BREXIT | UK Votes To Leave European Union | Break It Down For Me - What Does It Mean?

[Zacha341]

^^^ Attachment link not working?

[Lowell]

it is now....

[G-DDT]

I warned about the extreme right movements brewing in Europe http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b053d433066561and bloodshed http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b09c926cfe81dawas not far behind [[seeing those guys from Britain First, a manipulative organization that makes just as frequent errors as Fox News or the Trump camp, posing with crosses and flags reminds me of that misquote attributed to Sinclair Lewis about "fascism coming to town, but he was quoted "I just wish people wouldn't quote Lincoln or the Bible, or hang out the flag or the cross, to cover up something that belongs more to the bank-book and the three golden balls.").

From the Religious Right perspective, the flipped out dispensational forecast presumes [[from flawed interpretations about horns and, oddly enough, toes on a statue, in the book of Daniel which may've lent to prophecies long since fulfilled) that Europe will represent ten nations in prophecy who will side with evil forces and a New World Order. As each country is added to the Euro scheme, these guys start whooping and jumping on the chairs with exaltation that their prediction is right. If Brexit resumes unhindered, they will be sorely disappointed.

[oladub]

"you’re not laughing now, are you?"

"As a policy to impose poverty on Greece and the Mediterranean you’ve done very well.
You’re in denial over Mrs. Merkel’s call for as many people as possible to cross the Mediterranean – which has led to massive divisions between within countries and between countries."

"Because what the little people did, what the ordinary people did – what the people who’d been oppressed over the last few years who’d seen their living standards go down did – was they rejected the multinationals, they rejected the merchant banks, they rejected big politics and they said actually, we want our country back, we want our fishing waters back, we want our borders back. "

entire speech and video http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7107036.html

[Zacha341]

Those pesky bb's made all this happen!

Brexit is a middle finger from the baby boomers to young people like me

[coracle]

Those pesky bb's made all this happen!

Brexit is a middle finger from the baby boomers to young people like me

I don't think so. The "old" people remember how Great Britain was BEFORE Europe; BEFORE the immigrants from Asia, N. Africa and E. Europe laid waste to many of their towns, and they want young people like you to experience it. Their middle finger is aimed at "Europe" and it's unelected socialists that want to redistribute their wealth to people that didn't EARN it.

[Zacha341]

Hah! Ugh, I get that perspective ; ) I are a baby boomer.

Late end of the bb range, but a boomer none the less!

What's wrong with Brussell's calling the shots and dictating terms?

[Jimaz]

Yesterday I read that Brexit is one of the reasons gasoline is so cheap — on this Fourth of July weekend no less.

[coracle]

What's wrong with Brussell's calling the shots and dictating terms?

It would be like an UNELECTED SOCIALIST UN being allowed to dictate to America in detail how every American should conduct their daily lives and what they should give to who, and who they should let into their country, and how many etc. etc., [[and how to conduct wars to lose them). UN comprises of about 200 countries [[compared to EU's 28) of which something like 190 have axes to grind against America and want what it's got but want to see it fail. [[Well see it fail in everything but giving them "their" stuff!).
The only difference would be that UN wouldn't impose the same rules on the other 200.

[Richard]

I think she was being sarcastic.

That whole thing with being a member of the UN kinda circumvents the use of US troops on Amercian soil as they would be UN troops.

[noise]

"And foreign immigration from North Africa or Middle East is not to blame for BREXIT leave."

IT'S THE ONLY REASON DANNY; plus from Pakistan, India, W.Indies, Eastern Europe and and and... and soon to be another 80 million Muslims with free access when Turkey is voted into EU, even though it's not European. All the cultures have piled in because of their own complete failure at building their own desirable places to live. They want somebody else's

My wife's family in the north and middle of England have been ousted from their homes by invaders from N. Africa, and they're having to pay taxes to support them, while the unelected assholes in Brussels hold meetings, on unlimited expense accounts, also paid for by the people they're screwing, planning how they can send more to meet the EU quotas.

BREXIT is the result of the abject failure of diversity and multiculturalism. IT DON'T WORK. The people that want it should get together and do it in their own countries in Africa, S. America, Central America et al. where it won't destroy established societies except their own.

What exactly have you built?

All things being equal, what if you were born elsewhere?

