Sink Hole in Fraser Ruins the Holidays

[Jimaz]

From today's Macomb Daily:

According to the Macomb County Public Works office, the discharge into the river began at 2:20 p.m. Monday and stopped at 9:20 a.m. Tuesday.

The discharge notification did not include the amount of gallons....

[Mayor] Nichols pointed out that Fraser doesn't own the lines and was not responsible for inspections. The Macomb County Draiinage District is the owner, while the department of public works is charged with the inspections.

FWIW

[MikeM]

This story does keep getting better...

Burglary suspect smashes through Fraser sinkhole road block

[clubboss]

Starting @ midnight tonight – running until 6:00 AM, the communications lines [[telephone, cable and internet) are going offline from Clinton Twp. all the way down to Grosse Pointe. Repairing fiber optic cable.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/l...on-dec-28-2016

This was the lead story @ noon, so it’s at the beginning of the broadcast.

[Jaybiz]

The 15 Mile Rd. sinkhole fault is back with a vengeance. Just like the one that occurred 12 years ago. On 15 Mile Rd. near Moravian Dr. That house near the main road is a total loss. If this sinkhole continues. We might have a new Grand Canyon that swallowed Fraser, Clinton TWP. and Sterling Heights.

Stop Suburban Sprawl NOW!

I'm all for stopping suburban sprawl but Fraser is an older city that I wouldn't consider part of sprawl. Unless your definition of suburban sprawl includes places like Birmingham, Huntington Woods & Royal Oak which I guess technically is true. I think of suburban sprawl as non-stop expansion of the suburbs into formerly rural areas with no regard to urban planning. The homes effected by the sinkhole are newer McMansion types but that was one small development & doesn't represent the majority of the older housing in the area.

[Scottathew]

This was an accident, not a design fault. It's a massive pipe that serves the eastern side of Macomb County up to Ray Twp and New Haven. No one is going to stand for having thousands of basements flood with waste so you can kayak next summer.

You don't consider a single point of failure causing us to willingly dump raw sewage into a river a design flaw? We need to have the infrastructure be redundant and have ample capacity.

Also, this is about much more than kayaking. You can try to minimize it by pretending that is the only thing at stake.

We need to greatly invest in how we deal with sewage and storm water, both as communities and as a region.

I hope whatever entity that did the dumping gets fined heavily.

[Dumpling]

Willi weighed in when the sinkhole incident started.

https://redrundrain.wordpress.com/

To be slightly fair to outgoing DPW chief Marrocco, considerable attention was
given to the Oakland-Macomb Interceptor during his tenure. However the 15
Mile side arm interceptor probably didn't get enough attention. From what
I remember from news reports about the 2004 incident, the subsoil along
15 Mile is quite sandy. I maybe remember also [[could be mistaken) that
there was a fresh water main pipe break that happened first very close to the
interceptor, and that one washed away the sandy soil around the interceptor,
but once the interceptor itself crumbled enough the sewage flow through the
interceptor was enough to get a sizable sinkhole going. Not sure who is
responsible for the fresh water mains in Fraser.

[Dumpling]

Here is a trade page that has a little more background info.

http://www.nthconsultants.com/news-and-events.html

[Dumpling]

This one is for the sewage damage lawsuit lovers.

http://www.downtownpublications.com/...s-forward.html

[Dumpling]

I went and checked Rochester's State Representative Webber's bill that
was introduced some time after the Penberthy sewage incident in Rochester
but it is still at the sausage stage:

https://www.billtrack50.com/BillDetail/699997

[takascar]

^^ Perfect example of how low Trumpers are on the evolutionary scale.

I'm "low on the evolutionary scale"? I make cogent points and your response is to name-call instead of refuting my points using reason.

Is it "Trumpers" [[i.e real Americans) who have problems or crybaby libtard snowflakes?

Just saying....

