Olympia Clueless About What to Do With Fine Arts Facade?

**leland_palmer** · August-17-09, 04:47 PM

It seems that everyone greatest fear is true.
Fine Art Building's facade being preserved for future reuse.

Kelli B. Kavanaugh
Model D
http://www.modeldmedia.com/developme...arts20409.aspx

The future use for the Fine Arts -- designed by Louis Kamper, also known as the architect of the Book Cadillac Hotel -- has not yet been determined, according to Karen Cullen, spokesperson for Ilitch Holdings, the parent company of Olympia. In a statement she released, Atanas Ilitch, Olympia's president, says, "We are confident that the faÃ§ade of the historic Fine Arts Building can be preserved and ultimately integrated into a new development that will occupy the site at some point in the future."

I would like to believe that they know exactly what they are going to do with the facade but are being they usual secretive selves, not wanting to possible drive up real estate prices, etc. However, it is just as likely that the decided to knock down the building with no plan in place. I wonder how long the facade will be sitting there before the building and safety department decides that it is unsafe and demand that it be pulled down?

**Novine** · August-17-09, 05:30 PM

The first good wind storm should take care of that.

crawford · August-17-09, 05:39 PM

You guys are too much.

They obviously kept the facade to appease the armchair presevationists who like to complain whenever a worthless, collapsing building is demolished, and now people are complaining about the preserved facade already.

Would you have preferred they just demolished the facade too?

There is NO market for any new construction right now in downtown Detroit. None. Let them sit on the property for a few years, and see what happens.

**dcmorrison12** · August-18-09, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by crawford

You guys are too much.

They obviously kept the facade to appease the armchair presevationists who like to complain whenever a worthless, collapsing building is demolished, and now people are complaining about the preserved facade already.

Would you have preferred they just demolished the facade too?

There is NO market for any new construction right now in downtown Detroit. None. Let them sit on the property for a few years, and see what happens.

Hm.. that's funny, then how come there's multiple construction sites throughout the area? Crawford, again and as usual, you are clueless about the TRUE happenings of Detroit.

crawford · August-18-09, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by dcmorrison12

Hm.. that's funny, then how come there's multiple construction sites throughout the area? Crawford, again and as usual, you are clueless about the TRUE happenings of Detroit.

Well then why don't you educate me?

Please inform me of these numerous construction sites around Grand Circus Park.

The most recent new construction highrise would be the government-subsidized Trolley Plaza way back 30 years ago. I cannot think of another major new construction tower in this part of downtown.

But I'm sure you can educate me, right?

**Gistok** · August-18-09, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by crawford

Well then why don't you educate me?

Please inform me of these numerous construction sites around Grand Circus Park.

The most recent new construction highrise would be the government-subsidized Trolley Plaza way back 30 years ago. I cannot think of another major new construction tower in this part of downtown.

But I'm sure you can educate me, right?

No, I think you're beyond being educated... your mind has been made up long ago... so there's no reason to confuse you with the facts....

You would have been a good candidate for "enlightenment" at last weeks downtown Movie Palace Tours... but you don't seem to count "adaptive reuse" as redevelopment, since it doesn't involve starting with a demo-ed empty lot and only building anew.

Your "blinders" will only allow you to see new construction as Grand Circus Park improvement, and not the improvements of rehabbed buildings such as the Kales, Fyfe, Colony Club, Palms, Fox, former Hughes & Hatcher, Gem/Century, Barden, DAC, Capitol, Milner, Madison, and District Court buildings....

In your narrow viewpoint... all you see is a new baseball and football stadiums, and little else...

EastSider · August-18-09, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

No, I think you're beyond being educated... your mind has been made up long ago... so there's no reason to confuse you with the facts....

You would have been a good candidate for "enlightenment" at last weeks downtown Movie Palace Tours... but you don't seem to count "adaptive reuse" as redevelopment, since it doesn't involve starting with a demo-ed empty lot and only building anew.

