Detroit readies for new residents "city’s decades of population decline is reversing”

[Lowell]

Can it be?

Six new housing developments in various stages of construction opened for view Aug. 5 and 6.

DETROIT — Next year, and for the first time in more than 60 years, city officials are expecting Detroit’s residential population to increase.

“Demand for living in Detroit is growing every day,” said Detroit Mayor Michael Duggan in a prepared statement. “Census numbers show the city’s decades of population decline is reversing.”

Capitol Park Lofts will offer high-end apartments that range from $853 to $3,180 a month in the newly renovated Capitol Park neighborhood downtown. The building will feature a rooftop deck with a gas grill.

In the same area, The Griswold’s 9-foot floor-to-ceiling windows offer views of the city’s skyline and entertainment district. Monthly apartment rates begin at $1,500 and top out at $3,500 a month.

The Fort Shelby Residences are above the historic Fort Shelby Hotel, which first opened in 1917. Designed by famed architect Albert Kahn, the 23-story tower holds 56 condos in the city’s central business district that range in price from $280,000 to $1 million.

The luxury apartments of DuCharme Place in Lafayette Park feature direct access to the biking and walking trail known as the Dequindre Cut, and a swimming pool and deck in a roomy landscaped garden terrace. Prices range from $1,250 to $1,850 a month.

Brush Park soon will be home to two new developments, The Scott and City Modern. The Scott is located on Woodward Avenue and Erskine Street, and monthly apartment prices start at $949. City Modern will blend historic homes with modern flats and more. Both developments feature access to the new QLINE streetcar, slated to open in 2017.

Lynette Boyle, of Grosse Pointe Woods, and Ellen Mahoney, of Bloomfield Hills, were among the hundreds attending the VIP Downtown Living Tour.

“There is a shortage of housing in Detroit,” said Mahoney, a real estate broker.

“We love Detroit,” Boyle said. “There is so much happening and so much to do.”

http://www.candgnews.com/news/detroi...esidents-94997

Can we cue the John Lee Hooker hit yet?

Boom, boom, boom, boom.

I'm gonna shoot you right down,

Knock you off of your feet,

And take you home with me.

Put you in my house.

Boom, boom, boom, boom.

[Chicago48]

Can it be?

Six new housing developments in various stages of construction opened for view Aug. 5 and 6.





http://www.candgnews.com/news/detroi...esidents-94997

Can we cue the John Lee Hooker hit yet?

Boom, boom, boom, boom.

I'm gonna shoot you right down,

Knock you off of your feet,

And take you home with me.

Put you in my house.

Boom, boom, boom, boom.

For sure, Detroit needs NEW housing, but it has plenty of housing in foreclosure and needing rehab. Some of the outer neighborhoods could use a little help with NEW housing. Not just midtown.

[casscorridor]

http://www.citymoderndetroit.com/

I love the architecture and variety in the buildings! Not something you'd expect to see in Detroit. Looks more like London.

[Ray1936]

http://www.citymoderndetroit.com/

I love the architecture and variety in the buildings! Not something you'd expect to see in Detroit. Looks more like London.

Yeah. After the blitz.

[313WX]

For sure, Detroit needs NEW housing, but it has plenty of housing in foreclosure and needing rehab. Some of the outer neighborhoods could use a little help with NEW housing. Not just midtown.

"Downtown" Detroit may have been a little closer to accurate in the OPs news article and title.

[emu steve]

For sure, Detroit needs NEW housing, but it has plenty of housing in foreclosure and needing rehab. Some of the outer neighborhoods could use a little help with NEW housing. Not just midtown.

Agree. New single family housing construction across the U.S. has been making a nice comeback but not within Detroit.

Maybe in the future?

I remember times when some cities like Detroit, D.C. [[yep) hardly had any grocery stores in the city and folks had to go to the 'burbs for the basics of life. That's changing.

Next should be the revitalization of neighborhoods with stores, drug stores, and even new housing.

I just don't know which neighborhood would see the construction of new single-family homes.

[Bham1982]

Detroit had the largest population loss of any city in the U.S. per the latest Census estimates.

So the answer is no; there is no evidence of a population trend reversal. And [[putting aside the fact that Detroit has very little housing construction per Census) relative housing construction has almost nothing to do with relative population trends.

[dtowncitylover]

Detroit had the largest population loss of any city in the U.S. per the latest Census estimates.

So the answer is no; there is no evidence of a population trend reversal. And [[putting aside the fact that Detroit has very little housing construction per Census) relative housing construction has almost nothing to do with relative population trends.

