exemption. That is an issue because Michigan lets people claim a $4,000 exemption for each exemption taken on their federal return.


"The federal tax reform is going to cause people's Michigan taxes to go up. We shouldn't take the benefit of that at the state level," the Republican governor told The Associated Press in a phone interview. "We should figure out how to give that back to the hard-working taxpayers."


Snyder said while the "very complicated" tax bill may have other implications for the state tax code, the elimination of the personal exemption is "the biggest element by far."


A single person would see a $170 state income tax hike; a married couple with two children would owe $680 more.

[Wesley Mouch]

The federal tax reform law will cause Michigan residents to pay MORE in state income taxes.

https://www.southbendtribune.com/new...b6fe5077d.html

Nothingburger. The article quotes Snyder:

"We should figure out how to give that back to the hard-working taxpayers."

[ABetterDetroit]

First it would be nice to discuss a Detroit Metro issue without injecting party ideology heavily into it for a change. The election arguments have gone down here many times plus there is one constantly ongoing near the top of the non Detroit Board if one is inclined.

With that said how is it good for Michigan if:

1) The housing market here gets depressed in the slightest?

Honestly the housing market in this state has been the dumpster fire of the nation for the last 40 years. Literally, it has been the poster child of what you don’t want to happen to your housing market if you live in almost any other state. We need more new housing at all price levels including million and multimillion dollar homes and the jobs, services and wealth that come with them.

2) How is it good that the State of Michigan has to “figure out how to give money back” because of this bill?

The finance issues at the state level here are well known for a while now. Being realistic, Michigan is in no position to cut their income even further because they don’t have the endless deep pockets uncle sugar does and they already have been making cuts for a long time.

If a crappy housing market in comparison to other states and massive cuts to state spending was some sort of recipe for economic success we would have a lot less of the economic problems that we have had over several decades and be one of the booming local economies.

[aj3647]

Nothingburger. The article quotes Snyder:

Oh it's a "nothingburger" because Snyder has vaguely promised to "figure it out?" LOL. Man you guys are a hoot. Maybe he'll figure it out just as well as he figured out the Flint Water Crisis.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Nothingburger. The article quotes Snyder:

What the hell do you mean by nothingburger? Explain in layman's terms.

[aj3647]

What the hell do you mean by nothingburger? Explain in layman's terms.

He's just parroting words he hears Trump use. The fact that he puts total faith in Snyder's words should tell you all you need to know. Well gee, if Rick Snyder promises something, you can take that to the bank!

It must be Snyder's honest and trustworthy nature that got him that noteworthy 37% approval rating he currently holds.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

He's just parroting words he hears Trump use. The fact that he puts total faith in Snyder's words should tell you all you need to know. Well gee, if Rick Snyder promises something, you can take that to the bank!

It must be Snyder's honest and trustworthy nature that got him that noteworthy 37% approval rating he currently holds.

And the fact that they let him totally off the hook for Flint. He knew, he let others take the fall.

[JBMcB]

What the hell do you mean by nothingburger? Explain in layman's terms.

It was a term used by CNN's Van Jones about the latest Trump-Russia collusion story from last June. In the context used there, it referred to a news story with no interesting content.

It was caught in one of those undercover sting videos by a conservative Youtube guy who has been caught deceptively editing his videos before, but in this case the context was pretty clear.

[Wesley Mouch]

What the hell do you mean by nothingburger? Explain in layman's terms.

wikipedia: "Something of less importance than its treatment suggests." Think about a hamburger with no meat.

In my post, I quoted a newspaper quoting Snyder. He said the state should make adjustments to its taxes to make sure federal changes don't result in increased state taxes.

[Scottathew]

Nothingburger. The article quotes Snyder:

I agree with your perspective on this topic, but I would encourage you to avoid the use of "nothingburger".

I mostly associate it with right-wing propaganda that is trying to dismiss the mounting evidence of the Trump campaign's wrong-doings.

When you say "nothingburger" it will have the effect of making me disregard anything else you're going to say.

Perhaps I'm unique in this feeling, but I suspect I'm not.

[Jimaz]

... Perhaps I'm unique in this feeling, but I suspect I'm not.

You're not alone.

Lake Superior State University’s 43rd Annual List of Banished Words

[Richard]

I agree with your perspective on this topic, but I would encourage you to avoid the use of "nothingburger".

I mostly associate it with right-wing propaganda that is trying to dismiss the mounting evidence of the Trump campaign's wrong-doings.

When you say "nothingburger" it will have the effect of making me disregard anything else you're going to say.

Perhaps I'm unique in this feeling, but I suspect I'm not.

The word has been around from the 1950s by a newspaper guy meaning a story that has no content,,anything else you want to add to the list of avoidable words,or maybe a few books that may contain words we do not agree with?

[Wesley Mouch]

I agree with your perspective on this topic, but I would encourage you to avoid the use of "nothingburger".

I mostly associate it with right-wing propaganda that is trying to dismiss the mounting evidence of the Trump campaign's wrong-doings.

When you say "nothingburger" it will have the effect of making me disregard anything else you're going to say.

Perhaps I'm unique in this feeling, but I suspect I'm not.

Sure. I don't think I've ever used the word before [[nor since).

I know words these days offend a lot of people. Judgements abound. And we would like to keep the conversation about ideas, and their impact on our fine City -- and not on whether this or that word is a dog-whistle.

Meanwhile, I'm gonna have a something-burger for dinner.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

I agree with your perspective on this topic, but I would encourage you to avoid the use of "nothingburger".

I mostly associate it with right-wing propaganda that is trying to dismiss the mounting evidence of the Trump campaign's wrong-doings.

When you say "nothingburger" it will have the effect of making me disregard anything else you're going to say.

Perhaps I'm unique in this feeling, but I suspect I'm not.