Your "blinders" will only allow you to see new construction as Grand Circus Park improvement, and not the improvements of rehabbed buildings such as the Kales, Fyfe, Colony Club, Palms, Fox, former Hughes & Hatcher, Gem/Century, Barden, DAC, Capitol, Milner, Madison, and District Court buildings....

In your narrow viewpoint... all you see is a new baseball and football stadiums, and little else...

All of those projects are yesterday's news. Crawford's talking about CURRENT construction.

I'd like to know where those are, too.

**1KielsonDrive** · August-17-09, 05:54 PM

Olympia is just plain 'clueless' about everything. This is reminiscent of the Cadillac block facade on Monroe [[next to the theatre) that was left standing for decades. It was scheduled to be incorporated in some project or other until they could ignore it no longer - one good blow and it was going over.

**Novine** · August-18-09, 12:42 AM

"They obviously kept the facade to appease the armchair presevationists who like to complain whenever a worthless, collapsing building is demolished, and now people are complaining about the preserved facade already. "

Wrong. People were complaining about the stupidity of tearing down the building with no plan to replace it. The building was in a "worthless, collapsing" condition because the slumload/owner Ilitch failed to maintain it properly.

crawford · August-18-09, 01:29 AM

Originally Posted by Novine

Wrong. People were complaining about the stupidity of tearing down the building with no plan to replace it. The building was in a "worthless, collapsing" condition because the slumload/owner Ilitch failed to maintain it properly.

A worthless property will generally not be maintained "properly".

It may be the right thing to do, but most people will not play Mother Theresa and sink dollars into a bottomless pit. There has to be some sort of incentive.

The Illitches run a business, not a charity. The site is worth more as parking for their venues. They did not have to keep the facade, but they were nice enough to do so.

Now let's sit tight and see if the market improves.

**royce** · August-18-09, 03:24 AM

The question to ask is , "What is the world's record for the longest time a facade has stood without a building?" Looks like we're going to find out. At least the developer that did the Mid-Med Lofts Building wasted no time attaching the facade to the new structure. Also, Grand Circus Park is going to look real attractive for years to come with scaffolding hovering over the sidewalk and a facade and empty space to look at.

Why not build a small residential development to go with the facade, extended to the alley? Use the empty space on Elizabeth for parking. This way the parking lot helps to defray the costs of building the residential unit. I mean really, doesn't Ilitch and his organization have any imagination or creativity? All they seem to do is tear down buildings for surface parking lots. At least build a parking deck from time to time. One on Elizabeth where the storage garage used to be would be a nice location. It can be integrated with the new Red Wings Arena that will be built diagonally, starting at the NE corner of Cass and Adams.

**detroitind** · August-18-09, 07:15 AM

There are many a facade that have stood with proper bracing for quite a long period. There are at least two in Montreals old port area that have been standing for at least 10 years. The one houses a patio/park space and the other outdoor seating for a restaurant. It is actually a cool unique feeling to have buildings on all sides of you and a open facade to the front.

I would love to see a restaurant or beer garden open in that area behind the facade if not a new building.

As long as it is braced properly there will be no issues.

**dnvn522** · August-18-09, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by crawford

The Illitches run a business, not a charity.

What about the Ilitch Charities they run?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

**3420** · August-18-09, 10:40 AM

The other day I went too my lunch spot at subway and I asked one of the demo guys what is Illitch going to do with the Fine Arts facade. He straight up told me that its going to sit for at least 4 years. I thought he was just joking but he was serious when he said it.

**ghettopalmetto** · August-18-09, 12:25 PM

Ilitch was going to ask the DEGC to come running with a bucket of demolition money, but then he heard they were strapped for cash too.

So he waits....

**Danny** · August-18-09, 12:33 PM

Illitchville is going the Fine Arts Building into one of his "PREMIER DEVELOPMENT OPPORTUNITIES" I can't wait to see what happen to the fine old buiding.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

Hello parking lot my old friend. How are you doing? Are you filling up those compact spaces with those cars. At least your attracting some people.

I'm about to go eat PIZZA PIZZA.