I'm not sure what past Census estimates have to do with what's actually going on. In fact they're just estimates. SEMCOG in the 70s estimated that Metro Detroit would be growing well into the 90s but they were wrong. In fact, it should be more of an enabler to actually grow the city than to sit around and drown in self-pity.

Now population trends are indeed different because they can be so fickle. But here we have the mayor, who knows more than you or me, saying the trend is starting to curb. His he saying 1.4 million people are moving in next month? No. He's saying the trend is slowing and reversing. It's just turning a new leaf not getting the entire tree.

The two pics in the article show baby boomer lookers, which raises the question, for me at least, whether they are looking to sell their McMansions or purchase pied-a-terres? Hopefully the former...

[Scottathew]

Agree. New single family housing construction across the U.S. has been making a nice comeback but not within Detroit.

Maybe in the future?

If there is significant growth, it will be in and around existing stable neighborhoods. Although, I do think there are future opportunities where if a developer can get a large amount of land that we could see a big single-family home development. The lots would probably be bigger than the original lots, but the existing street grid could still be used.

[emu steve]

If there is significant growth, it will be in and around existing stable neighborhoods. Although, I do think there are future opportunities where if a developer can get a large amount of land that we could see a big single-family home development. The lots would probably be bigger than the original lots, but the existing street grid could still be used.

One thing about single-family homes.

Lets assume the cost to build a house is $200K [[not counting land).

Would you build that house in Detroit on land you bought for 20K or would you go to a 'burb and buy a different lot for $40K?

The point is that if the price point between building a new SF home say in Detroit and say in Dearborn is small [[240 vs 220K), it most likely will get built in Dearborn, not Detroit.

And I agree at some point don't know years, decades, etc. but in fact some developer might try to buy 100 acres and build a neighborhood...

Where might this happen in Detroit? I have NO idea.

I can tell you it happens in D.C. and the D.C. area so maybe, some day it could happen in Detroit, but not anytime soon.

There is a company, I think EYA, which literally BUILDS NEIGHBORHOODS. I'll check but they have constructed a townhome community near Nationals Park.

EDIT: OVER 300 TOWNHOMES as a single D.C. neighborhood!! [[Capitol Quarter) and it isn't in N.W. D.C., either.

http://www.eya.com/Established_Neighborhoods

[casscorridor]

It's extremely unlikely that there is population growth within the City of Detroit. There is also no need more single family homes. At least not detached single family homes. Rather, increased density in few key areas like we are seeing in the initial article of this thread. Efficiencies gained through a smaller [[but denser) population will mean improved services at a lower price to taxpayers.

[downtownguy]

Would you build that house in Detroit on land you bought for 20K or would you go to a 'burb and buy a different lot for $40K?

20K? As in $20,000. hahahahaha!!! I don't have a bridge to sell you, but give me a minute and I'll find you some land.

[Wesley Mouch]

Agree. New single family housing construction across the U.S. has been making a nice comeback but not within Detroit.

Maybe in the future?

I remember times when some cities like Detroit, D.C. [[yep) hardly had any grocery stores in the city and folks had to go to the 'burbs for the basics of life. That's changing.

Next should be the revitalization of neighborhoods with stores, drug stores, and even new housing.

I just don't know which neighborhood would see the construction of new single-family homes.

Which neighborhood? The answer will be the neighborhood with:

1) The best public safety
2) Either:
a) Best existing stock to renovate, or,
b) Easier and cheapest land to develop or redevelop.

Bureaucratic and populist decisions can have short-term impact, but real impact is from the new, novel idea which DY has only recently even notice, the market.

[mwilbert]

Which neighborhood? The answer will be the neighborhood with:

1) The best public safety
2) Either:
a) Best existing stock to renovate, or,
b) Easier and cheapest land to develop or redevelop.

Bureaucratic and populist decisions can have short-term impact, but real impact is from the new, novel idea which DY has only recently even notice, the market.

I think this is not really correct. The question was about new single family construction, so having existing stock to renovate is probably a negative--I expect that neighborhoods with existing, usable, but unoccupied buildings will see them renovated before you see new construction in those same neighborhoods.

Of course, you could see [[very limited) infill anyplace, but you are most likely to see significant amounts of housing built where there is a lot of empty space so that a developer has some economies of scale [[more or less your category b), which are not likely to be the places with the best safety or the best existing housing stock.