[Ruth Abou Rached]

As a Brit living in a very deprived area of England, I don't think so far Brexit is good news at all - at least not socially and community-wise. There have been racist comments and incident not heard about for decades in the UK. It's like going back in time to the 1980s when the BNP and other racist parties felt they could flex their muscles and think no one would dare challenge them. The difference is that more people will dare to challenge them - not sure that makes targeted people feel any safer though.
I'm sure there are economic arguments for and against Bremain and Brexit. At the moment, it's like day to day, nothing has changed. But in the background, someone has pressed the button for freefall, not sure what or where the brake button is.

For Brits who have a European sense of identity, the decision was like a kick in the stomach and teeth. Many of us feel that way because we have all too painful memories of the 1980s Little England rhetoric - at best inward-looking and stultifying, at worst leading to groups feeling stigmatised.

I would be very happy if I am proved wrong - it's like watch this space :-)

[G-DDT]

As a Brit living in a very deprived area of England, I don't think so far Brexit is good news at all - at least not socially and community-wise. There have been racist comments and incident not heard about for decades in the UK. It's like going back in time to the 1980s when the BNP and other racist parties felt they could flex their muscles and think no one would dare challenge them. The difference is that more people will dare to challenge them - not sure that makes targeted people feel any safer though.
I'm sure there are economic arguments for and against Bremain and Brexit. At the moment, it's like day to day, nothing has changed. But in the background, someone has pressed the button for freefall, not sure what or where the brake button is.

For Brits who have a European sense of identity, the decision was like a kick in the stomach and teeth. Many of us feel that way because we have all too painful memories of the 1980s Little England rhetoric - at best inward-looking and stultifying, at worst leading to groups feeling stigmatised.

I would be very happy if I am proved wrong - it's like watch this space :-)

Thank you for the much needed news and perspective from across the pond. It only confirms my fears of what I've been gathering about racial tensions bubbling up with unprecedented synchronicity all throughout the Western Hemisphere. The world is taking a rather ugly isolationist tone as of late.

I think some of us over here share some of the similar looming fears.

[coracle]

Ruth. Is a Brit living in England, English? Who are the "targeted people"; are they Brits or the English?

[Richard]

As a Brit living in a very deprived area of England, I don't think so far Brexit is good news at all - at least not socially and community-wise. There have been racist comments and incident not heard about for decades in the UK. It's like going back in time to the 1980s when the BNP and other racist parties felt they could flex their muscles and think no one would dare challenge them. The difference is that more people will dare to challenge them - not sure that makes targeted people feel any safer though.
I'm sure there are economic arguments for and against Bremain and Brexit. At the moment, it's like day to day, nothing has changed. But in the background, someone has pressed the button for freefall, not sure what or where the brake button is.

For Brits who have a European sense of identity, the decision was like a kick in the stomach and teeth. Many of us feel that way because we have all too painful memories of the 1980s Little England rhetoric - at best inward-looking and stultifying, at worst leading to groups feeling stigmatised.

I would be very happy if I am proved wrong - it's like watch this space :-)

With the Brits being like the US and providing a safety net of services when in need what would your feelings be when it becomes a target of immigration for that reason only.

With open borders what is more appealing,cross over three countries to get to the one that provides those benefits or stay in one that offers nothing.

Who pays for that and does the racist aspect appear out of anger for having to cover those costs?

Could not the 150 billion deposit as a requirement to be in the union have been put to better use within your own country to raise your standard of living instead of the guise of everybody in the world should divide up income equally ?

[Ruth Abou Rached]

It's been a mixture of different people, English, British and resident in different parts of the UK ranging from micro-aggressions to full-blown hate crime attacks. I haven't personally witnessed any events but the UK police have reported a sharp increase in reports of hate crime post-referendum

This is not a comprehensive list, but here are a few examples of what has been reported: In one town, there were notes in English and Polish pushed through doors the day after the referendum telling people to go home; reports of bullying in the playground, children being told they would be deported by next school semester; a Welsh man was attacked last week in his own town because he was wearing a Russian Cossack hat presented to him by a Russian team at a local wrestling tournament; an English TV presenter with Asian ancestry was abused in the street the day after the referendum; a mosque in the North-East of England was picketed by a right-wing group; people in balaclavas sharing photos of burning EU flag online [[which didn't actually burn as the flag was made of fire-proof material as specified by EU regulations); people feeling uncomfortable speaking other languages on public transport...
There have been also incidences of solidarity also - so it's not all bad news. Some children on one part of the UK went out on the street and greeted everyone they met as a welcome gesture to all.
A number of people are wearing safety pins on their jacket as a symbol of not being bystanders if they are witnesses to any hate crime incident.

