Ilitch's Biggest Flops?

[dguy4evr]

I think you mean "devolves".

And it is not ok that as a result of lack of education, and fools misusing words that 2 very different words now mean the same thing to some people.

So now there's no word for destroying 1/10 of something?

We'll have no word for a baby goat? No word to infer legal obligation?

We'll need to talk in very long sentences filled with 3 letter words because no one can actually speak English?

TV is all done at a 6th grade education level,.. so even idiots can enjoy it. And the average TV broadcaster has an education level not much above that.

Are we to allow them to be the ultimate determiners of language? Does the teenage valet at your local mall get to determine the car you drive?

Why is it that some people seem to hover around these websites and try to impress everyone with their vast fountain of proper usage and grammar?
I don't have a college degree, so I can't hold my own with some of you who try to impress with their knowledge of the English language. However, I am able to get the gist of most of these threads that are posted. What I do know is if I wish to post a thread or reply that is not in danger of being picked apart by the pseudo English professors I will enroll in some college courses and be done with it. That said, I will be content to post my replies using my limited knowledge of the English language and hope they will convey what I wish to say.

I hope this doesn't hurt anyone's feelings, this was just meant to convey an opinion.

[Wesley Mouch]

National Housing Institute[/URL] says were "typically downtown businesses, developers, banks, major daily newspapers, big-city mayors and construction unions – what John Mollenkopf would later call the 'growth coalition' and Harvey Molotch would label the 'growth machine.' Most planners and architects at the time joined the urban renewal chorus. It was, after all, their bread and butter."...snip sorry jane...

You are right to call me out on pejoratives, but wrong about the roots of urban renewal. It was a coalition, to be sure. But it had moral underpinnings from the left. Businessmen were not in the business of creating Model Cities. They just wanted old gone. I don't think most developers thought Cabrini Green or Brewster Projects were a good ideas.

[Bigdd]

Why is it that some people seem to hover around these websites and try to impress everyone with their vast fountain of proper usage and grammar?
I don't have a college degree, so I can't hold my own with some of you who try to impress with their knowledge of the English language. However, I am able to get the gist of most of these threads that are posted. What I do know is if I wish to post a thread or reply that is not in danger of being picked apart by the pseudo English professors I will enroll in some college courses and be done with it. That said, I will be content to post my replies using my limited knowledge of the English language and hope they will convey what I wish to say.

I hope this doesn't hurt anyone's feelings, this was just meant to convey an opinion.

Then you'll be happy to know it wasn't me that started this. I saw it,.. and let it go.

But then another poster on here got into the grammar bit,... and reprimanded another poster [["pejorative alert,.. etc"),.. and even HE got the word wrong,.. so I typed that [[Figuring a grammar correcter type would appreciate that sort of thing,.. and he did,.. typing a funny reply).

You should feel free to misuse words all you like,. and we'll do our best to figure out what you meant.

[Bham1982]

I don't think most developers thought Cabrini Green or Brewster Projects were a good ideas.

I don't know about that. The "projects", and slum renewal in general, were supported by both progressives and business interests. It was basically the consensus among decision makers of the time.

And, while I agree that urban renewal generally sucked, I think we're painting too broad a brush. The slums that were demolished were pretty awful, and often were firetraps and didn't have full indoor plumbing. The U.S. still had pretty horrific slums prior to urban renewal, it doesn't any more [[at least not in the classic sense of tumbledown cold water tenements).

The replacement housing was modern, spacious, well-built, with parks and schools and open space. Yeah, it went to hell very fast, but much of that was due to stupid tenancy preference rules, lack of maintenance funds, and white flight.

Public housing in NYC, even today, is pretty decent. They have generally maintained the system, and suffered less middle class flight. The housing shortage means that middle class households live in public housing. Not sure if the city would have been better off just keeping tumbledown slums.

[southen]

You are right to call me out on pejoratives, but wrong about the roots of urban renewal. It was a coalition, to be sure. But it had moral underpinnings from the left. Businessmen were not in the business of creating Model Cities. They just wanted old gone. I don't think most developers thought Cabrini Green or Brewster Projects were a good ideas.

Not every thread you comment in requires partisan comments and bickering. Nobody doubts your conservatism, ok?

[dguy4evr]

I don't know about that. The "projects", and slum renewal in general, were supported by both progressives and business interests. It was basically the consensus among decision makers of the time.

And, while I agree that urban renewal generally sucked, I think we're painting too broad a brush. The slums that were demolished were pretty awful, and often were firetraps and didn't have full indoor plumbing. The U.S. still had pretty horrific slums prior to urban renewal, it doesn't any more [[at least not in the classic sense of tumbledown cold water tenements).

The replacement housing was modern, spacious, well-built, with parks and schools and open space. Yeah, it went to hell very fast, but much of that was due to stupid tenancy preference rules, lack of maintenance funds, and white flight.

Public housing in NYC, even today, is pretty decent. They have generally maintained the system, and suffered less middle class flight. The housing shortage means that middle class households live in public housing. Not sure if the city would have been better off just keeping tumbledown slums.

My family lived in the Parkside Projects in the 50's and they were very well built with a great recreation building, swimming pool, ice rink, horseshoe pits, and a beautiful park. I loved living there.

[bust]

I don't know about that. The "projects", and slum renewal in general, were supported by both progressives and business interests. It was basically the consensus among decision makers of the time.

And, while I agree that urban renewal generally sucked, I think we're painting too broad a brush. The slums that were demolished were pretty awful, and often were firetraps and didn't have full indoor plumbing. The U.S. still had pretty horrific slums prior to urban renewal, it doesn't any more [[at least not in the classic sense of tumbledown cold water tenements).

The replacement housing was modern, spacious, well-built, with parks and schools and open space. Yeah, it went to hell very fast, but much of that was due to stupid tenancy preference rules, lack of maintenance funds, and white flight.

Public housing in NYC, even today, is pretty decent. They have generally maintained the system, and suffered less middle class flight. The housing shortage means that middle class households live in public housing. Not sure if the city would have been better off just keeping tumbledown slums.

I live on a block of 130 year old former boardinghouses for transients that have been rehabilitated and renovated and make for a great neighborhood today. The neighborhoods in Detroit that provided the closest analogue were among the ones "urban renewal" destroyed. Meanwhile, I once studied the history and design of public and private middle- and lower- income housing initiatives. So many failures, but some are indeed still good places to live today. The factors that led to their various outcomes were a subject I really got into, and the final paper I wrote about that was heavily over-researched and much longer than required, delivered very late.

This would be a really interesting discussion to continue when we're not hijacking Enduro's Ilitch Flop thread.

[Enduro]

This would be a really interesting discussion to continue when we're not hijacking Enduro's Ilitch Flop thread.

It's all good. Perhaps we've exhausted the failures of Mr. I? He is a billionaire after all.

And I'm sure District Detroit will be peppered with some real stinkers and we can revisit the original topic.

[Wesley Mouch]

OK, so sliding back to the tread... how much do we blame Ilitch as an individual -- and how much do we blame the government? Parking lots without required amenities? Stadiums & arena with taxpayer money? Is city hall at all to blame? Or is is all Ilitch.

[Gistok]

Everyone gets some blame.... even Wayne County for the Hotel and Liquor by the glass tax. And with Ford Field we can throw the State into the mix.... for raiding the Michigan Stategic Fund.