And the way that will happen is through some kind of non-market incentives--maybe tax-increment financing for infrastructure improvements, maybe tax abatements, etc. It isn't likely to happen through market forces, because there are too many possible locations and developers are most likely to want to go into areas that have been prioritized by the city.

But I think the whole idea is kind of marginal. Detroit has no shortage of single family housing, and the metro area doesn't either. On the other hand, both have a shortage of dense housing, and I expect that is what we are going to see built. Some of it might be town houses and row houses such as seem to be happening in Brush Park, but I don't see much single-family detached housing being built anytime in the the near future. I do think you will see a lot of existing housing renovated, and obviously that will happen first in the areas where housing prices will support it. Which, as you say, are probably the areas with the nicest housing stock and the best safety.

[iheartthed]

But I think the whole idea is kind of marginal. Detroit has no shortage of single family housing, and the metro area doesn't either. On the other hand, both have a shortage of dense housing, and I expect that is what we are going to see built. Some of it might be town houses and row houses such as seem to be happening in Brush Park, but I don't see much single-family detached housing being built anytime in the the near future. I do think you will see a lot of existing housing renovated, and obviously that will happen first in the areas where housing prices will support it. Which, as you say, are probably the areas with the nicest housing stock and the best safety.

And isn't this being realized in the market already? Aren't the new condos in downtown and midtown selling for the most expensive price per square foot in the Detroit area now?

[Hermod]

A lot of the "we're growing" folks ten years ago had the wind taken out of their sails by the 2010 census figures.

[ABetterDetroit]

Concentrate on jobs. Per capita income is far more important. If opportunities increase enough the population problem will take care of itself.

Michigan and Detroit has let far to many other regions eat off the plate for way to long. It's a competitive environment, if we are not competing we will lose to those who are playing to win the jobs for their state and municipalities.

[bust]

...And I agree at some point don't know years, decades, etc. but in fact some developer might try to buy 100 acres and build a neighborhood...

Where might this happen in Detroit? I have NO idea.

I can tell you it happens in D.C. and the D.C. area so maybe, some day it could happen in Detroit, but not anytime soon...

In 2005 a private company led by former Housing and Urban Development Henry Cisneros had a plan to build 3000 units in Jefferson-Chalmers. They spent millions acquiring properties, then backed out. It could have been great. Restoring the Vanity Ballroom wouldn't seem so far-fetched had it happened. Instead it was another major contributor to the abandonment of the neighborhood. Too bad Detroit has suffered from so many so called "developers" who have bought up properties only to do nothing with them.

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...of_propos.html

If it were to happen in Detroit, I suggest this may still be a good location.

Meanwhile, if you look around, some of the outlying neighborhoods have in fact seen some tracts relatively recently developed into neighborhoods of new single family homes. Not a lot, and some are small. I don't know who was responsible or how they came together [[I'd be curious to learn), but here are a just few examples [[I'm sure there are others). I think these were probably built in the 90's [[I guess not that recent):

https://goo.gl/maps/Fq3KWB57Wnx
https://goo.gl/maps/FknRDw6j8hk
https://goo.gl/maps/ZqV4Qf7RLTy

[dtowncitylover]

Meanwhile, if you look around, some of the outlying neighborhoods have in fact seen some tracts relatively recently developed into neighborhoods of new single family homes. Not a lot, and some are small. I don't know who was responsible or how they came together [[I'd be curious to learn), but here are a just few examples [[I'm sure there are others). I think these were probably built in the 90's [[I guess not that recent):

https://goo.gl/maps/Fq3KWB57Wnx
https://goo.gl/maps/FknRDw6j8hk
https://goo.gl/maps/ZqV4Qf7RLTy

Those aren't good examples of what Detroit needs in terms of single family houses. If people want to live in Bloomfield, Rochester Hills, or Canton they are more than welcome but in the city housing should be a mix of multi-family and dense single family houses. Three neighborhoods we need to look to for influence and ideas are Toronto's Bedford Park, Brooklyn's Bay Ridge, and Chicago's West Ridge/West Rogers Park. Any new residential catering to family living needs to be sustainable and suburban like developments from the corner 206 Mile and LBP Freeway are not the way to go.

[Don K]

Those aren't good examples of what Detroit needs in terms of single family houses. If people want to live in Bloomfield, Rochester Hills, or Canton they are more than welcome but in the city housing should be a mix of multi-family and dense single family houses.