[takascar]

I sincerely hope that you are nothing but an irritating troll because if you believe this you are too dumb to survive much longer.
You do realize that the Clinton River runs out to Lake St Clair which in turn runs into the Detroit River which is where we get our drinking water from for a good part of the state. So wanting to keep sewage out of the river IS taking care of Human Beings.
As I said, I really hope you are trolling because your post is just to insane to be real

Do you know what a "Water Treatment Plant" is? Do you know that raw sewerage is treated at a treatment plant and then DUMPED BACK INTO THE LAKES/RIVERS?

[takascar]

Takascar, your thinking is so absurdly short-sighted.

That river feeds into Lake Saint Clair. Lake Saint Clair feeds into the Detroit River. The Detroit River and Lake Saint Clair is where your drinking water comes from.

Fraser has built their sewage infrastructure in such a short-sighted way that a single failure can cause them to dump RAW FREAKING SEWAGE into the waterway that dumps into the water ways where nearly FOUR MILLION PEOPLE get their drinking water from.

Our rivers are used by the very PEOPLE you want to put first for enjoyment and recreation. I can't kayak in the Clinton River or take my family to Lake Saint Clair if there is RAW SEWAGE in it.

If Fraser residents don't want sewage in their basements, they need to build infrastructure that has ample capacity and is fault tolerant. Dumping directly into the Clinton River SHOULD NOT ever be an option.

I live in Rochester Hills, where we have spent a lot of money to have both storm water and sewage systems. Just because Fraser residents aren't willing to make that same commitment doesn't mean that they get to dump raw sewage into our water when they have a single sewer fail.

The part of the system that has a break was not owned by Fraser, nor any part of their responsibility. It was build by DWSD and they had a stranglehold over it for the longest time and apparently didn't inspect or maintain it well.

Anything to divert attention away from the failure of DEMOCRAT-OPERATED institutions to serve the public need.

[Scottathew]

Do you know what a "Water Treatment Plant" is? Do you know that raw sewerage is treated at a treatment plant and then DUMPED BACK INTO THE LAKES/RIVERS?

You don't seem to understand.

Dumping treated water is fine, because it's treated.

Dumping raw sewage is bad, because it has very high concentrations of poop, pee, bacteria, tampons, toilet paper, and anything else that goes down a toilet or drain.

Treated = GOOD
Raw sewage = BAD

[takascar]

Also, you do understand that 66 million people voted for Clinton, and 63 million voted for Trump. I don't contest Trump won the election, but to proclaim that liberals and environmentalists need to mute themselves is laughable. More people think the way we do than think the way Trump does. Trump won, fairly, because of the electoral college.

Also, you do realize that it's "libtard" polices [[you must really like Jim Fouts) that keep your drinking water safe.

I wish you could live in a seperate Trump-topia planet where you don't have to worry about the environment. You can burn all the fossil fuels you want. You can dump literal raw shit into the same lakes and rivers you get your water from. You can have no regard for anyone but yourselves and use your superior position to screw everything and everyone else over until it all collapses.

NO - without California, Trump wins the popular vote by several milllion. If we had election by popular vote, CA would get to pick the pres and Middle America would be shut out.

[Scottathew]

The part of the system that has a break was not owned by Fraser, nor any part of their responsibility. It was build by DWSD and they had a stranglehold over it for the longest time and apparently didn't inspect or maintain it well.

Anything to divert attention away from the failure of DEMOCRAT-OPERATED institutions to serve the public need.

Macomb County bought the infrastructure from DWSD a decade ago.

Regardless of political affiliations, dumping raw sewage into the river is bad.

We get it, you love Trump. That has nothing to do with whether or not we choose to dump sewage into the rivers and lakes we use for drinking water and recreation.

[Scottathew]

NO - without California, Trump wins the popular vote by several milllion. If we had election by popular vote, CA would get to pick the pres and Middle America would be shut out.

Why shouldn't California count?

[Bham1982]

Why shouldn't California count?

Apparently we aren't supposed to count a massive state of 40 million, with an economy bigger than that of France or the UK, the best public university system on earth, and the innovation capitol of the planet.

