Monroe Block Development

[hybridy]

Is anyone at all concerned that once this becomes a parking lot, it stays a parking lot?

[Seven&wyo]

Is anyone at all concerned that once this becomes a parking lot, it stays a parking lot?

If they are they’re morons..

[hybridy]

If they are they’re morons..

Foxtown 'hold my beer'

[royce]

I have never understood Quicken/Gilbert's desire to turn this parcel of land into office space. The Compuware Building, the First National Building, and other buildings surround Campus Martius are all office buildings. Given the fact that you have Campus Martius Park and Cadillac Square Park next to the Monroe Block, I would think a residential building would be the next piece of the puzzle. All of those people working in the buildings I just mentioned could just walk out of their Monroe Block residence and arrive to work in minutes if there was a residential building there. Also, consider the number of retail establishments you could add if you had 200-300 new residents living in that area. Again, I can't under why Gilbert wants to put the residential near Randolph. I consider that in back. Put folks right there by the parks. Just saying, that's what I'd do.

[Seven&wyo]

Foxtown 'hold my beer'

Oh yeah equating Gilbert and the Ilitchs, what an argument....

[Trumpeteer]

Yeah there seems to be somewhat of an overreaction about a drive-in theater in a parking lot that would have sat empty anyway.

Logistical question though, in the winter, do you leave your car on the whole movie? I've heard of some drive-ins providing small space heaters.

You apparently aren't old enough to have gone to Drive-Ins in the 50's and 60's like the Ford-Wyoming as they had heaters you would hang on your window. The heaters were corded and attached to a metal post in your parking slot.

[hybridy]

Oh yeah equating Gilbert and the Ilitchs, what an argument....

Is everything okay? This is an Internet forum after all.

[401don]

You apparently aren't old enough to have gone to Drive-Ins in the 50's and 60's like the Ford-Wyoming as they had heaters you would hang on your window. The heaters were corded and attached to a metal post in your parking slot.

I assumed they still had those, no? Not sure what they will do for heat at this temporary one. I remember in the '70's when our drive-in switched from the hanging speakers, which had crappy sound, to tuning in on your car radio.

[Gistok]

I have never understood Quicken/Gilbert's desire to turn this parcel of land into office space. The Compuware Building, the First National Building, and other buildings surround Campus Martius are all office buildings. Given the fact that you have Campus Martius Park and Cadillac Square Park next to the Monroe Block, I would think a residential building would be the next piece of the puzzle. All of those people working in the buildings I just mentioned could just walk out of their Monroe Block residence and arrive to work in minutes if there was a residential building there. Also, consider the number of retail establishments you could add if you had 200-300 new residents living in that area. Again, I can't under why Gilbert wants to put the residential near Randolph. I consider that in back. Put folks right there by the parks. Just saying, that's what I'd do.

You do realize Royce that this is a 2 block development, and the back block land is totally dedicated to housing?

The front block fronts Campus Martius park. Why would you want to put residential on probably the choicest remaining empty piece of real estate in Detroit, when it could house Class A office space? Every other building around Campus Martius is already Class A office space.

[royce]

Gistok, you answered your own question to me with your last sentence. I feel that residential in that spot breaks up the monotony of having all office buildings surround the parks at Campus Martius. Parks are meant to be for the residents in a neighborhood. Without residential nearby, you're asking folks from other parts of downtown and the city to frequent these parks. And they do, and there's nothing wrong with that. However, I just think that with all of his desire for "place making" - which brings people together, Gilbert would have made it a priority to build residential on the Monroe Block and not office space.

Gistok, if you recall, Meridian Medical Group was supposed to build an office tower on the Monroe Block. It didn't come to fruition and they ended up moving into the Compuware Building. With Gilbert needing tenants to fill the Hudson Block, I would think bringing residential to the front part of the Monroe Block would have made more sense. Also, a restaurant on the ground floor of a residential building that looked out to the parks would have been so cool. Instead he wants to build office buildings on the Monroe Block that look like they're going to be held up by toothpicks [[see the renderings) This to me is one of those missed opportunities. We don't expect it from Gilbert but I guess no one is perfect.

BTW, I remember that there was some talk of bringing an indoor movie theater to a development on the Monroe Block. It would have worked nicely with residential there.

[Satiricalivory]

I have never understood Quicken/Gilbert's desire to turn this parcel of land into office space.

You don't understand why they want to build prime office space in the central business district of the city while the office market downtown has never been better? What is there not to get?

[royce]

Satiricalivory, you and others keep saying this area is "prime office space." Yet, Gilbert has not been able to get anything off the ground. I mentioned earlier about the failed Meridian tower on the Monroe Block. Look at the current situation. Even before Covid-19 this plot of land has seen delay after delay after delay. If the market downtown has never been better, then why has this plot of land stood vacant for so long? How long has Campus Martius Park been around? Given the attractiveness of the area, you would think someone would have put their headquarters on the Monroe Block soon after the success of Campus Martius Park.

I get it, you guys, along with Gilbert, want to hold out for that primo company like Amazon to say that they want to be in the heart of Downtown Detroit. The fact is that's not going to happen. In the meantime, get some residents down there for a 24 hour community. I mean, does an office building command that much more profit than a residential building? School me.

[Satiricalivory]

I don't understand you. Nothing you said contradicts the fact that this lot would be best utilized as office space. Bedrock is obviously preoccupied with other projects aka Hudsons, how is that not obvious? Most large scale office buildings like this take many years of planning before becoming reality, this is not unique.

[313rd]

Wasting no time...

