2017 Detroit Tigers

[401don]

Nutin' new hear: "there appears to be something of a gap between how the Tigers see Verlander and how the rest of the league sees him. Detroit seemingly is shopping him as if he’s still the ace he pitched like last season, not the average-ish starter he’s pitched like this season".

I don't think that's the case. It's everything to do with Verlander's contract. Even if he was 15-2 right now, teams are not going to risk paying 60 million for a 34 yr. old pitcher and give up decent prospects as well. If they don't get decent prospects in return then it's just a salary dump, which the Tigers said they weren't doing.

[emu steve]

I don't think that's the case. It's everything to do with Verlander's contract. Even if he was 15-2 right now, teams are not going to risk paying 60 million for a 34 yr. old pitcher and give up decent prospects as well. If they don't get decent prospects in return then it's just a salary dump, which the Tigers said they weren't doing.

Don, to me, it is a question whether the Tigs want to spend 28M / season for JV to remain competitive.

If JV and Fulm perform up to expectations in 2018 the Tigs will be a 75 - 80 win team [[depending on the pieces around them).

W/out JV, the team would probably win 65 - 69 wins.

As far as rebuilding, finishing last is NO guarantee, by ANY means, of getting a possible star-to-be like Strasburg or Harper, whom the Nationals drafted #1 overall and permitted the team to greatly improve over a short period of time.

I would not be happy finishing last and the #1 pick being a HIGH SCHOOL player. Few want to wait 5 years for that great hope to reach the majors.

I kind of follow the MLB draft and there are no superstars waiting to be plucked at #1 overall for a team looking for a savior.

[Lowell]

I don't think that's the case. It's everything to do with Verlander's contract. Even if he was 15-2 right now, teams are not going to risk paying 60 million for a 34 yr. old pitcher and give up decent prospects as well. If they don't get decent prospects in return then it's just a salary dump, which the Tigers said they weren't doing.

A Verlander salary dump might be a good reconsideration. The Tigers are mildly starting pitching rich and the money could shore up some other weaknesses, like the bullpen or the farm system.

It is probably heresy to say this but a salary dump of Miggie might be a good idea too, as much a I love him. Timing of that is bad right now but when, as is likely, he recovers his normal form.

This team needs speed for their park. Sad to say but with Miggie and Victor there are four lumbering legs in the middle of the line up. Worse now is that they aren't even getting on base. If these guys can't maintain a +.900 OPS, they are a liability.

[emu steve]

Good points, Lowell.

The Tigs took a PITCHER's park and tried to build a power hitting team.

Instead, the Tigs need a golden glove CF, strong defenders in LF and RF, 3B and 1B and top pitching.

Not pretty, but it could be a winning strategy and would be consistent with the ball park.

[ABetterDetroit]

I don't see a competitive team on the field, certainly not for the post season. Move high dollar contracts and completely rebuild. Start with a GM qualified to do it. It's time and JV will not be interested in sticking around for that process at this point in his career.

[emu steve]

I don't see a competitive team on the field, certainly not for the post season. Move high dollar contracts and completely rebuild. Start with a GM qualified to do it. It's time and JV will not be interested in sticking around for that process at this point in his career.

I really hope V-Mart retires after this season [[I know he has another year). Players should know when their BAs are headed toward .200 and retire before they retire at the bottom of their career. I believe he is due 18M in 2018.

http://m.tigers.mlb.com/news/article...lion-contract/

[Ray1936]

I really hope V-Mart retires after this season [[I know he has another year). Players should know when their BAs are headed toward .200 and retire before they retire at the bottom of their career. I believe he is due 18M in 2018.

I dunno. For 18 mil he'd be nuts not to play. Of course, scratch about half of that off for taxes and agent fees, but it's still a hunk of change that most of us would die for.

[401don]

I dunno. For 18 mil he'd be nuts not to play. Of course, scratch about half of that off for taxes and agent fees, but it's still a hunk of change that most of us would die for.

Tigers got one good season out of that 4 yr. deal. But to quote Seinfeld, "People don't refuse money. It's what separates us from the animals."

Earlier in the season I was hoping if the Tigers ate half his salary some team with short fences, where a few of his warning track shots at Comerica might be home runs, would take him as their DH next year. But the way the shift is taking away singles, and his legs taking away doubles, I don't see it happening.

[ABetterDetroit]

I dunno. For 18 mil he'd be nuts not to play. Of course, scratch about half of that off for taxes and agent fees, but it's still a hunk of change that most of us would die for.

Hafta agree with Ray on this. Nuts is right. Wait to be waived then stay home and have the checks sent in the mail to him.

[Lowell]

If this were the pre DH days Victor would be the ideal pinch hitter ala Gates Brown, lightning off the bench and a switch hitter that can't be turned around. Get on base in the late innings, then bring in the pinch runner.

Let's hope he has a big last hurrah season, like Big Papi did, and earns his $16mil. Because, no one else is going to touch him. BTW Boston is doing just fine without Big Papi.

[401don]

Let's hope he has a big last hurrah season, like Big Papi did, and earns his $16mil. Because, no one else is going to touch him. BTW Boston is doing just fine without Big Papi.[/QUOTE]

Sort of. Red Sox really miss his bat. They are 27th in the majors in home runs and way down in rbi's and runs scored. With Big Papi they would be running away with the division instead of a 3 game lead.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

V-Mart and Miggy are having disappointing seasons, Cabrera's worst ever. Hope in Miggy's case at least, this is a abberation, and not the beginning of the dreaded decline, but that may be the case. Both can't catch up to the FB anymore, and their power numbers are non-existent. Two bright spots has been J-Ups bounce back year, and a guy I questioned why he was on the team, earlier this season Mikie Mahtook. He has really stepped up, and looks to be the Tigers CF going forward.

