Sink Hole in Fraser Ruins the Holidays

[Gistok]

48307....

Do you remember August 11, 2014? [[see image)

That was the storm of the century, and it ended up causing hundreds [[if not thousands) of times more sewage to dump both into into the Clinton River/Lake St. Clair waterways AND into people's basements.

This Fraser incident is a mere pin prick by comparison.

Ironically large parts of St. Clair Shores had dry basements, although the beaches were closed for some time. Although there was no lasting damage to the waterways, which flush themselves out [[no pun intended) quite quickly.

[jcole]

I think he means this PARTICULAR incident has nothing to do with it because beaches are closed for the year

It doesn't seem obvious to me. A huge contributor to e. coli contamination would be the dumping of raw sewage into the our waterways. The Clinton River feeds into Lake Saint Clair.

I don't understand why it should be "obvious" that dumping raw sewage into the Clinton River does not contribute to beach closings.

The Kuhn has had CSO's, but even the their CSO's get some treatment [[although certainly far from proper). The inner-ring suburbs all need to be fixed so we can stop ruining our environment.

The Kuhn also had insufficient capacity, even with it's humongous storage tank, causing my parents basement to flood with raw sewage in Clawson.

Warren also has CSO's into the Red Run as well.

The answer to sewage in your basement isn't to dump raw sewage into our waterways, it's to separate out sewage and storm water, and to hold storm water so we're not sending downstream too quickly.

[Scottathew]

I think he means this PARTICULAR incident has nothing to do with it because beaches are closed for the year

I can certainly believe that this incident did not time-travel and cause past beach closures.

[Scottathew]

48307....

Do you remember August 11, 2014? [[see image)

That was the storm of the century, and it ended up causing hundreds [[if not thousands) of times more sewage to dump both into into the Clinton River/Lake St. Clair waterways AND into people's basements.

This Fraser incident is a mere pin prick by comparison.

Ironically large parts of St. Clair Shores had dry basements, although the beaches were closed for some time. Although there was no lasting damage to the waterways, which flush themselves out [[no pun intended) quite quickly.

I certainly do. I was lucky not to get caught up in it.

This is exactly why all developed areas should be forced to invest in separate storm water systems. As long as we allow CSO's there is no motivation to make the investment in proper infrastructure.

[Zacha341]

That does put things into perspective relative to what sewage has been dumped so far.

Do you remember August 11, 2014? [[see image)

That was the storm of the century, and it ended up causing hundreds [[if not thousands) of times more sewage to dump both into into the Clinton River/Lake St. Clair waterways AND into people's basements.

This Fraser incident is a mere pin prick by comparison. ......

[Dumpling]

Here is an article concerning insurance coverage for homes affected by
the sinkhole.

http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/loca...26317535-story

[Jimaz]

From Freep's Sinkhole triggers Macomb County water restrictions:

The directive says an estimated 150,000 homes were in the communities that need to limit water use, comprising the townships of Chesterfield, Clinton, Harrison, Lenox, Macomb, Shelby and Washington, as well as the cities of Fraser, New Haven, Sterling Heights and Utica. Those working or living at Selfridge Field Air National Guard Base also should limit their water use, the directive says.

[sirrealone]

Most major lines are inspected about every 10 years. Now, you'd think that if a line had a history of major failures [[plural) that they'd think about inspecting it a little more regularly [[like, say, oh every year). But, nope. From the sounds of it this line hasn't been inspected since after the 2004 collapse was fixed.

I'm no engineer, but you'd think that a little more regular checking would at least increase the chances that they'd catch something like this before it starts swallowing up homes and major thoroughfares.

[takascar]

I certainly do. I was lucky not to get caught up in it. This is exactly why all developed areas should be forced to invest in separate storm water systems. As long as we allow CSO's there is no motivation to make the investment in proper infrastructure.

You sure to like to "force" and "mandate" with a government gun that a free people do things according to YOUR wishes. What if they don't want to?

[Jimaz]

They need to plant some kind of sensors down there that would trigger an alarm if a sinkhole starts forming. Or maybe it would be easier to routinely inspect with ground-penetrating radar.