[313rd]

I still believe that the project will move forward, but due to Jail, Book Tower and Hudson Site that Bedrock is going to push forward and complete all those projects first, before starting Monroe Block.

[CR75]

Satiricalivory, you and others keep saying this area is "prime office space." Yet, Gilbert has not been able to get anything off the ground.

Literally the Quicken Loans, StockX and Ally headquarters are within hundreds of feet away from the site. Seems rather "prime" to me for Michigan.

It would make no sense to build the Monroe Blocks with no office space component, like you propose. It has been shown time and again that mixed-use developments are better both in terms of urban development and in terms of financial sustainability, by allowing the developer to diversify its real-estate portfolio.

Sounds to me that the "delay" in getting the Monroe Blocks off the ground is entirely due to the massive Hudson's site project going on. Once that is in its final phase, you will see Monroe taking off. Why would they build them at the same time? it would be a logistics and financing nightmare, it would be awful for traffic and living conditions downtown, and once completed they would compete for tenants. Common sense imho.

[motorcity]

Wasting no time...

This city is a joke. City council and state lawmakers need to claw back any and all public dollars from this site immediately.

[motorcity]

Sounds to me that the "delay" in getting the Monroe Blocks off the ground is entirely due to the massive Hudson's site project going on. Once that is in its final phase, you will see Monroe taking off. Why would they build them at the same time? it would be a logistics and financing nightmare, it would be awful for traffic and living conditions downtown, and once completed they would compete for tenants. Common sense imho.

I still believe that the project will move forward, but due to Jail, Book Tower and Hudson Site that Bedrock is going to push forward and complete all those projects first, before starting Monroe Block.

The "Hudson's project" does not exist, it's still a hole in the ground 37 months after groundbreaking. This level of bootlicking and coping you all exhibit is so sad. Sam Riddle just spoke on the Monroe Block development in 910AM Superstation. To paraphrase, he said y'all need to wise up to the mega millions in public incentives Bedrock took from real Detroiters for this fake project, which has now become a drive-in theatre.

[gumby]

This city is a joke.

That's nice.

[EGrant]

It will be interesting to see the impact COVID has on office space moving forward. I know a lot of buildings in Detroit and around the world were typically packed to the gills with people on their floorplans. The "open office" concept meant companies could put a bunch of people on long tables and in pods, very close together. I think there may be a need for more spread out floorplans, which would mean less density of workers, which might mean bigger space requirements for some of these companies.

Of course, hybrid work from home/office models could mean that only a certain percentage of the workforce will be in the office at a time, but like I said in a different thread, I think people want to return to the office environment when it safe.

[401don]

It will be interesting to see the impact COVID has on office space moving forward. I know a lot of buildings in Detroit and around the world were typically packed to the gills with people on their floorplans. The "open office" concept meant companies could put a bunch of people on long tables and in pods, very close together. I think there may be a need for more spread out floorplans, which would mean less density of workers, which might mean bigger space requirements for some of these companies.

Of course, hybrid work from home/office models could mean that only a certain percentage of the workforce will be in the office at a time, but like I said in a different thread, I think people want to return to the office environment when it safe.

I've heard others say this as well but I don't understand the logic. Either the virus is still spreading or it's not. Are you saying we won't be having any large gatherings - sports, concerts, church, even restaurants from now on? I don't see how there's a need for distancing in an office when this is over.

[Satiricalivory]

It will be interesting to see the impact COVID has on office space moving forward.

Bedrock seems pretty confident in the office market. Remember they increased the size of the office portion at Hudsons site, which is above ground right now.

[ndavies]

This city is a joke. City council and state lawmakers need to claw back any and all public dollars from this site immediately.

Somebody doesn't understand how tax incentives work.

All the incentives do is help the developer with the future tax increases caused by building a new building. If you don't build the building there are no tax increases.

Nobody gets a big check from the government when they start building. They just get a credit on their future tax bills when the project is done. So there's nothing to claw back if the building isn't built.

[EGrant]

I've heard others say this as well but I don't understand the logic. Either the virus is still spreading or it's not. Are you saying we won't be having any large gatherings - sports, concerts, church, even restaurants from now on? I don't see how there's a need for distancing in an office when this is over.

That's a fair point, and I am just speculating out loud, but I predict we'll be more sensitive to illnesses in general in the future. There was data even before COVID showing these packed offices did lead to easier spread of germs. I don't think we'll come out of this and just go back to how life was in 2019, and my guess is it could have an impact on how offices are designed.

[royce]

I don't understand you. Nothing you said contradicts the fact that this lot would be best utilized as office space. Bedrock is obviously preoccupied with other projects aka Hudsons, how is that not obvious? Most large scale office buildings like this take many years of planning before becoming reality, this is not unique.

Satiricalivory, you're ignoring the fact that Meridian Medical had plans to build an office building on the site. This was way before the Hudson's site had any serious plans. Meridian chose to move into the Compuware Building instead. Then Bedrock announced that they were going to build office space on the Monroe Block but they had no tenant. So, yes it's prime office space land, but there doesn't seem to be any takers. How long should Bedrock hold out?

I think residential where the drive-in is going is the way to go. Why continue to leave this spot vacant when a residential tower could do wonders? Isn't there more of a need for residential downtown than office? Again, Bedrock doesn't even have a solid office tenant for the Hudson's site yet. Even mixed-use on the Monroe Block is fine, and that's the plan. I would rather see the residential closer to Campus Martius than have it off of Randolph.

BTW, whoever said that they can't do both is using a weak argument. Traffic wouldn't be a problem if both sites had construction going on at the same time. Other cities have multiple construction projects going on at the same time just blocks from each other. They manage.