Monroe Block Development

**Metro25** · November-09-19, 11:03 AM

This will obviously be built eventually. Quicken and the family of companies will need the space with their absurdly high growth and complex mixed use projects do not just happen right away as some are saying.

I think people forget how much Bedrock is juggling right now. Countless major renovations and new construction. Nobody but the most skilled and competent development company could pull this sort of stuff off we're very lucky to have them as most other cities would kill for it.

**313WX** · November-09-19, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Metro25

This will obviously be built eventually. Quicken and the family of companies will need the space with their absurdly high growth and complex mixed use projects do not just happen right away as some are saying.

I think people forget how much Bedrock is juggling right now. Countless major renovations and new construction. Nobody but the most skilled and competent development company could pull this sort of stuff off we're very lucky to have them as most other cities would kill for it.

Saying "most other cities would kill for it" is quite the exaggeration.

Most cities don't need only one developmemt company because they have tens, if not hundreds of Bedrocks / Quickens / Gilberts working on various projects of this scale right now

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · November-09-19, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Saying "most other cities would kill for it" is quite the exaggeration.

Most cities don't need only one developmemt company because they have tens, if not hundreds of Bedrocks / Quickens / Gilberts working on various projects of this scale right now

Most cities have hundreds of Bedrocks/Quickens/Gilberts working on projects of this size? Now THAT is an exaggeration.

**Dmberko11** · November-09-19, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

Most cities have hundreds of Bedrocks/Quickens/Gilberts working on projects of this size? Now THAT is an exaggeration.

Maybe not hundreds? But I swear, where I live in Austin, not a day goes by where some new tower isn’t announced. Wish I could spread the love and send some development that way to Michigan!! I’m worried what next year’s recession will do to Detroits’s development....

**Metro25** · November-09-19, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Saying "most other cities would kill for it" is quite the exaggeration.

I don't think so. Setting aside New York, Chicago, Bay Area, Boston, Seattle or LA, maybe Philly since those are the only cities that get similar urban friendly large scale projects. Still all of them would very much want a Bedrock.

Most cities don't need only one developmemt company because they have tens, if not hundreds of Bedrocks / Quickens / Gilberts working on various projects of this scale right now

Most cities have development companies who's only goal is to please shareholders and not carry out a vision that's better for society in the long run. I cant think of a single developer that's doing exactly what Bedrock is and delivering the same quality.

No US city has hundreds of hometown billionaire developers... That's just false. New York City has a bit over a hundred Billionaires in total.

**Scottathew** · November-09-19, 01:55 PM

When folks have said that nothing is happening at the Hudson's site, I have combated that falsehood.

To say that nothing is happening at the Monroe blocks site is an accurate statement.

I don't buy that it has anything to do with One Campus Martius or the Hudson's site. I think it has everything to do with market conditions, demand, and financing.

Gilbert\Bedrock still has plenty of credibility with what they have renovated and built. If they Hudson's site is stalled for whatever reason I hope they will just be honest.

For me the big focus right now is the Hudson's site. I hope that it gets finished. All the evidence at the Hudson's site suggests they are fully committed. Hopefully it will add onto the snowball and help build momentum toward the Monroe Blocks.

Although, realistically, a recession is coming and could delay some of the skyward progress beyond the Hudson's site.

**313WX** · November-09-19, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Dmberko11

Maybe not hundreds? But I swear, where I live in Austin, not a day goes by where some new tower isn’t announced. Wish I could spread the love and send some development that way to Michigan!! I’m worried what next year’s recession will do to Detroits’s development....

Thanks for getting my point, that being there are numerous developers like Bedrock working on large scale projects in most cities. So there's no reason for them to trade that for Detroit's situations.

To your point about a new tower being announced practically daily, same goes for Atlanta, Nashville, Seattle, Chicago, etc.

**Metro25** · November-09-19, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

Thanks for getting my point, that being there are numerous developers like Bedrock working on large scale projects in most cities. So there's no reason for them to trade that for Detroit's situations.

Your point is entirely unrelated to what I said. There is no single developer in Austin doing as much as Bedrock is in Detroit compare apples to apples not oranges. They would kill to have a Bedrock all to themselves. Detroit also has numerous developers and investors at this point.

It sounds like you just dont want to admit that Bedrock is unique when they obviously are.

