Suspected Islamic extremist kills 50+ at club in Orlando

[Zacha341]

Horrible attack. More updates to come:

cnn.com/2016/06/12/us/orlando-nightclub-shooting/index.html

orlandosentinel.com/news/pulse-orlando-nightclub-shooting/

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3637414/Everyone-running-Gunman-bursts-gay-nightclub-Florida-shoots-20-people-taking-hostages.html

[lpg]

How do you outlaw hate ???

[Bobl]

Outlawing hate is impossible. Some people are just no damned good. Encouraging logic and reason, rather than religious zealotry and dogma might improve things a bit. When these cowardly acts are done by evil and weak minded fools, I reach out to family and friends, maybe perform random acts of kindness. In the words of Walt Whitman: "I have learned that to be with those I like is enough".

[Johnnny5]

Very sad day for America and especially for those that knew and loved those killed.

I will say that it sickens me to hear this scumbag's name and to see his face on every TV and news website. I don't want to spend the next few months hearing about his life story, his religion, his upbringing or his past. We should be hearing about the victims and their lives. This has to stop!

[Bobl]

Very sad day for America and especially for those that knew and loved those killed.

I will say that it sickens me to hear this scumbag's name and to see his face on every TV and news website. I don't want to spend the next few months hearing about his life story, his religion, his upbringing or his past. We should be hearing about the victims and their lives. This has to stop!

Agreed. There is no good reason to give the perpetrator the attention he craved. Unfortunately, the desire for cash flow via advertising clouds the judgment of the media outlets. Shame on them, as well as the zealots who encourage these actions with their illogical, but profitable, dogma._

[G-DDT]

My condolences to family and friends who've lost loved ones in this ugly hate crime.

[Hypestyles]

http://hypestyleshomebase.blogspot.c...tions-few.html

I wish I could say it won't happen "again", in some form, but... this has become a new normal.

[Zacha341]

The resultant chaos in how we perceive the cause and motive may be used for politics, to policy.

The question remains, what do we do to prevent another terror attack upon innocents here in US?

http://hypestyleshomebase.blogspot.c...tions-few.html

I wish I could say it won't happen "again", in some form, but... this has become a new normal.

[Johnnny5]

The question remains what do we do to prevent another terror attack among innocents here in US?

Sad to say, but we can't. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the World and even if just a tiny percentage of Muslims hold violent and extremist views, it's still a force of such size that we can never defeat them. I'm of the opinion that the only long term solution for reducing the threat of Islamic terrorism to the U.S is to reduce our involvement in the affairs of Islamic nations.

Osama Bin Laden himself wrote a letter to America detailing his reasons for attacking the U.S and repeatedly cited our military and political activities in the Middle East. We've already spent nearly two decades fighting this battle. So much so that many of the Muslim extremists we're fighting today in Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan were just young children on 911. Whether we call them Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, the Taliban or ISIS it makes no difference. Even if we do manage to defeat ISIS we'll only be ingraining hatred for the West in the next generation.

[oladub]

Sad to say, but we can't. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the World and even if just a tiny percentage of Muslims hold violent and extremist views, it's still a force of such size that we can never defeat them. I'm of the opinion that the only long term solution for reducing the threat of Islamic terrorism to the U.S is to reduce our involvement in the affairs of Islamic nations.

Osama Bin Laden himself wrote a letter to America detailing his reasons for attacking the U.S and repeatedly cited our military and political activities in the Middle East. We've already spent nearly two decades fighting this battle. So much so that many of the Muslim extremists we're fighting today in Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan were just young children on 911. Whether we call them Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, the Taliban or ISIS it makes no difference. Even if we do manage to defeat ISIS we'll only be ingraining hatred for the West in the next generation.

