Practise Makes Perfect-Join the H1N1 Riots!

[East Detroit]

Jeepers, I thought ccBatson said he only commented on content, not people.

[elganned]

Like all of Cc's lofty prounouncements, you should take that one with a large grain of salt.

[EastSider]

Swine flu death rate similar to seasonal flu: expert

Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:06pm EDT
By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Editor

WASHINGTON [[Reuters) - The death rate from the pandemic H1N1 swine flu is likely lower than earlier estimates, an expert in infectious diseases said on Wednesday.

New estimates suggest that the death rate compares to a moderate year of seasonal influenza, said Dr Marc Lipsitch of Harvard University.

"It's mildest in kids. That's one of the really good pieces of news in this pandemic," Lipsitch told a meeting of flu experts being held by the U.S. Institute of Medicine.
"Barring any changes in the virus, I think we can say we are in a category 1 pandemic. This has not become clear until fairly recently."

The Pandemic Severity Index set by the U.S. government has five categories of pandemic, with a category 1 being comparable to a seasonal flu epidemic.
Seasonal flu has a death rate of less than 0.1 percent -- but still manages to kill 250,000 to 500,000 people globally every year.

A category 5 pandemic would compare to the 1918 flu pandemic, which had an estimated death rate of 2 percent or more, and would kill tens of million of people.
Lipsitch took information from around the world on how many people had reported they had influenza-like illness, which may or may not actually be influenza; government reports of actual hospitalizations and confirmed deaths.

He came up with a range of mortality from swine flu, from 0.007 percent to 0.045 percent.

Either way, having new information about how many people were infected and did not become severely ill or die makes the pandemic look very mild, he said.

"The news is certainly better than it was in May and even better than it was at the beginning of August," Lipsitch said.

H1N1 swine flu was declared a pandemic in June after flashing around the world in six weeks. Experts all said a true death rate would not be clear for weeks because it is impossible to test every patient and because people with mild cases may never be diagnosed.

This lack of information made the epidemics in various countries and cities look worse at first than they actually were, Lipsitch said. People sick enough to be hospitalized are almost always tested first.

"Yes, there's been hype, but I don't think it's been an outrageous amount of hype," Lipsitch said.

Seasonal flu is usually far worse among the elderly, who make up 90 percent of the deaths every year. In contrast, this flu is attacking younger adults and older children, but they are not dying of it at the same rate as the elderly, Lipsitch said.


© Thomson Reuters 2009. All rights reserved.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE58E6NZ20090916

[East Detroit]

But he didn't call him any names, which is the legalistic determinant.

For instance, I can say that Cc is mistaken, myopic, narrow-minded, callous, and blind to the realities of living in the non-six-figure-income world.

But I can't say he's a block-headed fascist. That would be name-calling: strictly prohibited.

So, fascist is not okay, but lib is okay?

[gibran]

What do you guys make of this...cc et al ...cry they don't want the government in their lives...but they support it cart blanc when it comes to other aspects of their lives...like the military. They run around yelling freedom of speech which by the way is guaranteed by OUR government...

Then you look at the protesters..all wearing the American flag and saying they want to protect our values....ummmm yet they don't value the poor uninsured...I find this a little odd. Aren't they seeing that the Flag they waive so proudly is a symbol of their government that they don't want protecting their health...guess I must have missed that lesson in civics..or church.

[ccbatson]

So easy Gibran...I am not an advocate of anarchy/no government...I am an advocate for constitutionally limited government. Limited to defense [[foreign and domestic), laws to arbitrate for just contractual relations between free individuals [[and corporations), and voluntary taxation to fund said services.

[Gannon]

Here's your latest installment:

http://www.freep.com/article/2009101...cine-shortages

Americans who have become hyperaware of swine flu as the disease sweeps the globe are overwhelming doctors' offices, clinics and U.S. drugstores for the seasonal-flu vaccine as well, leading to shortages.




The two influenza strains, with similar symptoms and outcomes, may circulate concurrently in the United States for the first time beginning this month, normally the official start of the flu season, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said. They require separate vaccinations that can be given at the same time.

Bang-bang, you're already dead, if you choose to go with the flow on this and get the vaccines. If you don't, it is likely you'll see the inside of some detention center. Then they'll kill you.

Curious times, indeed.

[elganned]

So, what you're saying is we're dead either way, whether we get the vaccine or not? Pretty gloom-and-doom outlook there, wouldn't you say?

[rb336]

let's watch the avian flu and swine flu combine into a superflu. [[flu viruses exchange bits when in the same host)

when pig's fly, you say?

[Gannon]

I'm doing MY best to avoid it, and you should, too.

The moment they start enforcing this vaccine, watch out!


All indications show that they are planning on making this the biggest population divider in our history.


They pre-sold it for half a year. The DNA shows that it was very likely a manufactured virus...there is little room for pure chance in the makeup...and the vectors of arrival also indicated human manipulation and delivery. Shows intent. Purpose.

