Monroe Block Development

[stasu1213]

I think that a residential/office concept should be the trend when building a new residential complex on the Monroe Block. GM, Meridian or Compuware, and other offices downtown have low occupation rates due to employees preferring to work remotely. Maybe a complex could be developed where the unit spaces could be a hybrid of apartments and workspaces.

[THE FURY 617]

Huge thanks to user "greatlakes" from skyscraperpage.com for posting this. Downtown Development Authority is going to give us an update on the Monroe Blocks project TODAY!! About time!!!!

https://degc.wpenginepowered.com/wp-...ing-Agenda.pdf

[Scottathew]

For those of you that can't get into the PDF, here's the Zoom link for the meeting that occurs at today at 3pm [2/22/2023]:

Join Zoom Meeting: https://us06web.zoom.us/j/8612762811...FiZVNoRUVGUT09
Meeting ID: 861 2762 8116
Passcode: 776902

Huge thanks to user "greatlakes" from skyscraperpage.com for posting this. Downtown Development Authority is going to give us an update on the Monroe Blocks project TODAY!! About time!!!!

https://degc.wpenginepowered.com/wp-...ing-Agenda.pdf

[angry_fred]

For those of you that can't get into the PDF, here's the Zoom link for the meeting that occurs at today at 3pm [2/22/2023]:

Join Zoom Meeting: https://us06web.zoom.us/j/8612762811...FiZVNoRUVGUT09
Meeting ID: 861 2762 8116
Passcode: 776902

I wasn't able to attend, can you summarize what happened?

[ShadowSoarer]

Some updates from the Monroe Blocks meeting:

• Monroe Theater Facade will be moved toward Cadillac Square
• Market Hall [[similar to Chelsea Market in NYC) will be attached to the facade

• Phase A1 is anticipated to begin Sept. 1, 2024
• Overall square footage is about the same however office space is cut by about half and residential units are reduced but Cadillac Tower will have residential units.

[kuuma]

There may have been more renders before I joined the call, but the gist is:

Phase 1: Concert Venue incorporating the National Theatre facade and "market hall" [[open-air retail/dining hangout area) as phase 1, breaking ground after the NFL Draft

Phase 2: Office Tower

Phase 3: Residential

They emphasized the Cadillac Tower as a more integrated component to the residential offering. Oh and tons of new parking. :[[

Overall pretty pragmatic, not really very ambitious. Kinda meh. Unanimously approved.

[southen]

At one point I was more excited about Monroe Blocks than Hudson's because of the design and how they approached the two oddly shaped sites and created an amazing street wall for Campus Martius.

This is cheap and a glorified mall that takes a majority of the Campus Martius fronting site and places a stout 4 story building there. It will look as out of place and thoughtless as the new city club does fronting Grand Circus.

It has been hard to fault Bedrock and Gilbert over the years but they floated a beautiful design for this site then repeatedly delayed construction and now we get this which is just their Midway on steroids. They did the same when teasing Hudson's would be 912 feet then reduced it immediately after getting the tax breaks. It reeks of the Ilitch playbook. For everything they have gotten right with the Hudson's Site from a design perspective, they are doing the opposite here. You can easily have all these entertainment options at the base of a tower but they are going cheap to honor basic commitments to the city about developing the land and they are doing it at the cost of good urban design.

Yuck.

[kuuma]

if I were SHL I'd be pissed to have put the work in to create that amazing design, for them to switch down to this 5 years later. is there any authority that oversees this that can compel them to build the original design? the more i think about this new one the more disappointing it feels... yet no one voted no. one committee member was like "is this design better?" and bedrock was like "yea" so he voted in favor.

it also feels like the super bowl again, where the city gets in its own way to present a pretty front for the out-of-towners, only instead of hiding blight by destroying old buildings they're delaying new ones because construction is somehow unsightly? i'm not convinced these events are helpful for the city at all.

[southen]

I just read a Crain's article regarding it and the head of Bedrock stated that the success of the Monroe Street Drive-In influenced the new programming of the site. They have someone running the show who thinks that a drive-in in the middle of downtown is a fresh take on urbanism. That a mall in a downtown struggling with street fronting retail right now is a good idea. I thought these were design mistakes from the past that people actually learned from. Maybe they can install a red jungle gym the length of Cadillac square while they are at it.

[401don]

I just read a Crain's article regarding it and the head of Bedrock stated that the success of the Monroe Street Drive-In influenced the new programming of the site. They have someone running the show who thinks that a drive-in in the middle of downtown is a fresh take on urbanism. That a mall in a downtown struggling with street fronting retail right now is a good idea. I thought these were design mistakes from the past that people actually learned from. Maybe they can install a red jungle gym the length of Cadillac square while they are at it.