I agree about getting out. In fact Omar said "he had gone on a killing spree because he “wanted America to stop bombing his country."" His "country" probably meant Afghanistan though he was born and educated in the US. We've seen a number of Somali kids raised in the Twin Cities go off to fight for Islam too. One of the few good things Obama has done is to fund the development of EVs. Let's get out of the mideast and make it difficult for mid-easterners to do more than visit the States. Enough is enough. They still have oil and should be ok without us.

"At least 480,000 people overstayed their visas last year [[not just from the mid-east), adding to a backlog that’s reached some 5 million total, members of Congress said. But immigration agents launched investigations into just 10,000 of them, or about 0.2 percent, and arrested fewer than 2,000, less than 0.04 percent"

Our government has failed in its priorities. Its computers and borders no longer work. Our infrastructure is failing. High speed railroads never got built. It favors foreign interests over our own.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/14/illegal-immigrants-who-overstay-visas-almost-never/

[G-DDT]

There is still a lot much to be said and documented about all of this:http://heavy.com/news/2016/06/omar-m...ive-terrorism/

1.) It is the largest single-handed gunman-based massacre on U.S. soil topping above The Virginia Tech and Sandy Hook shootings. So, it is not to be ignored.

2.) Mateen was a U.S.-born citizen. He was registered as a Democrat. He was a former security guard who even worked for a courthouse. His co-workers said he was unstable and would frequently make racist and homophobic remarks. He was married two times, and his ex-wife, Sitora, said he was not very religious and would abuse her over stupid things. Mateen was believed to have made comments about the Tsarnaev brothers [[who were "Chechen"-identified self-radicalized terrorists with no direct Isis ties. Yet, aside from the Marathon bombings, I just found out now about a triple homicide in Waltham https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_W..._triple_murderthat happened implicating them when I was living in Cambridge/working in Boston, having left Waltham seven months earlier. Why I didn't hear about it then when I was living there...? I do very much remember seeing the younger brother many times in front of the Rindge & Latin HS adjacent to the library I often frequented.).

3.) Usually, a terrorist posts things online or leaves some recording to be found later. This guy actually pulled a Riddler and called 911 to announce his action. That is counter-intuitive to the behavior of so many mass-murderers before him. The exception being neuroscience studies major James Holmes, who-after his brutal theater onslaught-in a daze, surrendered and casually mentions the elaborate booby-trap bomb rigged house to the very police he would've wanted to trigger it. Seems there is an odd conflict of impulses going on here.

4.) Mateen targeted a gay club celebrating Latin night. Most of the victims were non-white. One news report initially reported that there was a need for discretion in releasing names publicly and [[eventually) to family as some close to the victims may not have known about their lifestyle; yet, names are now being released. During the stand-off, it was mentioned that Mateen took hostages and made demands. No reports have been made so far listing any of those demands.

5.) Not too far off in timing, a James Howell http://www.indystar.com/story/news/c...ives/85795006/[[Louisville HS graduate and Indiana resident), shows up at a pride rally in Santa Monica very well armed. He, too, betrayed his scheme by loitering around suspiciously and knocking on people's doors [[expecting to meet a contact there?). Neighbors described him as an unstable person who liked to point his guns at folks.

6.) Also, in Orlando, Christina Grimmie, an up-and-coming pop star finishing a concert, gets gunned down by a man, and there is yet to be any revealed information as to who he is to her or why he did it.

7.) There is response from genuinely religious Muslims condemning the attackshttp://time.com/4365689/orlando-shoo...lim-nightclub/ andhttp://www.myajc.com/news/news/local...satanic/nrfMd/ . Of course, the Vatican condemned the attackhttp://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2016...ictims/1236740.

Even if there is little sense to be made of any of this, let's hope and pray to God above that only peace and healing is to follow.

