DFT Calls for DPS Sick out - schools closed

[ABetterDetroit]

I would agree with the Honorable Steven Rhodes that the DFT badly over played their hand at the worst possible time.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...kout/83993396/

[Honky Tonk]

I would agree with the Honorable Steven Rhodes that the DFT badly over played their hand at the worst possible time.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...kout/83993396/

$4 million here, another $4 million there, no big deal, the State has money....

[BankruptcyGuy]

How is this a monopoly when you have an abundance of charter schools?

The House plan is the one I read about.
Why no Education Commission? We have Charters with poor behavior in other states opening up here and we can't prevent bad actors like that from doing so. Plus pushing all of the special needs children to DPS is terrible. We have charters are fine, they bring some competition and micro-environments that can sometime be good but these two elements that benefit them don't make sense.

Yes, there isn't a monopoly today, because parents now have a choice in the form of charters. They used to have none.

The DEC is a blatant attempt by DPS to limit charter schools. Here's the proof: the proponents say that the DEC would be able to close non-performing schools. DPS already has the right to close their own non-performing schools, and they have violently resisted any such suggestion. Which non-performing schools do they wish to close? Charters. It's right out of the Bill DeBlasio playbook.

And for the record, charters cannot push off special needs children to DPS. They are required to accept all students, until they are full, after which they have a lottery. Charters do not provide transportation, so the majority of DPS parents with special needs children choose DPS. That's not the charter's fault. Any implication to the contrary is false.

[DeLemur]

Yes, there isn't a monopoly today, because parents now have a choice in the form of charters. They used to have none.

The DEC is a blatant attempt by DPS to limit charter schools. Here's the proof: the proponents say that the DEC would be able to close non-performing schools. DPS already has the right to close their own non-performing schools, and they have violently resisted any such suggestion. Which non-performing schools do they wish to close? Charters. It's right out of the Bill DeBlasio playbook.

And for the record, charters cannot push off special needs children to DPS. They are required to accept all students, until they are full, after which they have a lottery. Charters do not provide transportation, so the majority of DPS parents with special needs children choose DPS. That's not the charter's fault. Any implication to the contrary is false.

It's not the charter's fault they don't provide transportation to special needs children and thus saddle all of those children onto DPS?
That's a serious issue and means they have a serious advantage.
Charter schools need to carry their own water. If you want choice, then make it a fair choice. They need to take special needs kids and not with a straw man argument that its the transportation.

Again, on the second point Charter schools have a favorable position. Anyone can open a charter. Even Charter corporations that were corrupt in other states. How does that make sense?

Lastly, DPS schools have been closing by the droves. That is your concern with the Education Commission? Oversight of DPS has been extraordinary. Oversight of Charters and their finances not at all.

[BankruptcyGuy]

It's not the charter's fault they don't provide transportation to special needs children and thus saddle all of those children onto DPS?
That's a serious issue and means they have a serious advantage.
Charter schools need to carry their own water. If you want choice, then make it a fair choice. They need to take special needs kids and not with a straw man argument that its the transportation.

Again, on the second point Charter schools have a favorable position. Anyone can open a charter. Even Charter corporations that were corrupt in other states. How does that make sense?

Lastly, DPS schools have been closing by the droves. That is your concern with the Education Commission? Oversight of DPS has been extraordinary. Oversight of Charters and their finances not at all.

Charters don't provide transportation to anyone. Neither do private schools. Neither do schools of choice. Are inner-ring suburbs "saddling" DPS with special ed kids when parents of general ed kids choose to drive their kids to school? No, they are not.

I wanted to clear up the misconception: charters cannot turn away special ed kids. DPS proponents are claiming otherwise, and that's 100% wrong.

You write "Oversight of DPS has been extraordinary." I don't think there are many people who will agree with you. I might write "extraordinarily incompetent" or "extraordinarily lax" but not "extraordinary."

Simply put, parents of almost 40,000 kids have seen fit to leave DPS and attend a charter school. They are not all wrong, or duped, or fooled by the government. They are leaving because DPS has a poor quality product, and until that is fixed, it would be a crime to force those people, most of whom don't have the resources for private or suburban schools, to attend what they view as a lower-quality school.

[DeLemur]

Charters don't provide transportation to anyone. Neither do private schools. Neither do schools of choice. Are inner-ring suburbs "saddling" DPS with special ed kids when parents of general ed kids choose to drive their kids to school? No, they are not.

I wanted to clear up the misconception: charters cannot turn away special ed kids. DPS proponents are claiming otherwise, and that's 100% wrong.

You write "Oversight of DPS has been extraordinary." I don't think there are many people who will agree with you. I might write "extraordinarily incompetent" or "extraordinarily lax" but not "extraordinary."