**313WX** · November-09-19, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Metro25

There is no single developer in Austin doing as much as Bedrock is in Detroit....

That's a good thing.

In fact, it's actually a lot more precarious to have one man/developer alone pursuing projects like the Hudson site or Monroe Block [[what if Bedrock weny belly up, or Dan Gilbert suddenly died and his empire was acquired by a NYC-based venture capital firm?).

So why would Austin or most other cities "kill for that?"

Detroit also has numerous developers and investors at this point.

With exception to that 1 involved in the project on the site of the Hammer-and-Nail building in Midtown, please name the other developers that are working on high rises in Detroit.

**NSortzi** · November-09-19, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

With exception to that 1 involved in the project on the site of the Hammer-and-Nail building in Midtown, please name the other developers that are working on high rises in Detroit.

Assuming you’re talking about The Mid, there’s...
TCF Bank
The Ilitches are working on the Eddystone currently
The Park Avenue Building reno is still planned
Ford with MCS
Albert Kahn Building and Chroma in New Center

There’s a few others I can’t think of off the top of my head, and several potential high rises to be officially announced in the next couple years [[Opera House tower, potential high rise on the Joe Louis site)

And there’s other huge projects underway that aren’t high rises like Gordie Howe International Bridge.

**Metro25** · November-09-19, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by NSortzi

Assuming you’re talking about The Mid, there’s...
TCF Bank
The Ilitches are working on the Eddystone currently
The Park Avenue Building reno is still planned
Ford with MCS
Albert Kahn Building and Chroma in New Center

Also Roxbury Group with the formerly West Elm hotel and Lee Plaza. They were also the ones who did Hammer and Nail and the Whitney Building so maybe they dont count...

Lafayette West, which seems to be in limbo right now though. I also saw a new render of Brush+Watson on the architect's Instagram and it shows they've added a small high rise to the project.

**Dmberko11** · November-09-19, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by Metro25

Also Roxbury Group with the formerly West Elm hotel and Lee Plaza. They were also the ones who did Hammer and Nail and the Whitney Building so maybe they dont count...

Lafayette West, which seems to be in limbo right now though. I also saw a new render of Brush+Watson on the architect's Instagram and it shows they've added a small high rise to the project.

Hey, nice find on the brush + Watson project. Looks good! Visited the architect’s instagram and saw the new renderings.

Other successful cities like Austin, Seattle, Atlanta and so on don’t need a savior like Bedrock to resurrect them from the dead. Detroit still needs more players. While it’s true bedrock isn’t the only developer in town...without them?? Detroit’s development would be seriously stunted. You wouldn’t be seeing many if not ANY new high rises. And obviously skyscrapers aren’t the only form of development but nevertheless, they are a good sign that a city is doing well economically. Hopefully Detroit can get some new hotels built. And I’m not talking boutique. Lol. The Hudson’s is definitely a landmark project and let’s hope they land a big chain so this project can be the catalyst for more to come. I think the Monroe project will eventually happen. But with the recession around the corner I have my doubts if or when it’ll happen. It’d be sad to see it scrapped as that is greatly needed in downtown Detroit.

**313WX** · November-09-19, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by NSortzi

Assuming you’re talking about The Mid...

Yes, that's the one.

**Metro25** · November-09-19, 06:12 PM

Why are you changing goal posts to high-rises? I said developers and investors. There's a lot going on and a lot of people involved.

The point is Bedrock is an exceptional developer that any city would be drooling over themselves to have, period. Considering the cult Detroit-focused culture of the conglomerate's leadership group they're not going anywhere any time soon.

If you disagree that's fine. But I'd rather this off topic argument not go on for any longer and obviously neither of us are changing our views.

**313WX** · November-09-19, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by Metro25

Why are you changing goal posts to high-rises?

To be clear, the context that led to your sidebar comment [[when you said "this is will obviously be built eventually") was the prospects of The Monroe Block development [[a high-rise project) coming to fruition.