[Smirnoff]

How many "days" after the season ends will Ausmus be holding a pink slip......anybody [[$200M payroll/10 games behind/53-63)?

[401don]

V-Mart and Miggy are having disappointing seasons, Cabrera's worst ever. Hope in Miggy's case at least, this is a abberation, and not the beginning of the dreaded decline, but that may be the case. Both can't catch up to the FB anymore, and their power numbers are non-existent. Two bright spots has been J-Ups bounce back year, and a guy I questioned why he was on the team, earlier this season Mikie Mahtook. He has really stepped up, and looks to be the Tigers CF going forward.

I still think the Tigers need a faster CF than Mahtook but he is fine for a yr. or two. Also, he can move to RF as a stopgap. I don't think Christian Stewart will be the future in RF. He's poor defensively, strikes out too much and is only hitting .260. Lots of guys have hit 25 homers in AA. Moya comes to mind.

[emu steve]

V-Mart and Miggy are having disappointing seasons, Cabrera's worst ever. Hope in Miggy's case at least, this is a abberation, and not the beginning of the dreaded decline, but that may be the case. Both can't catch up to the FB anymore, and their power numbers are non-existent. Two bright spots has been J-Ups bounce back year, and a guy I questioned why he was on the team, earlier this season Mikie Mahtook. He has really stepped up, and looks to be the Tigers CF going forward.

I'm guessing we don't know the REAL condition of Miggy's health.

He can't get around on the fastball. His power is way down [[no 430 ft. home runs). And so on.

My guess is that physically he is no where near say 90%.

[Smirnoff]

I'm guessing we don't know the REAL condition of Miggy's health.

He can't get around on the fastball. His power is way down [[no 430 ft. home runs). And so on.

My guess is that physically he is no where near say 90%.

Some are asking is it really health or just collecting a $200k paycheck every game by showing-up......

[Ray1936]

Good game last night; good crowd in the stands and a walk-off home run to win it. Hey....win or lose, what can be pleasanter than taking the kids to the ball game and chowing down a bunch of hot dogs, along with coke for the kids and a good cold beer for Mom and Pop? Viva beisbol!

[Al Publican]

Does Miguel Cabrera have a lingering injury from past seasons, maybe an abdominal muscle tear aka core injury? Hopefully his hitting .250 this year is not indicative of a premature career ending. And I hope he is still on the wagon.

[401don]

Does Miguel Cabrera have a lingering injury from past seasons, maybe an abdominal muscle tear aka core injury? Hopefully his hitting .250 this year is not indicative of a premature career ending. And I hope he is still on the wagon.

I don't know what's wrong with him other than the fact, as he has admitted, his back has bothered him all year but why the Tigers don't shut him down for the rest of the season is beyond me. A career ending injury would be a personal tragedy for Cabrera but a huge blessing to the team. He is still owed $184 million!

[emu steve]

I don't know what's wrong with him other than the fact, as he has admitted, his back has bothered him all year but why the Tigers don't shut him down for the rest of the season is beyond me. A career ending injury would be a personal tragedy for Cabrera but a huge blessing to the team. He is still owed $184 million!

Sports are always like this: Except for player X [[K-Rod, Miggy, etc.) we might have had a good season.

But that is the way team sports are: Some players have very good or excellent years while some, for whatever reasons, are not productive.

It happens to all teams. Maybe Miggy bounces back next year and someone who is having a good season this year goes into the tank.

EDIT: I just looked at the first 4 games of the season: Miggy was 0 for 12. That really suggests to me that he [[back?) was hurting and the season has been a struggle for him.

[Smirnoff]

"Comfort level" continues to sink.....15.5 games behind, streak of losing the last 6 games, 2-8 in the L10, & giving away bobble-heads......next.

[401don]

"Comfort level" continues to sink.....15.5 games behind, streak of losing the last 6 games, 2-8 in the L10, & giving away bobble-heads......next.

Kind of like the eclipse - best just to look away 'til it's over.

[Ray1936]

Kind of like the eclipse - best just to look away 'til it's over.

And it is over. For the sake of discussion, I think the Tigers' entire coaching staff needs a change-over; especially Asmus. Somehow I think his motivational abilities are marginal, but that's just an uneducated guess.

[softailrider]

I know this thread is about the Tigers, but how many times through the years [[every year?) has it been suggested that the Lions fire everybody and start over. I mean everybody, including the people who cook the hotdogs. Just a clean sheet of paper.
I think the Tigers have reached that point. With this line up, with this payroll this is a complete disgrace. They have laid down and rolled over for Ausmus and for Mr. Christopher Illitch. If Mr. I were still alive and / or Jim Leyland were still managing, I don't think it would have happened like this. I think they have no regard for Ausmus or Mr. I's son.

[401don]

I know this thread is about the Tigers, but how many times through the years [[every year?) has it been suggested that the Lions fire everybody and start over. I mean everybody, including the people who cook the hotdogs. Just a clean sheet of paper.
I think the Tigers have reached that point. With this line up, with this payroll this is a complete disgrace. They have laid down and rolled over for Ausmus and for Mr. Christopher Illitch. If Mr. I were still alive and / or Jim Leyland were still managing, I don't think it would have happened like this. I think they have no regard for Ausmus or Mr. I's son.

However Cabrera, Guillen, Pudge, Ordonez, Sheffield, Granderson, Renteria, Polanco, Verlander, Rogers, etc. all chose to roll over in 2008 for Leyland? For the last time, baseball doesn't work that way.