Simply put, parents of almost 40,000 kids have seen fit to leave DPS and attend a charter school. They are not all wrong, or duped, or fooled by the government. They are leaving because DPS has a poor quality product, and until that is fixed, it would be a crime to force those people, most of whom don't have the resources for private or suburban schools, to attend what they view as a lower-quality school.

No one is forcing kids into DPS. No, there isn't a monopoly. These points of yours are clouded by emotions and not reality.

If DPS provides special needs transportation then charter schools need to as well. Bottom line. You want competition? Let's make it fair.

Charter schools can get 14 years of direct oversight from Lansing. Then I'll ask you if it's extraordinary. My guess is you say yes.

This House bill pays off DPS/State Controlled DPS debt, then gives no money for DPS 2.0 to start the new district. Yup, Charter's are in a bad spot. Incredulous.

[BankruptcyGuy]

No one is forcing kids into DPS. No, there isn't a monopoly. These points of yours are clouded by emotions and not reality.

If DPS provides special needs transportation then charter schools need to as well. Bottom line. You want competition? Let's make it fair.

Charter schools can get 14 years of direct oversight from Lansing. Then I'll ask you if it's extraordinary. My guess is you say yes.

This House bill pays off DPS/State Controlled DPS debt, then gives no money for DPS 2.0 to start the new district. Yup, Charter's are in a bad spot. Incredulous.

I guess we'll agree to disagree, then. When a student is from a family that has no resources for a car ride, or can't move to a nicer neigborhood, they are unquestionably forced into the DPS school where busing is provided.

So, if the issue of special ed kids needs to be resolved, you would simply mandate busing for charters. Heck, most special ed kids get Title I funds anyway, so that would pick up the cost. Funny that no one from the DFT has ever proposed that. Perhaps it's not really what the DFT is after.

ALL schools are subject to tons of state oversight. Ask any school administrator in any school in the district how much the state is involved.

There's no reason for a DPS 2.0. Parents are voting with their feet. Fix the educational product first, and then come to the taxpayers for more money. They'll have a $50MM operating surplus without debt payments. School districts across the state would love to have that "problem."

[Towne Cluber]

I recall back in the early 2000's when Grayling on State Fair was packed to the gills, had over a million bucks pumped into it's building, and about 4 years later it was vacant. With no warning, Grayling was razed and the entire block wiped clean just 3 years ago.

http://www.detroiturbex.com/content/...ing/index.html

Your assessment isn't accurate and your own link provides a timeline and facts to the contrary. That school and its surrounding neighborhood started dying well before the end of the State Fair, which is far from "without warning".

[detroitsgwenivere]

Your assessment isn't accurate and your own link provides a timeline and facts to the contrary. That school and its surrounding neighborhood started dying well before the end of the State Fair, which is far from "without warning".

The neighborhood didn't start dying before the school went down, it was the living fuckin dead [[as I have described here in vivid detail over the last 7 years). So bad in fact, girls were raped on their way to school there prompting Oprah to spotlight the area on her show, another horrific chapter in our school system's history. Yet the school still had well over 500 students in 2000. Standing for 80+ years, it suddenly loses half of its enrollment and stands empty in less than 4. A large yellow for sale sign was posted on the lawn for a few years and the structure then was absolutely salvageable. Then the sign was removed and the school left wide open.

Unless you have reading comprehension issues my assessment was pretty spot on, as was Swingline's, which was the point. Not sure what point you are making by trying to pick with my narrow recollection of one small piece of a huge mess.

Financially invested schools all over Detroit suffered the same fate with similar timelines, one of which sat in North Corktown and took several years for us residents to get torn down. Grayling was the one I had direct knowledge of. I should mention that children in my family attended Grayling and more than a dozen other public schools in the surrounding area. My Mother-in-law was a DPS special ed teacher on the eastside for decades.

[Towne Cluber]

...Unless you have reading comprehension issues my assessment was pretty spot on...

Translation: Hopefully no one actually clicks on the link and/or isn't familiar with the school.

[detroitsgwenivere]

Translation: Hopefully no one actually clicks on the link and/or isn't familiar with the school.

sigh... yeah, that's why I bothered posting it in the first place.

[DeLemur]

I guess we'll agree to disagree, then. When a student is from a family that has no resources for a car ride, or can't move to a nicer neigborhood, they are unquestionably forced into the DPS school where busing is provided.

So, if the issue of special ed kids needs to be resolved, you would simply mandate busing for charters. Heck, most special ed kids get Title I funds anyway, so that would pick up the cost. Funny that no one from the DFT has ever proposed that. Perhaps it's not really what the DFT is after.

ALL schools are subject to tons of state oversight. Ask any school administrator in any school in the district how much the state is involved.

There's no reason for a DPS 2.0. Parents are voting with their feet. Fix the educational product first, and then come to the taxpayers for more money. They'll have a $50MM operating surplus without debt payments. School districts across the state would love to have that "problem."

Yeah.