There has been one saying circulating on some UK websites which sums up some fears:
"It's not that 52% of those voting to leave the EU were racists; the problem is that the racists think that 52% of the population now agree with them".

The campaigns on both sides leading up to the vote were full of spin and scare-mongering. So the result was going to be divisive either way.....let's hope it all settles down at some point. What settling down will look or feel like is anyone's guess :-)

[Ruth Abou Rached]

People living in deprived areas face a lot of challenges in the UK. There is very little job security, many people being offered "zero hour" contracts so it's hard to predict your weekly or monthly income. If someone in such precarious situations see people from abroad being given housing, this can cause resentment. What is hard to understand is that EU citizens under the present system are not immigrants - they are migrants between "areas" of Europe. So the freedom of movement is a bit like someone from New York deciding to "migrate" or move to Miami for a job opportunity, or to be with family or simply because they prefer the weather....
There was also a lot of confusion concerning EU residents moving to the UK and people fleeing persecution crossing Europe on foot. So some people felt quite fearful of how much control the UK had over who moves in to the UK from outside its geographical borders....But in terms of EU freedom of movement, UK citizens are by far making the most use of this privilege: 4.9million Brits live in other parts of the EU.

You asked about budget: Each country puts in the pot according to GDP so the UK with the 4th largest economy [[pre referendum) would have put in an amount. The UK got an amount back from the EU ear-marked for deprived areas of the UK such as Cornwall and Wales, which the UK government was not able to cover by its own budget. [[The same areas voted to leave, on the basis that the Brexit campaign had promised that this EU funding would be matched by the UK government). What the Leave campaign also promised was more money for the UK health service. An hour after the referendum was announced, these promises were backtracked by a prominent Leave campaigned .... hmmmm......And then prominent leave politicians resigned one after the other...
So people are feeling a little confused, if not angry!

As for the better use of EU funds by our present politicians.....Let's just say I'd be pleasantly surprised if this actually happens! :-)

[coracle]

"....back in time to the 1980s when the BNP and other racist parties felt they could flex their muscles and think no one would dare challenge them."

You are of course correct Ruth, but viewed through racist eyes,THEY were the ones CHALLENGED by the continuous uncontrolled invasion of people with no respite in sight.[[and they were right). Their housing stock has being depleted, their benefits taken, their towns resettled, their living standards reduced, etc. THEY are the TARGETED PEOPLE, who many invaders do not want to assimilate with, but want impose their living standards on them.

Now they have challenged the elites by voting for BREXIT.

[[The elites of course are not racists because they don't have to live day to day with the results of their policies, and the people that have moved in are better off, so the only losers are the racists, and nobody is going to lose sleep over them because they're racists and deserve it).

[Richard]

It's been a mixture of different people, English, British and resident in different parts of the UK ranging from micro-aggressions to full-blown hate crime attacks. I haven't personally witnessed any events but the UK police have reported a sharp increase in reports of hate crime post-referendum

This is not a comprehensive list, but here are a few examples of what has been reported: In one town, there were notes in English and Polish pushed through doors the day after the referendum telling people to go home; reports of bullying in the playground, children being told they would be deported by next school semester; a Welsh man was attacked last week in his own town because he was wearing a Russian Cossack hat presented to him by a Russian team at a local wrestling tournament; an English TV presenter with Asian ancestry was abused in the street the day after the referendum; a mosque in the North-East of England was picketed by a right-wing group; people in balaclavas sharing photos of burning EU flag online [[which didn't actually burn as the flag was made of fire-proof material as specified by EU regulations); people feeling uncomfortable speaking other languages on public transport...
There have been also incidences of solidarity also - so it's not all bad news. Some children on one part of the UK went out on the street and greeted everyone they met as a welcome gesture to all.
A number of people are wearing safety pins on their jacket as a symbol of not being bystanders if they are witnesses to any hate crime incident.

There has been one saying circulating on some UK websites which sums up some fears:
"It's not that 52% of those voting to leave the EU were racists; the problem is that the racists think that 52% of the population now agree with them".

