Monroe Block Development

**Danny** · October-02-21, 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Exactly, lol.

The ones that got away. And most of them are not interest of Gilbert's Detroit building projects until he and his shareholders get serious.

**NSortzi** · October-01-21, 03:22 AM

Yaaaaaawn

**stasu1213** · October-02-21, 06:25 PM

I don't think that the investors are pulling out because of Gilbert. I think that they are pulling out due to the BS that the city put developers through in order to get things done. Detroit especially downtown is ripe for good developments especially international businesses being that we are just three miles across the pond from another country. Detroit cant get a operational Port Authority with ships coming in and out of it even before the pandemic. Can't blame Gilbert for the failure of the Monroe Block

**Gistok** · October-02-21, 07:48 PM

^ When it comes to Gilbert... all he has to do is call Duggan to get things done. I know you have a lot of "theories", that is your assumption.

The Detroit/Wayne County Port Authority is run by the state, county and city TOGETHER, and has multiple terminals, handling millions of tons of goods [3rd largest steel port in the nation]. If you are only referring to the port station next to Hart Plaza... that's apples and oranges as far as the Port Authority goes.

Duggan is notorious for getting his way [unless City Council stops him]. When Duggan was the head of DMC, my brother-in-law was one of his managers... if anyone stood in Duggan's way at DMC... he GOT RID of them, which was one of the reasons that the upper and middle level managers at DMC disliked him. If any mid level or higher level person at City Hall gets in his way, I'm sure he would remove them as well. He doesn't tolerate red tape when it comes to Detroit development for Gilbert.

So I don't agree with your assessment that Detroit bureaucracy is hampering the Monroe Block development. Unless you can provide some link to show that. Gilbert isn't hamstrung as other business in Detroit might be.

**Satiricalivory** · October-03-21, 01:05 PM

It's obvious that Bedrock's hands are full with the Hudson Site. Monroe will come eventually. It's pretty typical for large office building towers to have years of planning.

**bust** · October-03-21, 03:41 PM

It's disappointing this isn't immediately happening, but not because I think it should. What's disappointing is how the local, national, even global economy has changed.

Developers act responsibly when they respond to market conditions -- both for their investment and for the city. They act irresponsibly when they overbuild and/or design for conditions that no longer apply.

Real estate developments exist within an ecosystem. They affect that ecosystem, but only so much.

I hope the time comes soon for a great development that makes a huge positive impact on its environs with an appropriate design for its time.

As far as the difficulty getting things done in Detroit because of bureaucracy/ political interference, I'm sure that's true compared to Troy and Wichita, but I doubt that's true compared with most of the biggest cities in the US. Not an excuse for it. But it cannot be even close to the main reason for delay.

**401don** · October-03-21, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by bust

It's disappointing this isn't immediately happening, but not because I think it should. What's disappointing is how the local, national, even global economy has changed.

Developers act responsibly when they respond to market conditions -- both for their investment and for the city. They act irresponsibly when they overbuild and/or design for conditions that no longer apply.

Real estate developments exist within an ecosystem. They affect that ecosystem, but only so much.

I hope the time comes soon for a great development that makes a huge positive impact on its environs with an appropriate design for its time.

As far as the difficulty getting things done in Detroit because of bureaucracy/ political interference, I'm sure that's true compared to Troy and Wichita, but I doubt that's true compared with most of the biggest cities in the US. Not an excuse for it. But it cannot be even close to the main reason for delay.

For now I think we should just be thrilled Gilbert decided to continue the Hudson Site at it's current scale. It wouldn't have been too late to scale way back or pull the plug altogether if he chose.

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · October-03-21, 05:28 PM

For almost 40 years I’ve said the original Monroe Block should have been restored and not torn down and I’ve yet to be proven wrong.

**bust** · October-03-21, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

For almost 40 years I’ve said the original Monroe Block should have been restored and not torn down and I’ve yet to be proven wrong.

