2017 Detroit Tigers

[emu steve]

"Cabrera quietly admitted he hurts in all sorts of places — “My back, my hip flexor, my groin” — but added, “I don’t want to say, I don’t hit, so I got something. I don’t want an excuse.” Detnews.

Not surprised. When Miggy isn't hitting for power, can't turn on pitches, etc. etc. one would guess that he isn't anywhere close to 100%. I don't think anyone thinks Miggy has grown old suddenly.

I wish we had more depth and Miggy could sit for a week or at least DH for a week and try to get better.

One point is that both Miggy and V-Mart have hit the age where injuries seem more and more common...

This team needs the all-star break so that some players can rest.

[emu steve]

V-Mart hospitalized with irregular heart beat.

https://twitter.com/cmccosky/status/875807796297699334

[emu steve]

Games are getting more interesting. Couple walk-off wins and a blow out last night.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Miggy clearly isn't himself. His power has diminished.

[emu steve]

Miggy clearly isn't himself. His power has diminished.

That is true. Is it age or injuries?

I bet he isn't playing at more than say 85%.

His power evaporated a few years ago when he had a sports hernia.

[Smirnoff]

A $209 million payroll & currently in last place.....it doesn't cost that much to lose - drop over $100 million & then win like the rest!

[401don]

A $209 million payroll & currently in last place.....it doesn't cost that much to lose - drop over $100 million & then win like the rest!

As much as I would like to see a total rebuild it doesn't look like it will be possible. Firstly, there are a number of teams looking to move veteran players this year. Secondly, teams are reluctant to trade top prospects as they have in the past. Thirdly, the Tigers players we would like to move - Cabrera, Verlander, Upton, Zimmerman, VMart - all have high salaries, aren't playing well or both. There is no point eating these guys salaries just to get rid of them unless you get top prospects in return. It's not like you're going to use the money to sign another free agent when you're rebuilding and it's not going to drop the price of a $7 coke. It looks like the Tigers may be able to move Kinsler, JD, Avila and Wilson but the return probably won't be high. They are not going to get prospects to build a new nucleus around. We may be stuck in purgatory for a few years [[see Wings, Pistons).

[Ray1936]

We may be stuck in purgatory for a few years [[see Wings, Pistons).

Ah! You're suggesting there's hope for the Lions?

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Ah! You're suggesting there's hope for the Lions?

They seem to have the best shot. The rest are in perpetual rebuild mode.

[Smirnoff]

V-Mart currently has the lowest WAR stat [[-0.4) on the entire team [[very bottom) & making $18-million, with a no trade contract......wtf?

[401don]

V-Mart currently has the lowest WAR stat [[-0.4) on the entire team [[very bottom) & making $18-million, with a no trade contract......wtf?

VMart and Upton were Mike Ilitch signings. Having VMart is made worse by the fact he keeps Cabrera from moving to DH 2-3 times per week. I would love to see them send Cabrera home for the rest of the season to get healthy.

[Bong-Man]

Trade Fulmer to the Cubs. Not an easy decision to make, but you must give to get. We aren't going to be worth beans for another five years anyway. The Tigers are severely over-estimating the worth of the veteran players they're making available to other teams. It's not like those players have increased in value from last Winter. This roster needs to be dismantled, not tweaked.

[Bong-Man]

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/spo...nse/103608686/

Thanks for your quick response Bob !

I think Wojo is looking for a quick tweak, and I don't see it. Check out our 4 starting infielders. Cassie @ 3rd is not the future....he's a liability in the field. As much as I enjoy Kinsler's hustle, he's almost ready for baseball social security. Julio at SS is fine. Miggy at first is a long-term problem. His legs can no longer handle the artificial turf, and the combination of he and V-Mart is not only clogging the bases, but literally stealing a roster spot. You also don't have a centerfielder or a bullpen. Again, Fulmer is young with a cheap contract. Not saying it's necessary to trade him, but if someone makes a great offer, I think the Tigers should listen.

[softailrider]

Hitch your wagon to the Detroit Lions star if you want, but if this season is anything like the last 59 years, it's an idea that is fraught with disappointment.

[Lowell]

Justin Wilson, Tiger's emerging closer is gone, so is Alex Avila, Tiger stable catcher, both to the Cubs. In turn we get a top prospect third basemen Jeimer Candelario who is said to hit with power and is said to be MLB ready, but is also said to lack speed and quickness. An 18 year old SS was thrown in.

But wait. Don't we already have a third baseman who hits with power and lacks speed and quickness?

So who's the closer now that Justin Wilson is gone?

[emu steve]

Justin Wilson, Tiger's emerging closer is gone, so is Alex Avila, Tiger stable catcher, both to the Cubs. In turn we get a top prospect third basemen Jeimer Candelario who is said to hit with power and is said to be MLB ready, but is also said to lack speed and quickness. An 18 year old SS was thrown in.

But wait. Don't we already have a third baseman who hits with power and lacks speed and quickness?

So who's the closer now that Justin Wilson is gone?

Lowell, I share your concerns.

I think we won't have a very reliable closer this year as the season is mostly over, figuratively speaking, and we await 2018.

We have some good reliever prospects on the farm [[e.g., Jimenez, Labourt, etc.). Relief pitching is now considered the strength of the farm with the kids having done well in 2017. Heard the discussion on the telecast yesterday, and the team isn't giving up on Rondon, too much potential.

I think Candelario gets a shot in spring training. Nick C. also plays, can play 1B, PH, etc. V-Mart is the logjam now. Once he exits, the Tigs will go with Nick C and Miggy at 1B/DH, perhaps alternating of sorts.