The campaigns on both sides leading up to the vote were full of spin and scare-mongering. So the result was going to be divisive either way.....let's hope it all settles down at some point. What settling down will look or feel like is anyone's guess :-)

That was all happening before the EU,who owns the fish and chips shops,what happened in England is no different then what happened in the US,steel mills close down the area becomes depressed,coal mines shut down and the town is devastated but then again is Liverpool as depressed now as it was in the seventies?

Monetary shifts all across the country.

15 years ago I was sitting in a US restaurant with some friends that are research specialists,one asked the other where they were from,the reply was that they were from Wales,the other one said "well that explains it".

So it has always been there,I have close UK friends that have money that was derived during the seventies,they did extremely well as UK owned businesses in the UK,then the trade barriers were lowered and they no longer employ thousands of UK residents.Same as in the U.S.

It is hard to compare UK expats as a driving force that was fast forwarded because of the EU because they were a driving force long ago,look at any South American country or even the US lots of expats.

Who came up with the 0 hour labor contract? My friends son is working one of those at a pizza hut of all places.

I sometimes get confused on the term racist and how it is used in labeling,maybe I am old school but my view has been if I decided to move to another country that opened its borders to me,I would at the very least learn and respect the language,values,and customs of my host country and in no way would I expect that country to change to suit my needs.I would have been appreciative to that country for allowing me a second chance.

I would also have a little consideration in my vocal support of the country that I left and show a little support to my host,because if I had so much love for the country I left,I would have never even left in the first place.

So does that view make me a racist?

You see UK expats here and the little flags on their bumpers but they do not try and change this country to what it was that they left,and that is why you see UK expats welcome anywhere in the world,because they assimilate and become a part of their host country,and not expect everybody to change to suit their needs.

It might be a little wiser that before labeling someone a racist ,other then a blatant hate group,to take a step back and look at the motivation behind,is it frustration,is it anger because of an event that took place there are many reasons people lash out.

If it is ones opinion that it is considerate,when in public,at least make an attempt to speak the common language.If somebody disagrees with that then they are a racist?

The pound is at 1.26 when 6 weeks ago it was at 1.45 to the US dollar,how much you want to bet that millions in USD is now being transferred to buy pounds,did you know Bank Of England is owned by the Canadians,Jaguar,Range Rover,Rolls Royce all British grand marques for decades are no longer.People are angry on both sides of the pond because both sides sold their country out a long time ago and they lash out it had to come to head sooner or later and might as well get it out of the way now.

[Ruth Abou Rached]

Well it depends where you are living when it happens :-)
I have lived abroad as a UK immigrant in countries outside of the UK, learnt the language etc....but that is not the case for all UK people living outside of the UK, EU and otherwise. This may not immediately be apparent in the US as English is a shared language. I'm not saying either there is a right or wrong way of moving somewhere....or what degree people should mix and learn languages. The main thing is that people don't break the law in the countries they live in [[something Brits and other nationalities have fallen foul of in the past).
Brits have a reputation for NOT learning other languages even when they move abroad on the basis that other people speak English - which is luck for them as a result of history, not due to an inherent worthiness of English as a language over other languages.
So for this reason I don't particularly get upset if people moving to the UK have varying degrees of English language knowledge.
And if I have to make a phone call to someone who speaks another language, why should I not be allowed to make the call when I'm on a bus? Why should I feel afraid to do this? where does this type of thinking end? If you don't speak an accent that is easily understood to everyone, should I then speak Queen's accent English so everyone knows exactly what I say....and if some groups of British culture are brought up not to listen in to other people's conversations and to stare at people in public, what difference does the language of conversation make?

I wouldn't say not liking to listen to other languages in public is necessarily racist - but it could lead to an atmosphere of intolerance for diversity - which people with racist attitudes greatly welcome.

[Ruth Abou Rached]

"invasion" ....I would be careful using militaristic metaphors concerning people moving from one country to the other. "invasion" is a correct word when referring to the times the UK sent its armies and officials to colonise and rob various parts of the world....as have other various military powers over the years. Or doesn't that count?

Elite voting for Remain : ...All sorts of people voted both ways, As a working class woman on a limited income does that make me elitist if I wanted to stay in Europe????
I've certainly not had any living standards imposed on me except by my incomes and the policies of various UK governments. And I live in a pretty mixed area and believe me I live day to day with whatever life in the UK throws at me! I do not see that as a reason to [[mis)direct my anger towards other people though, certainly not on the basis on where they come from!