I don't believe the reason is only for pure profit, as others believe, although that is a huge part of it. I fully believe this is population control, as desired by whomever paid to have the Georgia Guidestones installed.


I will keep on strengthening my immune system, getting as much rest & Vitamin C as I can, and avoiding contacting others with infection...although last night it was tough keeping the little virus-bomb of a grand-daughter of a friend away from my stuff while visiting him. She was unbelievably persistent!

Cheers

[ccbatson]

Historic precedents and vaccinations will protect against that doomsday scenario Rb.

[elganned]

Assuming, of course, that people get the vaccinations--which is not looking good, right now.
And what "historic precedents" can you name that will prevent such a pandemic, I wonder?

[Gannon]

Historic Precedents?!

I bet. Hell, EVERY one of these flu viruses have evolved from 1918, right?! Each time they morph, we get sick again...the flu somehow stays 'just' ahead of our immune systems natural growth curve. We've been chasing it ever since we learned what it was.


We got fucking LUCKY when Ebola got over here, and morphed into flu-like symptoms when it went airborne. It is still a two-week killer when blood-borne...doing to the body what AIDS does in seven years.


You'd better sit down, doctor, you're talking out of your ass again. At least when you're sitting, we can't hear you as well.

[rb336]

Historic precedents and vaccinations will protect against that doomsday scenario Rb.

what is the average amount of time it takes to develope a vaccine? [[ps -- historic precedents don't protect against much. Not even when they should -- watch as a bunch of right-wing activist judges overturn over 100 years of legal precedent this month)

let's say an extremely contagious and virulent hybrid between avian flu and h1n1 comes out, complete with air-born transmission. let's say it can be transmitted when the infected person is asymptomatic. let's say an early "victim" with the new flu gets on a 747 for Heathrow with 400 other people [[prior to it being identified - not an unlikely scenario). let's say he infects 2 flight attendants and 8 people around him on the long flight. then they get off, 3 go into the tubes, 3 get on other flights, two take surface transport. you do see where this is going, don't you?

[Gannon]

The Universe is synergistic! I just got this from a Facebook friend:

From vaccinationdebate.com website

Take a look at some of the historical data below showing various vaccination programs and the outbreak of that very disease either immediately to several years later.

In 1871-2, England, with 98% of the population aged between 2 and 50 vaccinated against smallpox, it experienced its worst ever smallpox outbreak with 45,000 deaths. During the same period in Germany, with a vaccination rate of 96%, there were over 125,000 deaths from smallpox. [[The Hadwen Documents)

- In Germany, compulsory mass vaccination against diphtheria commenced in 1940 and by 1945 diphtheria cases were up from 40,000 to 250,000. [[Don`t Get Stuck, Hannah Allen)

- In the USA in 1960, two virologists discovered that both polio vaccines were contaminated with the SV 40 virus which causes cancer in animals as well as changes in human cell tissue cultures. Millions of children had been injected with these vaccines. [[Med Jnl of Australia 17/3/1973 p555)

- In 1967, Ghana was declared measles free by the World Health Organisation after 96% of its population was vaccinated. In 1972, Ghana experienced one of its worst measles outbreaks with its highest ever mortality rate. [[Dr H Albonico, MMR Vaccine Campaign in Switzerland, March 1990)

- In the UK between 1970 and 1990, over 200,000 cases of whooping cough occurred in fully vaccinated children. [[Community Disease Surveillance Centre, UK)

- In the 1970`s a tuberculosis vaccine trial in India involving 260,000 people revealed that more cases of TB occurred in the vaccinated than the unvaccinated. [[The Lancet 12/1/80 p73)

- In 1977, Dr Jonas Salk, who developed the first polio vaccine, testified along with other scientists that mass inoculation against polio was the cause of most polio cases throughout the USA since 1961. [[Science 4/4/77 "Abstracts" )

- In 1978, a survey of 30 States in the US revealed that more than half of the children who contracted measles had been adequately vaccinated. [[The People`s Doctor, Dr R Mendelsohn)

- In 1979, Sweden abandoned the whooping cough vaccine due to its ineffectiveness. Out of 5,140 cases in 1978, it was found that 84% had been vaccinated three times! [[BMJ 283:696-697, 1981)

-The February 1981 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association found that 90% of obstetricians and 66% of pediatricians refused to take the rubella vaccine.