[oladub]

A few other notes to add to G-DDT's: Omar's parents were admitted to the US under Reagan. It was Reagan who armed Al Queda to fight Soviet invaders. Omar's father has a radio program addressed primarily to Afghani Pashtuns living in the US. He seems to fancy himself as a leader of an imaginary Afghani government in exile. He attended prayers regularly with his son. A friend of Omar said that Omar became religious since his divorce. Omar's wife didn't like being beaten for things like not having the wash done when he came home. Omar's dad contends that Omar did not kill for religious reasons and said, this morning, that Allah will punish homosexuals so it is not necessary for Muslims to do so.

Omar travelled to Saudi Arabia in 2011 and 2012. The FBI investigated him in 2013 because co-workers reported that he had made inflammatory Islamic propaganda talking points to them. The FBI investigated him again in 2014 because he had ties to an American who traveled to the mid-east to be a suicide bomber.

The security firm Omar worked for is a subsidiary of the largest security firm in the world. The parent firm has contracts with the US Department of Homeland Security to ship non-Mexican illegal aliens caught at the border to Phoenix and release them without court intervention. Omar was not reported to be involved with that activity but it is amazing the links, the state of things, Omar's massacre is unearthing.

Meanwhile our corporate owned main stream press has gone into overdrive trying to focus on the gun control issue even though it did report Omar's declaration of support for ISIS prior to carrying out his massacre. CBS, this morning, concluded a report by saying Omar had no association with ISIS prior to the massacre; presumably not including his declaration of allegiance to ISIS. ABC is reported to be scrubbing anti-Muslim comments. The President answered a multi part question about why all Chicago's gun control laws don't work by rambling on about NRA obstructionism and never mentioning why Chicago or Florida's gun control laws failed. The President said people who can be put on a no fly list can still buy guns but didn't say that Omar had been vetted by both his employer the FBI who could find no evidence of fault. Nor has anyone claimed Omar was on a no fly list. Obfuscation is the order of the day.

[Pam]

Isil or asshole? This guy is indistinguishable from any other all American male berserk gunman. He used to beat his wife. He hated gay people. He didn't need to be "radicalized" to decide to use violence. It's all too common in our culture. All he had to do was watch the news to get ideas.

[lpg]

Isil or asshole? This guy is indistinguishable from any other all American male berserk gunman. He used to beat his wife. He hated gay people. He didn't need to be "radicalized" to decide to use violence. It's all too common in our culture. All he had to do was watch the news to get ideas.

And he got world wide coverage in the process, along with every other maniac that commits mass murder. Your 15 minutes of fame guaranteed.

[Pam]

Shooter was a repeat customer at the bar, may have been gay.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/r...222620444.html

He told the Post he thought Mateen was gay, but not publicly. He added that Mateen was "awkward" and other members of their friend group felt sorry for him.

"He just wanted to fit in and no one liked him," he told the Post. "He was always socially awkward."

Sounds like one of those kids who shot up his high school.

[coracle]

Shooter was a repeat customer at the bar, may have been gay.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/r...222620444.html

Can't sleep Pam? Hope you had breakfast first.
Although he called 911 and informed them of his ISIS "connection" and his use of "Allah Akbar" and he being an "anchor baby" of Afghani parents with grandiose ideas, we will have to accept that he did what he did for every possible reason except extremest islamic terrorism because that doesn't exit. Wonder how being a registered democrat fits in?

[jcole]

Can't sleep Pam? Hope you had breakfast first.
Although he called 911 and informed them of his ISIS "connection" and his use of "Allah Akbar" and he being an "anchor baby" of Afghani parents with grandiose ideas, we will have to accept that he did what he did for every possible reason except extremest islamic terrorism because that doesn't exit. Wonder how being a registered democrat fits in?

Although he was born an American citizen, homophobic, a violent wife beater and possibly a closet gay who frequented that nightclub, we'll have to accept the only reason he did this was because he was a Muslim because an American couldn't do this. Wonder if being a registered Republican fits in?

[coracle]

Although he was born an American citizen, homophobic, a violent wife beater and possibly a closet gay who frequented that nightclub, we'll have to accept the only reason he did this was because he was a Muslim because an American couldn't do this. Wonder if being a registered Republican fits in?

