East English Village

[Honky Tonk]

Nobody's rubbing your nose in anything but yourself. It's a free country for everyone, including honky tonk.

What?!?!?!?

[MrMichigan]

This thread went to shit...

Thanks to all who posted good information about the neighborhood. Looking forward to moving in.

[FormerDetroiter]

MrMichigan didn't you say you were already living in the house?

[ABetterDetroit]

Which is an ironic comment because you try and refute previously posted data with anecdote, and your link doesn't even have anything to do with the City of Detroit, it's a ranking of metros.

Hey you got a board famous hater on your side HT.

I'm not trying to "refute" anything in fact here is another:

http://www.cheatsheet.com/business/w...tml/?a=viewall

[ABetterDetroit]

Just because I know this stuff really chaps Bhams ass.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/zillow/2.../#3f81e24a3211

[Honky Tonk]

Hey you got a board famous hater on your side HT.

I'm not trying to "refute" anything in fact here is another:

http://www.cheatsheet.com/business/w...tml/?a=viewall

What?!?!?!?

[Honky Tonk]

Just because I know this stuff really chaps Bhams ass.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/zillow/2.../#3f81e24a3211

Well, you certainly know how to copy and paste things about Detroit on the internet, that's for sure. Tell me, with all this investment knowledge you've accumulated, why haven't you sold your house in Macomb and bought in Detroit? You don't want to miss the boat, do you? Or are you just a "consultant" for others?

[Baselinepunk]

Well, you certainly know how to copy and paste things about Detroit on the internet, that's for sure. Tell me, with all this investment knowledge you've accumulated, why haven't you sold your house in Macomb and bought in Detroit? You don't want to miss the boat, do you? Or are you just a "consultant" for others?

I'd like to play "Guess the Fallacy".

Let's go, folks!

How many do YOU see in this one???

[ABetterDetroit]

Well, you certainly know how to copy and paste things about Detroit on the internet, that's for sure. Tell me, with all this investment knowledge you've accumulated, why haven't you sold your house in Macomb and bought in Detroit? You don't want to miss the boat, do you? Or are you just a "consultant" for others?

The only thing I have ever remotely "consulted" anyone on this board who is buying a home in this state is strongly suggesting that that are fully aware of is this:

https://treas-secure.state.mi.us/pte...testimator.asp

By making a tax on rent the only available revenue generator for local communities that is collectible Lansing has deliberately picked the winners and losers and hoarded the lions share of tax revenue for themselves.

[DetBill]

LOL, no. Complete bullshit.

The only way a residential property doubles in value over a few months is if we're talking major upgrades, which obviously need to be factored in. Or the initial purchase price wasn't an arms length transaction.

Properties in MI have generally appreciated around 10%-20% over that time period, and no, it isn't highly variable based on location. There is no location in MI that is radically different than 24 months ago. You can't buy a house and flip it as-is, for twice the cost in 24 months, anywhere, unless the initial seller or end buyer are idiots.

Actually, many of the coops in Lafayette Park are seeing huge gains. A 4 bedroom Mies. Coop equity being gutted just sold for 489000, it would have fetched 275000 two years ago, the townhouses were selling for 150000 two years ago, now 250000 plus, many sold by the way. Many of the larger 1300 Lafayette co ops are up 60 % in the last two years. That is a fact, just look at recent sales and listings

[Cincinnati_Kid]

I don't think you do "get it" Homeownership has been the primary wealth building vehicle for Americans for a very long time. It is like you are telling him to not invest in stocks cause the company can fold. Of course there are risks with any investment, but if the potential for return are there then it still makes sense.

I bought my home in July and it was a benchmark for my neighborhood. One of the highest sales in 5 yrs easily. Now the home right down the street in worse shape than mine sold for 3% more about 6 months later. I agree that you should not view the city with rose colored glasses, but some people one here are acting like it is a bad investment by definition.

Getting tied down is a real concern, but quit acting like it is so likely that he will be forced to relocate soon due to changes in his circumstance. He is from the area and even if he gets a new job it will be easy to commute from. Gotta love the freeways...

Anyways I want to answer the OP's question

EEV is a nice area. It is also a fairly low income area but is very quickly being populated by more and more people who think like us. I bought int he area despite people telling me not to. It is working out great. I have had zero issues. I feel safe, nothing stolen, nothing broken. Packages delivered on my porch and left for hours remain waiting for me. Driving up Mack into GP is the best way to shop. Better selection, better prices. If you like pizza try Mama Rosa's.

I personally know 3 people who have purchased in your area. Myself I am a little more north in cornerstone village. I hang out at my friends who is in EEV. Nice area, but not high class. More and more people think like us and are purchasing homes there. We tend to be mid 20's, have good paying jobs, and commute to downtown. There are more and more people who are like us moving into the area. The negative Nancy's who post here and act like you are dumb left long ago during a different time or they never even lived here.

People talking about being tied down also probably have never had any substantial savings and assume most people buying a home are maxing their credit. However by home was roughly 60k when I bought it. I pay extra on the mortgage. I have it set up as if I am paying what my rent was downtown[[about 1k). This will pay my home off in 2021. When I bought my home it came in at 64k. The high sales price for my home was 150k in the early 2000's. I don't think it will ever get that high, but if it even climbs to 100k I will make out like a bandit. The total amount of interest spent will be about 8k. It was about 5k out of my pocket to buy it[[down payment, costs, ins). Even if I sell my home right when I pay it off and it sells for exactly what I paid for it, it will be a far superior use of my money compared to renting.