[MikeM]

Most major lines are inspected about every 10 years. Now, you'd think that if a line had a history of major failures [[plural) that they'd think about inspecting it a little more regularly [[like, say, oh every year). But, nope. From the sounds of it this line hasn't been inspected since after the 2004 collapse was fixed.

I'm no engineer, but you'd think that a little more regular checking would at least increase the chances that they'd catch something like this before it starts swallowing up homes and major thoroughfares.

The line was inspected after the 2004 incident and underwent repairs in 2007-2008.

[Dumpling]

The sinkhole recently collapsed a little bit more internally:

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/m...sed-sewer-line

Willi posted concerning the interceptor system:

https://redrundrain.wordpress.com/

There is a black and white map of the three interceptors that run to
the Detroit WWTP - On the left, "Oakwood", aka "Oak"; in the middle,
"North Interceptor East Arm", aka "NIEA", and the interceptor running
along Jefferson Avenue is also known as "Jeff". The "Jeff" infrastructure
is in the worst shape. The "NIEA" infrastructure, which includes the
Oakland-Macomb Interceptor, is in the best shape.

[Dumpling]

Willi's maps show the Northeast Sewage Pumping Station circled in pink,
where the OMI runs into NIEA. It is designated to be rehabbed
pretty soon.

[[Here I am kind of like in Oliver Twist, "More?" but with the amount
requested for the gruel bowl in millions.)

Willi and Candice Miller both seem to think that the drain commission and
construction industry should move away from reliance on paper documents
and records towards computer information systems. This might entail hiring IT
people.

[[Tax and spend? Bloat? Long overdue improvement on the horseshoe and buggy?)

[[Government computers are only the newest ones for a short time and then
programs run slowly.) [[Someone's best guesstimate is that only 3% of your
payment goes towards corruption. My best guesstimate is that everyone's rates
will go up about 10% pretty soon - half for the pumping station, half for moving
the industry into the information age and keeping it there.)

[Jimaz]

‘Super Bowl flush' worries Miller, Lake St. Clair advocates

Candice Miller is worried what the so-called “Super Bowl flush” could do to sewer lines around the Fraser sinkhole.

Miller, Macomb County public works commissioner, fears that if everyone in the 11 communities that are part of the Macomb Interceptor District flushes their toilets around the same time Sunday, such during halftime of the Super Bowl game, the system could be overwhelmed, and officials could be forced to discharge of a massive amount of raw sewage into the Clinton River and its tributaries. The collapse of the 15 Mile Road line has exacerbated concerns....

Miller said she has been told by contractors that during the 2005 Super Bowl following the 2004 sinkhole along the same line under 15 Mile Road resulted in a sewage discharge due to the halftime flush....

The group [called Save Lake St. Clair] suggested residents of the 11 communities refrain from doing laundry and conserve water in other ways this weekend to help reduce the impact. The impacted communities are Chesterfield Township, New Haven, Lenox Township, Clinton Township, Fraser, Harrison Township [[including Selfridge Air National Guard Base), Macomb Township, Shelby Township, Sterling Heights, Utica and Washington Township....

Save the Clinton! Whether or not you enjoy the game, avoid using drains in those communities during Super Bowl halftime!

[kathy2trips]

I am so with you on that! If we don't learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it. You think cholera is only for third world countries? Detroit had several epidemics in the 19th century. You wonder why people are still getting inexplicable cancers after we've been fighting it as a nation for almost 100 years?

As if the giant bubble of perchloroethylene at the bottom of the St. Clair River leeching into the water weren't enough [[Thanks, Dow Chemical. When did you tell Pres. Trump you were cleaning that up?). We already have bacteria, heavy metals, salt runoff from cities, rural runoff from fertilizers, industrial waste.....and what else in the way of literal and figurative crap can we pile into the Great Lakes system and its tributaries? You can't even eat the fish you catch anymore. I find it very hard to get freaked out about global warming when water pollution is still a clear and present danger, alive and well and living in Metro Detroit.

Soon it will be time to change the designation of Area of Concern [[AOC) to S*** Outta Luck [[SOL)

[Jimaz]

The good news is we didn't have a replay of the 2005 halftime spill. Yea!

But we're not out of the woods yet. Water conservation continues until the temporary bypass is completed next month.