- In the USA, the cost of a single DPT shot had risen from 11 cents in 1982 to $11.40 in 1987. The manufacturers of the vaccine were putting aside $8 per shot to cover legal costs and damages they were paying out to parents of brain damaged children and children who died after vaccination. [[The Vine, Issue 7, January 1994, Nambour, Qld)

- In Oman between 1988 and 1989, a polio outbreak occurred amongst thousands of fully vaccinated children. The region with the highest attack rate had the highest vaccine coverage. The region with the lowest attack rate had the lowest vaccine coverage. [[The Lancet, 21/9/91)

- In 1990, a UK survey involving 598 doctors revealed that over 50% of them refused to have the Hepatitis B vaccine despite belonging to the high risk group urged to be vaccinated. [[British Med Jnl, 27/1/1990) - In 1990, the Journal of the American Medical Association had an article on measles which stated, "Although more than 95% of school-aged children in the US are vaccinated against measles, large measles outbreaks continue to occur in schools and most cases in this setting occur among previously vaccinated children." [[JAMA, 21/11/90)

- In the USA, from July 1990 to November 1993, the US Food and Drug Administration counted a total of 54,072 adverse reactions following vaccination. The FDA admitted that this number represented only 10% of the real total, because most doctors were refusing to report vaccine injuries. In other words, adverse reactions for this period exceeded half a million! [[National Vaccine Information Centre, March 2, 1994) - In the New England Journal of Medicine July 1994 issue a study found that over 80% of children under 5 years of age who had contracted whooping cough had been fully vaccinated.

- On November 2nd, 2000, the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons [[AAPS) announced that its members voted at their 57th annual meeting in St Louis to pass a resolution calling for an end to mandatory childhood vaccines. The resolution passed without a single "no" vote. [[Report by Michael Devitt)

EAT IT, herr Doktor.

[Gannon]

From the article: http://www.facebook.com/note.php?not...0531315&ref=nf

The first three paragraphs, for those who choose to not click the link:

Historical Data Shows Vaccines are Not what Saved Us

Friday, October 9, 2009 at 3:00am


[[NaturalNews) With all of the hype surrounding the H1N1 swine flu virus lately, everyone is very concerned with the safety and effectiveness of vaccines, and rightly so. This is a very important question that we must all ask ourselves and find out what the truth is. As the debate rages on an even more important question has rarely been asked. Do vaccines even protect you from the viruses and illnesses that they claim to?

If you only get your news and information from mainstream news and educational sources, then the question about whether vaccines are effective is never even raised. This lack of discussion give the perception that they are so effective that only a crazy or ignorant person would even think otherwise. Of course that is the perception that they are trying to get across to you, but that is far from the truth.

In fact if you take a look at some of the historical facts on the effectiveness of vaccines you will begin to see that not only did they too often not protect people from the very diseases that they claimed to but they actually caused outbreaks of those same diseases they were hyped to prevent.

[ccbatson]

How long to develp a flu vaccine? 3-6months every year for decades [[same as for H1N1).

Historic precedents meaning probablities Rb...lightning very rarely strikes twice in the same spot, even more rare to do so within 2 hours of a first strike...etc.

[Gannon]

WHAT?!


That makes no sense, doctor. None at all.


You sound quite foolish in your retort.

[ccbatson]

I was referring to the very unlikely scenario of H1N1 AND the Avian flu combining to form a scourge pandemic...the odds are so long as to skirt the impossible.

[rb336]

I was referring to the very unlikely scenario of H1N1 AND the Avian flu combining to form a scourge pandemic...the odds are so long as to skirt the impossible.

which is why I said "when pigs fly" -- you came back with your typical simple-minded response. IF such a hybrid happened -- or any other really nasty pandemic/high fatality flu emerged, the 6 months could easily result in thousands, if not millions, of deaths world wide and make the spanish lady look like a minor episode

[ccbatson]

The rest of your quote Rb? "When pigs fly, YOU SAY?" You left the last part out which is a sarcastic element implying that it isn't so unlikely.

[Dumpling]

Thought that it would be nice to append the Cliffs notes for
this next flu season to a previous classic thread on flu virus.

http://time.com/5068553/this-years-f...se-than-usual/

There are far more cases of flu being reported in California
this flu season. They are mostly the H3N2 version of Influenza A. The current vaccines match up closely with the current circulating strains of H3N2 but at the same time are not terribly effective. That is apparently because the vaccine production process is generating a mutation which shifts the produced virus from the majority group to the minority group.

In the 2017 flu season in Australia, which is a forerunner to the 2017-2018 flu season in the United States, "babies and young children are bearing the brunt of an unprecedented flu outbreak as four separate strains of the virus run rampant across Sydney and NSW" [[Jack Morphet, The Sunday Telegraph).

[Dumpling]

H3N2 is usually a harder hitting version of influenza than H1N1.

Taking all of this together THIS is THE year to see to it that,
especially, children under age ten are immunized even though
the current vaccine is not terribly effective. It apparently does
not slow the spread of the virus very well but does reduce the
symptoms in those who contract influenza.

[Dumpling]

The Michigan Department of Community Health links to the CDC
for its influenza info. This year antiviral medications [[eg Tamiflu)
are recommended in addition to vaccination, here is the CDC page:

https://emergency.cdc.gov/han/han00409.asp

[Zacha341]

Keeping your hands out of your mouth and useful as well. Vigorous and frequent hand washing doesn't hurt either.

I'm not talking OCD Howard Hughs level --- just wash them often seeing as how germs are spread from touch as well as in the air.

I always wash my hands once I come into the house for the day.