If they make the bars a little lower than those on Washington Blvd. so you can reach them they might actually try it!

[masterblaster]

I just read a Crain's article regarding it and the head of Bedrock stated that the success of the Monroe Street Drive-In influenced the new programming of the site. They have someone running the show who thinks that a drive-in in the middle of downtown is a fresh take on urbanism. That a mall in a downtown struggling with street fronting retail right now is a good idea. I thought these were design mistakes from the past that people actually learned from. Maybe they can install a red jungle gym the length of Cadillac square while they are at it.

I am disappointed with the height of the concert venue/market hall fronting Campus Martius...

However, due to everybody and they mama claiming they are never going back to the office again, downtown Detroit needs to pivot from banking its revival on office workers, to trying to position itself as an entertainment, dining, and retail juggernaut.

Since downtown won't be the employment center as we had hoped pre-pandemic, then make it the place where more and more people are compelled to come down here for the unique activities and cultural amenities. Market Hall type places are very popular gathering places, as evidenced by DC's Union Hall and Minneapolis' Midtown Market.

The event venue will contribute to making downtown the premier performing arts center in the state.

[Gistok]

Whatever their lack of merit, one positive of all of this is the fate of the National Theatre front/towers. Instead of just moving just the towers and outer arch to front a closed Farmer Street pedestrian zone, they are saving the entire facade including the great window and ornate terra cotta surrounding it... to facing Cadillac Square... as a Marketplace entrance, a better reuse of the beautiful National facade.

I agree with being disappointed with some of the other stuff though. And it looks like Farmer Street will remain as an open thoroughfare.

[southen]

I am disappointed with the height of the concert venue/market hall fronting Campus Martius...

However, due to everybody and they mama claiming they are never going back to the office again, downtown Detroit needs to pivot from banking its revival on office workers, to trying to position itself as an entertainment, dining, and retail juggernaut.

Since downtown won't be the employment center as we had hoped pre-pandemic, then make it the place where more and more people are compelled to come down here for the unique activities and cultural amenities. Market Hall type places are very popular gathering places, as evidenced by DC's Union Hall and Minneapolis' Midtown Market.

The event venue will contribute to making downtown the premier performing arts center in the state.

Isn't downtown already the premier performing arts center in the state? Everything you said makes perfect sense, but you have Related, a much larger and more successful company than Bedrock, betting on office coming back and proposing two new towers and another low rise structure. Broken Ilitch promises aside more and more companies and requiring more time in the office for employees. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if five years from now things are back to how they were simply because it aids in productivity.

I also don't mind focusing on residential and entertainment as a big part of the project. But they overall dropped the number of residential units and the new residential construction is the last piece of this project when demand to live downtown is still at near record highs.

If they built out this portion of the site where the theater actually is located now and towards Greektown I would be perfectly fine with that. Fronting Campus Martius tells me that this entire project as it stands now "might" happen and that the phased approach with the cheapest option first is just to satisfy the agreement with the city. Why would you build out residential last and not utilize the part of the site where Cadillac Tower's elevators are instead opting to put that building on the back of the parcel and right up against a wall of windows in CT where you are also putting residential? It is planning done by accountants, not designers.

[401don]

if I were SHL I'd be pissed to have put the work in to create that amazing design, for them to switch down to this 5 years later. is there any authority that oversees this that can compel them to build the original design? the more i think about this new one the more disappointing it feels... yet no one voted no. one committee member was like "is this design better?" and bedrock was like "yea" so he voted in favor.

it also feels like the super bowl again, where the city gets in its own way to present a pretty front for the out-of-towners, only instead of hiding blight by destroying old buildings they're delaying new ones because construction is somehow unsightly? i'm not convinced these events are helpful for the city at all.

I'm sure Bedrock is in no hurry to start construction and the draft gives them an excuse to further delay. Given the change in market conditions I'm surprised anything is getting done since it looked like this was being delayed indefinitely. I'm sure saying the design is better really meant, "yea, given the market it makes more sense."

[detmsp]

I'd take a lot of this with a grain of salt, especially the residential phase. That doesn't even start construction for 5 years. It won't open until 2031 if everything goes to plan. A lot can change between now and then.

[Atticus]

Another +1 vote on being disappointed with the design change.

I have always hated the large nearly-windowless wall of the Cadillac Tower facing Campus Martius. Maybe nice for advertising dollars, but I always thought it made the view look incomplete or abandoned, as obviously that wall was left windowless for whatever future structure would eventually cover it…. And now instead we are getting a 4-story structure that will leave the eyesore intact.