[oladub]

"invasion" ....I would be careful using militaristic metaphors concerning people moving from one country to the other. "invasion" is a correct word when referring to the times the UK sent its armies and officials to colonise and rob various parts of the world....as have other various military powers over the years. Or doesn't that count?

Elite voting for Remain : ...All sorts of people voted both ways, As a working class woman on a limited income does that make me elitist if I wanted to stay in Europe????
I've certainly not had any living standards imposed on me except by my incomes and the policies of various UK governments. And I live in a pretty mixed area and believe me I live day to day with whatever life in the UK throws at me! I do not see that as a reason to [[mis)direct my anger towards other people though, certainly not on the basis on where they come from!

"Invasion" is accurate. Millions of people are pouring into Europe illegally. No, this is not a military invasion but it is an illegal invasion. Who can blame these illegal aliens though? They leave poverty and oppressive societies seeking a better life. Often invasions are preceded by military conquest such as
the European invasions of the Americas opening up lebensraum for the conquerers' peoples. However, there was little resistance by Europe so for the price of a ticket on a rubber raft, a better life can be achieved. Anything that is subsidized, expands. If it is Europe's choice to begrudgingly accept the invaders and provide for them, the result is that more will follow. That is Europe's choice.

Some non-Europeans do express the invasion as such: “We have 50 million Muslims in Europe,”“There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe – without swords, without guns, without conquests. The 50 million Muslims of Europe will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades.” -Khaddafi

It's interesting that your sympathies side with the colonials against the UK. Your expressed loyalty doesn't seem to be to the U.K.. It sounds like you justify the invasion as the U.K.'s punishment for its former colonialism.

We have the same thing going on in the US. California is reverting to a hacienda economy where the elites advantage themselves partly by bringing in cheaper foreign labor caste forming a coalition between the elites lining their pockets and people they brought in as lower paid foreign workers legally or otherwise. US workers don't share the benefits of cheaper labor being brought in to displace them. That's Supply and Demand 101.

[coracle]

There was this guy named Rudyard Kipling that Wikipedia tells us was British, wrote in English, but was actually born in Bombay; which is now Mumbai - would he be a Brit?

Anyway he gave us some brilliantly sensible advice which our elites ignore at our peril, when he wrote "East is East and West is West and never the twain shall meet" [["not due to an inherent worthiness of English as a language over other languages." of course).

As for "referring to the times the UK sent its armies and officials to colonise and rob various parts of the world...." They have left. When are the invading immigrants leaving? Until they do I would say NO it doesn't count.

A British Passport at one time was a very coveted document. Now practicaly anybody in the world can get in by association. Even 300/400 million Europeans in EU can enter; soon to be increased by 80 million secular Muslims from Turkey which will provide an easy gateway to many more Asian Muslims. [[and of course England is not a Muslim country - yet). Welfare checks and free housing et al will make England a Muslim country in circa 50 years.

I suppose it's coveted even more now because it's a passport to your free stuff which is better than European free stuff [[and you gotta learn a new language to get it).

[Ruth Abou Rached]

According to the news articles I had read, Turkey's application for EU status is not new and has been on hold for a number of years. It is likely to be on hold for many years to come.

Rudyard Kipling is definitely of English descent but was born in India at the time of UK occupation. He certainly wrote from his own perspective.
I wouldn't take his word as universally applicable - he wrote in contexts of his time.
I think his poem "If" is more applicable to the UK right now - for women as well as men!

My experience of living in countries deemed by the US and UK as "Eastern" is that people are not so different from each other. East and West is just relative geography from where anyone of us is standing at any one time.
As a non-Muslim living in pre-dominantly Muslim areas [[ without covering my head or wearing "Eastern"-style clothing), I never experienced any problems or threats to my identity. It's not the religion itself people are born into, but the tolerance of spirit and respect by which it is practiced.

A coloniser leaving is not the end of the story in most cases. Unless you're thinking of Canada's Quiet Revolution in 1965 which was bloodless.

After Brexit, every Brit with the right to apply for another EU passport, is doing so! I'm sure if any Brit has US or Canadian ancestry, they'll be applying your side of the pond:-)

[Ruth Abou Rached]

What "The Economist" is saying from economic point of view
http://discover.economist.com/?a=217...BR-LIT&cid3=UM