Hm. I wonder the condition of other districts. If DPS gets a full transitional funding and is zeroed out. Maybe it is an envious position.

Yeah problem is you can't run a district where half of the annual budget goes to debt interest payments. You have to pay if off first, if you're going to fix the educational "product."

[Hypestyles]

Detroit kids need help. Help the kids.

[Wesley Mouch]

I would agree with the Honorable Steven Rhodes that the DFT badly over played their hand at the worst possible time.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...kout/83993396/

DFT and most teacher's union monopolies only believe in radical action -- and believe that relentless fighting shows just how dedicated they are to children. I think they believe this deeply.

Compromise is valuable, but politically unpopular today. Just keep repeating that DPS is saddled with legacy costs, and that only they are required to educate those with disabilities, and that Charters harm children, and it'll all be OK.

[Wesley Mouch]

No one is forcing kids into DPS. No, there isn't a monopoly. These points of yours are clouded by emotions and not reality.

If DPS provides special needs transportation then charter schools need to as well. Bottom line. You want competition? Let's make it fair.

Charter schools can get 14 years of direct oversight from Lansing. Then I'll ask you if it's extraordinary. My guess is you say yes.

This House bill pays off DPS/State Controlled DPS debt, then gives no money for DPS 2.0 to start the new district. Yup, Charter's are in a bad spot. Incredulous.

DeLemur, why is DPS important to you?

Stepping back, I see a school district that was failing to adapt as times changed. State had to provide financial help and direction.

I think DPS has improved educationally, and that Charters are helping by providing new ideas.

There's a role for the state in education, but I don't see why it matters if others help.

[Dumpling]

I don't have the exact numbers of students emigrating from Detroit but probably
most of the public school districts in metro Detroit are benefiting from the influx
of state dollars that are going to them rather than Detroit. In general a district,
once it has a decline in enrollment, which can happen when home prices go up,
would rather take in some Detroit students, than close schools.
I do know that Dearborn Heights District Seven and a tech charter at Miller/Michigan
[[in their literature, conveniently on bus lines from Detroit) are actively recruiting
students in my area of Detroit.

[313WX]

in the event DPS is ultimately dissolved [[which I think is a non-zero possibility) and all of the students are given vouchers to attend suburban schools, which is what so many are begging their Republican representatives in Lansing to do, I can't wait to hear the cries from the same "SE Michigan" residents about the influx of "Detroiters" destroying their schools and people with property along bus routes whining about their customers being scared away or their property being vandalized.

[Dumpling]

At the low end of the teaching food chain - substitutes and newbies - teachers now
belong to the "gig" economy. This is probably particularly true within Detroit.

At the high end of the teaching food chain, a fortunate loved and wanted teacher
will have established a specific program of some kind together with trust and
rapport within the community. This is built up over several years, this doesn't
just happen like magic right when a substitute walks into a classroom - and not
only does the teacher have to stay put for several years, the community also
has to be a stable one for this to happen. [[I'm not even getting into Special
Ed/IEP student issues here.)

The pay is sufficiently bad at the low end to ensure that substitute teachers either
have a high end position right around the corner, or have already been teaching
for years at teacher union wages, and can live on their savings and retirement
income as well as the substitute supplement, or have family support, or work
at other jobs.

The free market is alive and well but I wouldn't expect teachers to like it at all.

[Wesley Mouch]

...I do know that Dearborn Heights District Seven and a tech charter at Miller/Michigan [[in their literature, conveniently on bus lines from Detroit) are actively recruiting students in my area of Detroit.

Its great to see that a [[mildly) suburban school district realizes that if they want to fund their district, they can successfully compete with DPS. The competition for DPS is not just charters. Its unionized districts too. Feed on the carcass. Creative destruction. DPS -- adapt or die.

[BankruptcyGuy]

No offense, but that's absolute nonsense. The state funding mechanism changed in 1994 with Proposal A. There was no substantial change when charters were authorized. What Detroit [[and all other districts) lost was their monopoly on public education. In rich areas, parochial schools were already an option. Detroit parents with kids in poor schools had none.

The analogy is this: McDonald's is making really crappy hamburgers, so the solution is that we should shut down Burger King and Wendy's, because then hamburger lovers will be forced to buy McDonald's, and somehow that will make the product better. It's absurd.

Some charters are better than DPS. Some are worse. When too many parents pull their kids out of a charter, it is forced to close down. When too many parents pull their kids out of DPS, it's the State's fault?

Apparently, Speaker Cotter reads DetroitYes.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...tter/84594570/

"“If Burger King is struggling to sell hamburgers, the answer is not to close down McDonald’s and Wendy’s,” Cotter said. “But rather, Burger King needs to raise their game. They need to improve the quality of the product they’re putting out there. ... We need to improve quality — and then the rest takes care of itself.”

p.s. I swear I am not Rep. Cotter.