Frankly, even if Bedrock consolidated everything new in an adjacent midrise tower just to cover that Cadillac “wall”, and left the other block and a half vacant for eventual future construction, I would have been ok with it. But the fact that they are building new and leaving the eyesore up for future generations….

Just poor architecture and disappointing.

[Gistok]

If Campus Martius were busy like this on most weekends of the year, then a Market Hall located on the left side of this image would make sense... but I don't think that is the case. Don't want to see another Trappers Alley or Ren Cen Wintergarden... where it is busy in the beginning, but it soon turns into an empty shell when the novelty wears off...

[southen]

They had a high end food court concept that failed miserably on Fort Street. The previous design was great because it incorporated retail but created outdoor public spaces, something that could be put to use even if the retail failed.

[masterblaster]

They had a high end food court concept that failed miserably on Fort Street. The previous design was great because it incorporated retail but created outdoor public spaces, something that could be put to use even if the retail failed.

The Fort Street Galley Food Hall was not high end. It had 4 restaurant stalls and a bar. One of the food stalls was named, "Which came First?" [[Chicken or the Egg). Michigan and Trumbull pizza started there. There was also a BBQ place and a Filipino stall. The Galley group closed their food halls in Chicago and Cleveland around the same time, so the fault of failure was theirs.

I recently visited Hartford, Connecticut, and they converted an existing warehouse building a few miles from downtown into a Food Hall that was as busy as all get out. The success of the Detroit Shipping Company in Midtown also indicates these places can be popular amenities.

The food halls of DC and Minneapolis I linked to are MILES AWAY from those respective city's downtowns. If these type of places can thrive in the neighborhoods of cities, then this type of place can succeed in the Central Business District of our city.

I guess the people on this forum only shop on-line, I was under the impression a big component of downtown's revival was to bring back the shopping districts. Gucci just opened a store, Rihanna is opening another on Woodward.

[EGrant]

I am totally fine with this update. We don't need to be rushing to build massive office towers post-pandemic, and the success of the drive-in and other stuff going on in the parking lot there now proved a desire for entertainment. Bedrock has a pretty good track record of hosting events and "activations" that people truly enjoy, so I doubt this would be anything like that Fort Street food hall [[which was too far off the beaten path anyway).

It's a design that fits Detroit, not a design that wants to make Detroit something else. Scaling down to a midrise is a much better fit than a high-rise right now anyway.

[Gistok]

One other thing about the new proposal. The "National Theatre" event space. It is too early to figure out what Bedrock has in mind for this.

I do NOT think this is going to be just another theatre downtown. Here's why... the space listed for that is 60,000 sf. in that PDF file. That's way too much for a single theatre space. The main floor [Orchestra level] of the Detroit Fox Theatre is about 40,000 sf., so this might be divided into smaller venue spaces on multiple floors. There is just not the room for 60,000 sf. on one floor, and it would be an enormous space if it was.

I could see this being a multi-floor multiplex theatre perhaps, maybe with some other event space added in. Maybe it might have some reminders of old movie palaces in the space. The facade is perfect for a nostalgic looking movie palace vibe theatre entrance, except this would likely be a multiplex.

[Satiricalivory]

This thing screams placeholder. They have no concrete plans for this site anymore.

Can they just leave the theater exactly where it is and just give it a new interior?

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

I’m 65. I’ve given up hope for living to see the Monroe Block redeveloped. I’m not expecting to live to 95. I’ve already been waiting since 1982 when I looked out at it from my office in the First National Building.

[Gistok]

This thing screams placeholder. They have no concrete plans for this site anymore.

Can they just leave the theater exactly where it is and just give it a new interior?

It will cost Bedrock a couple million dollars to move the theatre facade [[and delete the bare theatre behind it). I don't think they will move it unless that part of the plan is firm.

[401don]

I recently visited Hartford, Connecticut, and they converted an existing warehouse building a few miles from downtown into a Food Hall that was as busy as all get out. The success of the Detroit Shipping Company in Midtown also indicates these places can be popular amenities.

The food halls of DC and Minneapolis I linked to are MILES AWAY from those respective city's downtowns. If these type of places can thrive in the neighborhoods of cities, then this type of place can succeed in the Central Business District of our city.

I guess the people on this forum only shop on-line, I was under the impression a big component of downtown's revival was to bring back the shopping districts. Gucci just opened a store, Rihanna is opening another on Woodward.

They key to both the food halls and retail is lots of nearby residents with solid incomes.