That's nonsense.

[jcole]

That's nonsense.

Which is exactly how I feel about your post

[Pam]

Although he called 911 and informed them of his ISIS "connection" and his use of "Allah Akbar" and he being an "anchor baby" of Afghani parents with grandiose ideas, we will have to accept that he did what he did for every possible reason except extremest islamic terrorism because that doesn't exit. Wonder how being a registered democrat fits in?

He might have been a terrorist wannabe, or claimed that as an excuse. But if he was born here and acted alone and not as part of a group, then his claim is irrelevant. The anti gay or personal rejection motive is the real motive. The media likes to run with the "radical Islam" theme to whip up hysteria. I never said it doesn't exist, I just don't think it fits this guy.

[Richard]

He might have been a terrorist wannabe, or claimed that as an excuse. But if he was born here and acted alone and not as part of a group, then his claim is irrelevant. The anti gay or personal rejection motive is the real motive. The media likes to run with the "radical Islam" theme to whip up hysteria. I never said it doesn't exist, I just don't think it fits this guy.

I agree with you on this,there is another club down the street from that one called the Parliament House.

It is a motel with several nightclubs inside 5 times the size of Pulse,considering one wanted to do massive collateral damage, and that one could be considered a den of whatever that by far supersedes Pulse night club.

I would seem like this was more of a jilted vendetta,if he was a terrorist why go in there with a gun [[non assault weapon),he could have just as easily put on a vest and leveled the whole building,if he was connected he would have had excess.

It happens all of the time,somebody in the bar gets pissed off goes outside and comes back with a weapon,has been happening forever.

The thing that bothers me is even though it is a travesty is has been made into a attack on the LGBT community as a stand alone group and the victims have become martyrs of sort.

It has nothing to do with as a country,49 fellow Americans were killed in a senseless attack,but a separate group within the country.

When the Paris attacks happened the entire US supported the country,I would think that it does not matter race,color,creed,or sexual preference lives were taken,this happens and Paris lights up the tower in the rainbow colors as a show of solidarity.

It shows that certain groups within the country wish to be acknowledged [[by passing laws) and be treated equally but yet still stay divided from the rest of the country.

His father propagates in his weekly pod casts hate for America and the christian way,but yet hides in the US under the freedom of speech,I think it would be safe to say he had a negative influence during the upbringing of his son.His ass should have been given a one way ticket back to his home country of Afghanistan years ago.

United we stand divided we fall.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Ok, actually acknowledging the critical distinction[[s) between followers of Islam who DON'T support the radicals [[who also kill other Muslims) gets us out AHEAD of the very Islamophobia we want to avoid!!

NOT MAKING the critical distinction is part of the problem! In some instances causing more discrimination.

The media is not as able to 'easy bake' this one. If anything they want to continue with the standard narrative, but hard to square this time. It seems clear so far that this man acted out of an ideology shared by others. If we take him at his own words.

CAIR quickly denounced the extremists, and any connection inferred or otherwise for sake of the larger Muslim population that do not seek such violence or share the same ideologies. I will try to take them at their word as well.

[Zacha341]

The either/ or does not fit so neatly and nice. We DO know is that an American OR other can kill in mass, and have done so. We now have more people justifying their reasoning to kill, and kill more at once, in one place!

[coracle]

I just heard a good one on the radio while driving home today. Some guy suggested the Islamists were getting pissed off because no matter how many massacres and shootings they manage to pull off Obama/Hillary always give the credit for their acts of war to some other persons or groups or situations - like workplace violence and similar. They just can't catch a break and get noticed.

[Zacha341]

Umm, eh-uh that's an unfortunate outworking -- Ooops!

...Obama/Hillary always give the credit for their acts of war to some other persons or groups or situations - like workplace violence and similar. They just can't catch a break and get noticed.