I agree, it's obvious, and for almost as long have thought so too. Has it been 40 years already? Can't be, can it?

Ah, almost.

**Satiricalivory** · October-03-21, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

For almost 40 years I’ve said the original Monroe Block should have been restored and not torn down and I’ve yet to be proven wrong.

Unfortunately Coleman Young was too much of a petty little *****.

I do think that whenever the project is completed and if it stays more or less the same it will be better than anything that was ever there before.

**Jason** · October-03-21, 09:53 PM

In the late 70s, Hudson's said it was going to close the downtown store. Downtown business interests and the city got together and put together a downtown mall plan with 3 anchor department stores, which satisfied Hudson's requirements for staying. The mall was going to be named "Cadillac Center" which is what the People Mover station is named for.

In the plan, the theater would have been renovated and operated as a theater. The other buildings on Monroe would have their facades restored and the ground floors would house retail, although the upper floors would be a covering for a parking garage that was to be built behind them. Monroe would have been remained outdoors but narrowed and this part of the mall was conceptualized as an extension of Greektown.

Hudson's would move to a new space elsewhere on the site, and then the old building would either be renovated or replaced for a new department store. The other two department stores would have been at each corner of what is now the Compuware development. The mall would have had a direct connection to the planned underground light rail station near Woodward and Gratiot.

While Hudson's and the buildings on Monroe's futures were contingent upon the mall being built, the mall being built was contingent on Woodward light rail being built [[not settled on, but generally 8 Mile, to Jefferson, to the Dequindre Cut, with downtown underground and elsewhere a combination of elevated, ground level, and underground).

The silver lining is that the mall would have been an urbanistic atrocity. Google "Stamford Town Center" to see what it would have been like.

**stasu1213** · October-04-21, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by Jason

In the late 70s, Hudson's said it was going to close the downtown store. Downtown business interests and the city got together and put together a downtown mall plan with 3 anchor department stores, which satisfied Hudson's requirements for staying. The mall was going to be named "Cadillac Center" which is what the People Mover station is named for.

In the plan, the theater would have been renovated and operated as a theater. The other buildings on Monroe would have their facades restored and the ground floors would house retail, although the upper floors would be a covering for a parking garage that was to be built behind them. Monroe would have been remained outdoors but narrowed and this part of the mall was conceptualized as an extension of Greektown.

Hudson's would move to a new space elsewhere on the site, and then the old building would either be renovated or replaced for a new department store. The other two department stores would have been at each corner of what is now the Compuware development. The mall would have had a direct connection to the planned underground light rail station near Woodward and Gratiot.

While Hudson's and the buildings on Monroe's futures were contingent upon the mall being built, the mall being built was contingent on Woodward light rail being built [[not settled on, but generally 8 Mile, to Jefferson, to the Dequindre Cut, with downtown underground and elsewhere a combination of elevated, ground level, and underground).

The silver lining is that the mall would have been an urbanistic atrocity. Google "Stamford Town Center" to see what it would have been like.

I could had at least with building Hudson's a new building the size of the buildings in Northland and Eastland. As much as I loved the Hudson's Building it had gotten too big in an economy that was down sizing including footprints of new retail. It would had been nice to see light rail traveling northbound on Woodward to 8 mile. It probably was an issue with DDOT by it taking away riders from DDOT's Woodward line. It shows that money over rule historic preservation. The Monroe Block was razed around the same time the historic mansions and homes in Brush Park were being razed even though many homes in that area were registered as historical

**rbdetsport** · October-04-21, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

I could had at least with building Hudson's a new building the size of the buildings in Northland and Eastland. As much as I loved the Hudson's Building it had gotten too big in an economy that was down sizing including footprints of new retail. It would had been nice to see light rail traveling northbound on Woodward to 8 mile. It probably was an issue with DDOT by it taking away riders from DDOT's Woodward line. It shows that money over rule historic preservation. The Monroe Block was razed around the same time the historic mansions and homes in Brush Park were being razed even though many homes in that area were registered as historical

It really is a shame that light-rail was never built. A transit system could have had huge impacts on the revitalization of downtown today. But, sidebar, y'all remember this proposal? ��

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Centre

**313WX** · October-04-21, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by rbdetsport

It really is a shame that light-rail was never built. A transit system could have had huge impacts on the revitalization of downtown today. But, sidebar, y'all remember this proposal? ��

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Centre

Yes, indeed-y!