**THE FURY 617** · June-17-20, 12:05 AM

According to user "Michigan48" from skyscraperpage.com, He went by the site the other day and noticed a sign that said Neuman Smith/Bedrock is attempting over a Zoom meeting on the 23rd to change the zoning to allow for a 535' tower that is 95' wide with 15 loading docks as opposed to the 450' tall tower that is 60' wide and with 6 loading docks. It also said the structure would bee about 946,000 square feet. This is interesting because it means Bedrock is still thinking the tower could be as large as originally proposed. To me that either means they somehow secured an anchor tenant or they think Quicken takes up enough space to built the tower at its original scale.

user "DetroitSportsFan" also
Found this on the board of zoning appeal’s website.
https://detroitmi.gov/sites/detroitm...%2C%202020.pdf

**Dexlin** · June-17-20, 01:08 AM

To be clear, this isn't a change in the height of the office tower, rather the official request for a variance from what would be allowed by-right at the site. It's still being proposed around the original 536' we saw it last proposed at.

Anyway, nice find. I'm not really surprised. I'd think that it'd be office space that will rebound first before things like hotels. And the governor was just talking about, today, changing regulations that allow for more spacious offices. So the trend of increasing smaller workspaces has been completely turned on its head for the forseeable future.

**Scottathew** · June-17-20, 06:52 AM

One thing to think about is that Gilbert's companies didn't have a lot of space to begin with, with employees crammed into the floor plans of buildings in open-office designs. In a post-COVID world they may need more space for employees.

**stinkytofu** · June-17-20, 10:14 AM

Not to be a debbie downer, but some big time tech companies are having their employees stay home basically forever [[Twitter). This seems to be the "cool" thing to do to keep young employees happy. Quicken wants that type of talent. I'm in a wait and see approach, but still fairly strongly feel office demand downtown is going to take a significant hit from this.

Nonetheless, unexpected good news about the Monroe Block there. Would love to be proven wrong.

**JonWylie** · June-17-20, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by stinkytofu

Not to be a debbie downer, but some big time tech companies are having their employees stay home basically forever [[Twitter). This seems to be the "cool" thing to do to keep young employees happy. Quicken wants that type of talent. I'm in a wait and see approach, but still fairly strongly feel office demand downtown is going to take a significant hit from this.

Nonetheless, unexpected good news about the Monroe Block there. Would love to be proven wrong.

There's really no point in speculating about what the demand for office space will be in the future. Until we see some companies in Detroit actually cancelling their leases, it should be expected that people will come back to work when it's safe.

**313WX** · June-17-20, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by stinkytofu

Not to be a debbie downer, but some big time tech companies are having their employees stay home basically forever [[Twitter). This seems to be the "cool" thing to do to keep young employees happy. Quicken wants that type of talent. I'm in a wait and see approach, but still fairly strongly feel office demand downtown is going to take a significant hit from this.

Nonetheless, unexpected good news about the Monroe Block there. Would love to be proven wrong.

The tech industry has a completely different culture.

Detroit's companies, conversely, have a very old school mindset. AIS is the expectation.

**Atticus** · June-17-20, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by 313WX

The tech industry has a completely different culture.

Detroit's companies, conversely, have a very old school mindset. AIS is the expectation.

One other aspect to keep in mind:

If a worker never has to report to the office, then theoretically it doesn’t matter where they live. As long as they have an Internet connection, they could live in Hawaii and still “work” in One Campus Martius.

And while that may not matter to a business itself [[provided the worker can get the job done), it does matter to Bedrock/Gilbert. Given the residential and first floor commercial space they own, Bedrock’s is at an advantage to have people living, eating, and reporting to the office in Downtown Detroit. Even if it is only for a day a week, having that report to the office setup keeps workers tethered to downtown, which Gilbert obviously wants.

**EGrant** · June-17-20, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Atticus

And while that may not matter to a business itself [[provided the worker can get the job done), it does matter to Bedrock/Gilbert. Given the residential and first floor commercial space they own, Bedrock’s is at an advantage to have people living, eating, and reporting to the office in Downtown Detroit. Even if it is only for a day a week, having that report to the office setup keeps workers tethered to downtown, which Gilbert obviously wants.

Exactly, the tech companies don't care about investing in Palo Alto and San Francisco all that much.

**Atticus** · June-19-20, 07:13 PM

If the 535’ height holds, this tower would become Detroit’s 5th tallest.

1- RenCen [[727’) 2- Hudson’s [[680’). 3-Ally [[619’). 4- Penobscot [[565’). 5- Monroe Tower [[535’)

**Satiricalivory** · June-17-20, 11:15 AM

Wasn't Duggan teasing a big office relocation to the city awhile ago?

You guys think this might have something to do with that? I mean what other building this deep in the planning process would put a roof under such a thing?