2blocksaway · August-18-09, 08:46 PM

maybe it will be an entrance to the new hockey arena

EastSider · August-18-09, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by 2blocksaway

maybe it will be an entrance to the new hockey arena

Who'd play on a rink that small? Midgets?

2blocksaway · August-18-09, 09:12 PM

it will be a big building. i am sure it could be incorporated somewhere.

**kraig** · August-19-09, 07:47 AM

Any ideas on what Olympia should do with the building? What is the seating capacity? What was the last show/concert that anyone attended there?

detmich · August-19-09, 10:27 AM

Crawford, why do you hate Detroit?

**dcmorrison12** · August-19-09, 11:06 AM

It's funny crawford, because you refuse to see how wrong you are.

The second I call you out on how there isn't any new development in Downtown Detroit, you quickly change your argument to JUST Grand Circus.

Then, I go on to list all of the projects which I thought off in 5 minutes off the top of my head at 1 in the morning - and yet again you start to argue a COMPLETELY different point which wasn't even part of the argument.

"Wetlands are signs of economic viability"
- Who said that was my argument? Again, proving to you there's new construction

"A bankrupt casino up for auction is indicative of a dynamic market?" - AGAIN, who said that was my argument. I'm proving to you there's new development

"A bus stop is a development project?"
-YES, a multimodal, state of the art transit facility is DEFINITELY a development project. It's essential for a thriving Downtown and will spur only possitve effects

"A rails-to-trails path is considered new construction?"
-Um... crains, tractors, back-hoes, new pavement... YEA, NEW CONSTRUCTION. It's a sign that Detroit is being reborn - into a new, viable, healthier, more fun and attractive place to live in the Greater downtown area. I'd say YES, a sign of market vitality - why go through to effort to build miles and miles of greenways in a desolate, god forsaken crap hole which you think all of Detroit is.

"Wayne State is now downtown?"

-YES, it IS downtowm, my god have you EVER been to Detroit? You literally know NOTHING about it and yet you hate it with a passion.

Look Crawford, you never have a nice to thing to say about Detroit, EVER. Detroit is my city, my neighborhood - I know more about it than you do. I don't know what suburb you live in, but I don't go around posting about how shitty it is and how wrong you are to like it.

Please, for the sake of us ALL, GOOOOO AWAAAAAYYYY

EastSider · August-19-09, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by dcmorrison12

"Wayne State is now downtown?"

-YES, it IS downtowm, my god have you EVER been to Detroit? You literally know NOTHING about it and yet you hate it with a passion.

Wayne State isn't 'downtown' and has never been considered 'downtown' except for people in the suburbs who think anything south of 8 Mile is 'downtown.' Wayne wasn't really ever considered a part of a 'district' until the recent rebranding of the Cass Corridor as "Midtown."

'Downtown' for Detroit has always been limited to the Central Business District.

Back to the development, the scorecard is a swamp, a sidewalk and a bus station. Yay, Detroit!

detmich · August-19-09, 12:42 PM

"A rails-to-trails path is considered new construction?"
-Um... crains, tractors, back-hoes, new pavement... YEA, NEW CONSTRUCTION. It's a sign that Detroit is being reborn - into a new, viable, healthier, more fun and attractive place to live in the Greater downtown area. I'd say YES, a sign of market vitality - why go through to effort to build miles and miles of greenways in a desolate, god forsaken crap hole which you think all of Detroit is.

Yes, that's all well and good, but is it sustainable?

**Gistok** · August-19-09, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by kraig

Any ideas on what Olympia should do with the building? What is the seating capacity? What was the last show/concert that anyone attended there?

Kraig, are you confusing the Fine Arts Building with the Adams Auditorium? The Fine Arts Building was the entrance way to the Adams Theatre. That 1,700 seat venue is now gone [[taken down at the same time as the Fine Arts Building structure)... only the facade of the office block still exists.

The Adams was closed in the late 1980s after a shooting there. It was not a concert venue, but showed movies, and IIRC, it was "twinned" [[parts walled off to make 2 theatres).