Apparently we're only supposed to count the trailer parks, meth labs and KKK rallies of America. No one else counts, especially those darn "libtards".

[Bham1982]

We get it, you love Trump. That has nothing to do with whether or not we choose to dump sewage into the rivers and lakes we use for drinking water and recreation.

Actually, the fact that someone loves Trump has everything to do with whether or not someone is cool with dumping raw sewage into our drinking supply and recreation spots.

If you gave a damn about such things you probably wouldn't vote for the guy who claims global warning is "a hoax invented by the Chinese" and who appointed a massive polluter and climate change apologist to head the EPA.

[MikeM]

You don't consider a single point of failure causing us to willingly dump raw sewage into a river a design flaw? We need to have the infrastructure be redundant and have ample capacity.

Also, this is about much more than kayaking. You can try to minimize it by pretending that is the only thing at stake.

We need to greatly invest in how we deal with sewage and storm water, both as communities and as a region.

I hope whatever entity that did the dumping gets fined heavily.

No one is getting fined heavily due to an emergency dump because of a major malfunction. You can forget about that. And no, it's not a design flaw, because that's how gravity sewer systems are designed and built. The cost would be prohibitive for such little benefit. It's like criticizing the state for not building a second Mackinac Bridge, just in case the first one fails. The damage to the Clinton River and Lake St Clair will be minimal.

[Scottathew]

The damage to the Clinton River and Lake St Clair will be minimal.

Apparently not, because beaches closed several times this year because of pollution. This isn't just about recreation, it's about wildlife and our water supply as well.

http://patch.com/michigan/stclairsho...m-sewage-watch

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2016/07/...e-coli-issues/

http://www.macombdaily.com/article/M...NEWS/160819926

https://www.politicscentral.org/two-...due-pollution/

And no, it's not a design flaw, because that's how gravity sewer systems are designed and built. The cost would be prohibitive for such little benefit.

I certainly appreciate your perspective and I'll have to agree to disagree.

[MikeM]

And then the beaches reopen. And those closings have nothing to do with this temporary problem.

[Scottathew]

And then the beaches reopen. And those closings have nothing to do with this temporary problem.

Closing the beaches due to e. coli has nothing to do with dumping raw sewage into them?

I'm curious, then what do you think is causing the e. coli levels to be high?

[Zacha341]

Precisely. And considering the history of 'man-made' disasters, they usually have a worse outcome than assumed, predicted and reported!

Watch the poli-tricks proceed to attempt to damage control this!

Closing the beaches due to e. coli has nothing to do with dumping raw sewage into them?

I'm curious, then what do you think is causing the e. coli levels to be high?

[MikeM]

Closing the beaches due to e. coli has nothing to do with dumping raw sewage into them?

I'm curious, then what do you think is causing the e. coli levels to be high?

Reread what I said. Beach closings have nothing to do with this problem, obviously. Sewage contamination of the Clinton is usually a result of system overloads of the Kuhn basin from heavy rains. And sewage is not the sole source of e. coli.

[Scottathew]

Beach closings have nothing to do with this problem, obviously. Sewage contamination of the Clinton is usually a result of system overloads of the Kuhn basin from heavy rains. And sewage is not the sole source of e. coli.

It doesn't seem obvious to me. A huge contributor to e. coli contamination would be the dumping of raw sewage into the our waterways. The Clinton River feeds into Lake Saint Clair.

I don't understand why it should be "obvious" that dumping raw sewage into the Clinton River does not contribute to beach closings.

The Kuhn has had CSO's, but even the their CSO's get some treatment [[although certainly far from proper). The inner-ring suburbs all need to be fixed so we can stop ruining our environment.

The Kuhn also had insufficient capacity, even with it's humongous storage tank, causing my parents basement to flood with raw sewage in Clawson.

Warren also has CSO's into the Red Run as well.

The answer to sewage in your basement isn't to dump raw sewage into our waterways, it's to separate out sewage and storm water, and to hold storm water so we're not sending downstream too quickly.