The discussion on here about that project was quite lively, almost as good as Gilbert's phantom skyscraper on the Statler site.

**rbdetsport** · October-04-21, 02:58 PM

Those were the good ole' days, weren't they? It was a different kind of cynicism but in a way, more fun. Now we expect more, then get disappointed. Skipper's Rule is part of a different game these days!

**401don** · October-04-21, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by rbdetsport

It really is a shame that light-rail was never built. A transit system could have had huge impacts on the revitalization of downtown today. But, sidebar, y'all remember this proposal? ��

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Centre

I kind of miss the Target that was for certain going in there.

**rbdetsport** · October-04-21, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

I kind of miss the Target that was for certain going in there.

That would be.. the Dotmart.. get it right

**Jason** · October-04-21, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

It would had been nice to see light rail traveling northbound on Woodward to 8 mile. It probably was an issue with DDOT by it taking away riders from DDOT's Woodward line.

The city 1,000% wanted the light rail built. The light rail was part of an overall transit plan which also included more buses, BRT, commuter rail, and the people mover. The suburbs' point of opposition was how much of the money was going to Detroit-centric transit. Of course, they weren't actually in favor of spending any money for suburban-centric transit either.

**Satiricalivory** · October-04-21, 02:06 PM

Wasn't there a huge fight over the block's historic status?

Preservationists won the war, Coleman lost and the mall plan was already dead in the water. So he decided to fence off the whole place and let it decay and then [[I'm pretty sure illegally) demolished it.

He was known for doing that. He was a petty narcissistic b*tch with zero regard for the city.

**Jason** · October-04-21, 05:13 PM

So speaking of the Quicken development on the Statler site, does anyone have the rendering of it?

Back in the day someone leaked it and posted it here and then removed it shortly after. It was a short flat building with a lot of terraces and it crossed over Bagley onto the Tuller site.

I really wish I had saved it.

**313WX** · October-04-21, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by Jason

So speaking of the Quicken development on the Statler site, does anyone have the rendering of it?

Someone leaked it and posted it here and then removed it shortly after. It was a short flat building with a lot of terraces and it crossed over Bagley onto the Tuller site.

I really wish I had saved it.

Yeah, I distinctly remember seeing the rendering too.

Good to know I'm not crazy, lol.

**bust** · October-04-21, 06:58 PM

IMH[umble]O The rendering proposed for Cadillac Centre was way better than the Stamford Town Center grotesquerie.

**Satiricalivory** · October-04-21, 07:32 PM

Quicken at Statler?? Whaaaat?

Never heard of this, I assume this was in 2009?

I know there was a mid-rise office building they planned somewhere on the waterfront. I guess they considered many options before going to campus martius.

And I remember that Cadillac Centre proposal. God that would have been so ugly. Thank god it didn't happen.

**Gistok** · October-04-21, 09:16 PM

There was a DYES member who used to post here named Quinn. He used Photoshop to put a project [which could have been an architectural design for a NYC project] on the Statler block back when Gilbert was first thinking about building a new HQ, with the main contender being the Hudson's and Statler blocks.

Here was his pipe dream...

**Dmberko11** · October-04-21, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

There was a DYES member who used to post here named Quinn. He used Photoshop to put a project [which could have been an architectural design for a NYC project] on the Statler block back when Gilbert was first thinking about building a new HQ, with the main contender being the Hudson's and Statler blocks.

Here was his pipe dream...

Druelworthy. Wish they built skyscrapers like this. Now THAT is architecture