Just guessing, but I think Candelario is still a better fielding prospect than Nick C.

Curious what Chris Ilitch will do this winter in terms of FAs? Will he spend 10M for an OF bat???

I'm hoping he is trying to shave say 30M off the top of the payroll and not make it like K.C. Tampa Bay, etc. etc.

Detroit isn't a big city market like N.Y., L.A. Chicago, etc but it isn't a small market either. Tigers can draw 2.5 - 3M depending how exciting the team is...

[emu steve]

Tigers called up Joe Jimenez, their big hope for the bull pen.

We'll see if he can handle it. Had a very fine 2017 in the minors and earned the promotion to the big leagues.

[401don]

A couple of good outings by Zimmerman and Boyd has me feeling a little
more optimistic. If the Tigers don't move Verlander in the off-season and one of their kids is able to move into the rotation next year or the following, then the rotation has the potential to be solid.
With the Tigers unable to trade their over priced veterans and teams unwilling to part with prospects, a total rebuild along the lines of the Astros or White Sox is unlikely. I don't think management or the fans have the stomach for 4-5 losing seasons anyway. The trade for Candelario alone can make a huge difference in the appearance of the team. The key is for the Tigers to move Castellanos to 1st, allowing him to split time with Miggy at DH, and ship out VMart, eating most of his salary for next year. Not offering Iglesias a contract will save another 5 million. They still need to find an above average centerfielder and rightfielder. Mahtook is an excellent 4th outfielder but a below avg. everyday player. At least things are finally moving in the right direction.

[Smirnoff]

Fangraphs.com, for example, shows a steep drop in Castellanos’ percentage of ground balls a third baseman “likely” can be expected to handle: from 73.1 percent in 2016, to 52.9 in 2017.

[emu steve]

A couple of good outings by Zimmerman and Boyd has me feeling a little
more optimistic. If the Tigers don't move Verlander in the off-season and one of their kids is able to move into the rotation next year or the following, then the rotation has the potential to be solid.
With the Tigers unable to trade their over priced veterans and teams unwilling to part with prospects, a total rebuild along the lines of the Astros or White Sox is unlikely. I don't think management or the fans have the stomach for 4-5 losing seasons anyway. The trade for Candelario alone can make a huge difference in the appearance of the team. The key is for the Tigers to move Castellanos to 1st, allowing him to split time with Miggy at DH, and ship out VMart, eating most of his salary for next year. Not offering Iglesias a contract will save another 5 million. They still need to find an above average centerfielder and rightfielder. Mahtook is an excellent 4th outfielder but a below avg. everyday player. At least things are finally moving in the right direction.

Maybe I'm being too much of a 'Sunshine Steve' but if we had half decent relief pitching early on [[and not a total meltdown) we could be a .500 team.

Now, some would say better to take the bitter medicine now and do a partial rebuild [[agree that Detroiters don't have the stomach for a 4-year rebuild. Mr. I has spoiled us) or heaven forbid a total rebuild then truck along winning 77 - 87 games a year and missing the playoffs or looking at an out probably in the wild card game.

[Smirnoff]

Tiger's rank #29 in relation to spending [[$) toward relief pitching, but rank #1 when it comes to Batters, Starting Pitching, & Infielders.....how many decades has the bullpen been a disgrace.....

[401don]

Tiger's rank #29 in relation to spending [[$) toward relief pitching, but rank #1 when it comes to Batters, Starting Pitching, & Infielders.....how many decades has the bullpen been a disgrace.....

yeah but they rank #1 for spending on relievers no longer on the roster - Lowe 6.5 million, KRod 7.5.

[emu steve]

yeah but they rank #1 for spending on relievers no longer on the roster - Lowe 6.5 million, KRod 7.5.

This is precisely the problem:

One expected [[or at least paid for) much more from the bull pen.

As ugly as the season has been, the Tigers are still not that far from being a .500+ team.

If we had an 'average' bull pen [[not too much to ask as we do spend money like it is water), we'd not have been sellers.

Maybe, next season we'll have kids in the 'pen and they'll surprise us...

Such is sports: Expect a lot, get little; expect little, get a lot...

[Smirnoff]

Nutin' new hear: "there appears to be something of a gap between how the Tigers see Verlander and how the rest of the league sees him. Detroit seemingly is shopping him as if he’s still the ace he pitched like last season, not the average-ish starter he’s pitched like this season".

[emu steve]

Nutin' new hear: "there appears to be something of a gap between how the Tigers see Verlander and how the rest of the league sees him. Detroit seemingly is shopping him as if he’s still the ace he pitched like last season, not the average-ish starter he’s pitched like this season".

Yep, Chris I. and Avila have BIG decisions to make in the off season...

Do they opt to do a slow rebuild holding on to both, JV and Fulmer, and J-Up [[if he wants to remain a Tiger). With those two arms the Tigs have a chance to rebuild without losing 90 or more games. Add one more bat [[would love to see J.D. come back home). The Tigs could rebuild using their improved farm [[which is ready to bear fruit in 2018 and 9) and add reasonable free agents.

My thinking: JV can pitch well for say 3 more years. By then Fulmer should be the ace of the staff. Maybe Norris or Boyd become a solid 2 or 3 type pitcher. Maybe someone from the farm, like Burroughs or even Manning [[2020/1) slots into the middle of the rotation [[say a #3 or 4).

The farm has infield help coming in 2018, 9, and 20.

IF the farm is as bad as it was a year or two ago, then a total rebuild would have been necessary.