I wouldn't use anything associated with that "......" in the Oval Office.

[Baselinepunk]

I agree with your perspective on this topic, but I would encourage you to avoid the use of "nothingburger".

I mostly associate it with right-wing propaganda that is trying to dismiss the mounting evidence of the Trump campaign's wrong-doings.

When you say "nothingburger" it will have the effect of making me disregard anything else you're going to say.

Perhaps I'm unique in this feeling, but I suspect I'm not.

Nope, your're not alone. We've been sitting back for a while now watching the "Wes account" babble on and on. While good ole Wes states he has not use it, he has at least a few times in the past.

The record correctly reflects that Wes is just another one of "those" Republicans who try to come across as independent or "moderate" only to try and sway the crowd toward their gross and failed Republican ideals.

All hat and no cattle . . .

[swingline]

The cap for the mortgage interest deduction was formerly $1 million. The modest reduction to $750k is about the only good provision in the new tax bill. This works out to about a maximum $4k annual tax increase for someone with a $1 million mortgage with a 5% interest rate. That homeowner's monthly mortgage payment would be about $5,500/mo. In other words, the tax increase would equal less than one month's loan payment. Anybody at that income level can afford the tax increase.

[Johnnny5]

I'm not a big fan of the mortgage interest deduction, and honestly I wish they would have phased it out completely. It's supposed to make home ownership more affordable, but in reality it simply raises prices and encourages prospective homeowners to carry more debt and possibly overextend themselves. What help it does offer is mostly in the form of a write off for the upper middle class and well off [[When they need it the least), and as a subsidy to those involved in the mortgage business.

[313WX]

This is a non-problem in a state where the median home price is $136,000.

Hell, homeowners in Michigan will be lucky to see their values double 25 years from now [[and that's assuming no more economic collapses), whereas the values will have tripled or even quadrupled by that time in other parts of the country.

[JBMcB]

It should be eliminated entirely. Or, at the very least, phased out for new purchases.

Think of it this way. Imagine you run a shoe store and the government gives everyone a $10 shoe subsidy. Guess what you are going to do to the price of shoes? Raise them by $10. That's what happens to mortgages. 10% federal home subsidy? 10% higher home prices. Most of the higher price tag gets skimmed off by the mortgage companies and real estate agents.

This isn't a partisan issue - every economist of every political persuasion who studies the effect comes to the same conclusion. Here's a planet money episode about it:

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2...liticians-hate

[Wesley Mouch]

It should be eliminated entirely. Or, at the very least, phased out for new purchases.

Think of it this way. Imagine you run a shoe store and the government gives everyone a $10 shoe subsidy. Guess what you are going to do to the price of shoes? Raise them by $10. That's what happens to mortgages. 10% federal home subsidy? 10% higher home prices. Most of the higher price tag gets skimmed off by the mortgage companies and real estate agents.

This isn't a partisan issue - every economist of every political persuasion who studies the effect comes to the same conclusion. Here's a planet money episode about it:

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2...liticians-hate

Yes. Yes.

Fine Planet Money article. [[They're pretty good most of the time.)

So one upon a time, I was doing my taxes. And never itemized. I scraped together my mortgage interest, medical expenses [[not enough), state and local taxes, and voila! I had enough itemized deductions to do better than the standard deduction. By about $25! Wow, was I disappointed.

The mortgage interest deduction wasn't worth more to me than a couple coffees from Family Donut.

There's probably nobody in Hamtramck where the mortgage interest deduction helps them get more savings than the standard deduction. Now if I'd only bought a house in Franklin...

[ABetterDetroit]

This is a non-problem in a state where the median home price is $136,000.

Hell, homeowners in Michigan will be lucky to see their values double 25 years from now [[and that's assuming no more economic collapses), whereas the values will have tripled or even quadrupled by that time in other parts of the country.

^This^

The "why should we even try to compete because we suck" Michigan Mentality.

Meanwhile other states have created wealth for their residents that gets reinvested in their economy, a huge economic engine in home improvements, construction and a improving Tax base. And of course a plethora of entry level jobs for non college educated citizens.

But no we don't want any of that... Because they can and we can't! So it doesn't really matter...

[emu steve]

Okay, guys, here is one for you which no one got [[unless I missed the comment).

I can't copy and paste it as it comes from a financial advisory service [[someone shared it with me)...

"Home equity indebtedness is no longer deductible."

Home owners have been encouraged for years to take out 2nd mtges and the interest paid on up to the first 100K is tax deductible.

Monday it is bye, bye. Surprise. Surprise.

Second mortgages are valuable sources of funds for home improvements, car purchases, etc.

For some, take out a say 50K second and remodel a kitchen or bath and buy a new car, have one payment over say 10 years, tax deductible, etc. etc.

Ten years later, repeat the process...

Gone.

[313WX]

Okay, guys, here is one for you which no one got [[unless I missed the comment).

I can't copy and paste it as it comes from a financial advisory service [[someone shared it with me)...

"Home equity indebtedness is no longer deductible."

Home owners have been encouraged for years to take out 2nd mtges and the interest paid on up to the first 100K is tax deductible.

Monday it is bye, bye. Surprise. Surprise.

Second mortgages are valuable sources of funds for home improvements, car purchases, etc.

For some, take out a say 50K second and remodel a kitchen or bath and buy a new car, have one payment over say 10 years, tax deductible, etc. etc.

Ten years later, repeat the process...

Gone.

In my opinion, it's irresponsible for people to take out 2nd mortgages [[especially if their home is already paid off) in order to cover expeness. That's part of what caused the 2007 crisis.

More to the point, people shouldn't be buying homes if they can't afford to maintain them. And furthermore, we shouldn't be encouraging people to make improvements they aren't absolutely necessary to make their home livable.