Yep, seems to me most people who want city living want city living and not pseudo-suburbia. They want to be able to walk to shopping, restaurants, and entertainment, and not be dependent on their cars for everything in life [[which doesn't mean they want to get rid of their cars entirely - they just want the option to leave them at home sometimes). Some mix of mid-rise apartments or condos and, e.g., West Philly-style row houses seems about right to me.

[professorscott]

What a great thread! Just a couple of points, my opinion based on what I've seen in Detroit, its suburbs, and other places.

First, objectively, the rate of decline in population has slowed quite a bit, but hasn't yet stopped. Raw numbers don't mean much because you don't get an apples-to-apples comparison.

Second, now this is entirely conjectural, the population growth is going to come from where it did originally, when Detroit was young: from downtown out along the river and along Woodward. Several factors are making the downtown-midtown corridor more attractive to developers and new residents than it has been in a long time. If the growth in the core develops enough to offset losses in the neglected fringe areas of the city, the decline in population could stop, and reverse.

Long term, improvements in transportation and education, and finding a way to bring sufficient retail back into the city to support a population of, let's say eventually 1.1 or 1.2 million, is what it's going to take to bring people back. So I would say there's positive momentum but a lot of work yet to be done.

[bust]

Those aren't good examples of what Detroit needs in terms of single family houses. If people want to live in Bloomfield, Rochester Hills, or Canton they are more than welcome but in the city housing should be a mix of multi-family and dense single family houses. Three neighborhoods we need to look to for influence and ideas are Toronto's Bedford Park, Brooklyn's Bay Ridge, and Chicago's West Ridge/West Rogers Park. Any new residential catering to family living needs to be sustainable and suburban like developments from the corner 206 Mile and LBP Freeway are not the way to go.

Yep, seems to me most people who want city living want city living and not pseudo-suburbia. They want to be able to walk to shopping, restaurants, and entertainment, and not be dependent on their cars for everything in life [[which doesn't mean they want to get rid of their cars entirely - they just want the option to leave them at home sometimes). Some mix of mid-rise apartments or condos and, e.g., West Philly-style row houses seems about right to me.

I didn't say I liked them. I was merely pointing out that these developments exist.

The "City Modern" development planned for Brush Park is a much better example of something I like: http://www.citymoderndetroit.com/

But neighborhoods like that aren't for everyone. A whole lot of people want a single family home. There's nothing wrong with people unencumbered by family. Nothing wrong with families either. And nothing wrong with a family who does not have the time, money, patience, or inclination to renovate one of Detroit's neglected historical homes in order for their kids to each have their own bedroom and a back yard for a kiddie pool. I'm guessing some of those who have chosen those newish single-family homes in Detroit may have reasons they chose not to move to Bloomfield, Rochester Hills, or Canton to find something appropriate for their needs. I can imagine a few of them. The price for a comparable home is one.

You guys are absolutely right: Detroit does not need new suburban style single family neighborhoods anywhere close to downtown. But I do think Detroit needs new single family homes, especially in the far corners of the city. There's certainly a lot of room for them there. It's exactly the right place for them. Detroit's pitiful transit system means people living far from downtown will all but certainly be driving a car if they can afford one, anyway.

Coincidentally, I lived in West Philly for several years, and I'm a couple neighborhoods away from Bay Ridge today. The blocks of 100 - 150 year old buildings in those neighborhoods offer a lot of the things I like about living in a city, including good transit. But I wouldn't recommend something like that for Detroit's far east side. Let's start closer to downtown. Orleans Landing seems to be an attempt at a contemporary [[if historicist) take on a neighborhood like those. City Modern, much better. And BTW parts of Bay Ridge have exactly the kinds of single family homes you don't want for Detroit.

I think the development Cisneros' had in mind for Jefferson-Chalmers was a good plan for the neighborhood. As it turned out, maybe too good. I'd like to see someone else try.

[TTime]

I would bet on slightly lower or flat population in Detroit [[if we see the real numbers) but for Duggan's sake he better be right because by his own words his first term will be a failure if he doesn't grow the population.

[Jason]

iirc it was a few years ago that a small amount of growth was projected so I definitely believe that there will be growth, especially if there's new information [[is there?) or if Duggan is doubling down on it.

[Bigdd]

Until you have safe neighborhoods and good schools,... you WILL NOT see any significant new single family home construction or even renovation.


Yes you will have younger people renting apartments and lofts,.. and even some wealthy rehabbing mansions [[that can afford to send their children to private schools).

Nearly all of the people moving into Detroit are temporary at this point. When they start thinking about having children,.. they will buy a home elsewhere.