Keep spreading the good word OP and get your friends to buy in the area too. Better neighbors, better neighborhood. Better neighborhood, better values.

Don't just single out my post for your rebuttal. Look at the other posts above mine, that suggest the same opinion. Nobody is knocking home ownership, whatever floats your boat, but everyone doesn't want the responsibilities of one either. You can say people that don't own, are wasting their money, and that's fine too, it's your opinion. But this last downturn proved there are no guarantees you won't take a loss, owning one either. I own my home, but I'm not going tell someone they are wasting their money renting either. There are plenty of people that can afford a home, but choose not to. It's their choice, not mine.

[mwilbert]

Actually, many of the coops in Lafayette Park are seeing huge gains. A 4 bedroom Mies. Coop equity being gutted just sold for 489000, it would have fetched 275000 two years ago, the townhouses were selling for 150000 two years ago, now 250000 plus, many sold by the way. Many of the larger 1300 Lafayette co ops are up 60 % in the last two years. That is a fact, just look at recent sales and listings

You are of course correct. Two things that I think are true:

1) The Lafayette Park coops exist in a limited supply and at the moment the demand is high enough to have really caused the prices to rise rapidly over the past few years. At this point the prices on the Mies units really seem too high to me, but who can say what the market may bear? A lot of the units at 1300 seem a better value, but of course it is a very different feel.

2) The whole Detroit market is a patchwork. It isn't at all an efficient market, probably at least partly because of the relatively thin demand as a result of the difficulty in getting conventional financing, partly because there are also a still a lot of foreclosures out there, which seem to be somewhat detached from the rest of the market, and partly just because real estate isn't super-efficient in general. As a result, you get very unpredictable pricing in the city. In the the University District, which is the neighborhood I know best, you see very different prices for very similar houses within a very short distance of each other within a pretty homogeneous neighborhood.

So I don't think it is at all safe to generalize about how much a property purchased a few years ago may have appreciated. It seems to me there is a wide range of possibilities.

[DetBill]

You are of course correct. Two things that I think are true:

1) The Lafayette Park coops exist in a limited supply and at the moment the demand is high enough to have really caused the prices to rise rapidly over the past few years. At this point the prices on the Mies units really seem too high to me, but who can say what the market may bear? A lot of the units at 1300 seem a better value, but of course it is a very different feel.

2) The whole Detroit market is a patchwork. It isn't at all an efficient market, probably at least partly because of the relatively thin demand as a result of the difficulty in getting conventional financing, partly because there are also a still a lot of foreclosures out there, which seem to be somewhat detached from the rest of the market, and partly just because real estate isn't super-efficient in general. As a result, you get very unpredictable pricing in the city. In the the University District, which is the neighborhood I know best, you see very different prices for very similar houses within a very short distance of each other within a pretty homogeneous neighborhood.

So I don't think it is at all safe to generalize about how much a property purchased a few years ago may have appreciated. It seems to me there is a wide range of possibilities.

Yes, its pretty wild whats going on in Lafayette, just last week a 3bedroom Courthouse unit has been listed at 599,000. who knows what it will sell for. i remember I had a very hard time seliing my nicely renovated. 2 bedrom courthouse for 160000 in 2004, now it appears to be in the low 400s to high 300s.
All I really was responding to was the comment that no where in Detroit has property gone up significantly in two years, which is ofcourse incorrect as factually evidenced in Lafayette. The Mies, townhouses, which there are at least 140 I believe, are holding tight in the 220000 to 250000 and above range, which is unbelievable considering they were 15000 to 175000 two years ago. My 1300 unit has gone up 40 to 60 percent in the same time frame, however monthly fees are much higher,basically due to more amenities. It doesnt appear to be discouraging purchasers, many units are selling for very good prices quickly.

[mwilbert]

My 1300 unit has gone up 40 to 60 percent in the same time frame, however monthly fees are much higher,basically due to more amenities. It doesnt appear to be discouraging purchasers, many units are selling for very good prices quickly.

You probably know more about this than I do, but the high HOA fee on the 1300 units, which of course also includes the master mortgage, tends to make the the coop prices [[the "equity") act like a leveraged investment, and when Lafayette Park prices are rising, the prices of the 1300 units should on average be rising even faster. I don't think that they are, both because the Mies units have a special appeal, and because a couple of years ago there was a fairly large supply of 1300 units available. That is why I suspect the 1300 units are currently a better value--they haven't really kept up, even though the prices are up quite a bit. As area rents rise, the HOA fees don't look so bad and I would expect the prices in 1300 to benefit substantially.

[rex]

Cool old homes and a short hop to downtown but i suggest you buy a dog. Neighborhood may be tight knit with a watch program but its not especially safe. I've lived there.

[jonesy]

Welcome to the neighborhood. Be sure to join EEV on nextdoor.com. It's a great resource for all things EEV.

[ct_alum]

I bought in 2001 at $142k, now worth $70k if I'm lucky. Get a wireless alarm and cameras, Guardian has done o.k. by us. Land line alarms are useless; all they have to do is rip your wires out and they are in. Get to know the people in the neighborhood, break-ins are not random and are usually done by neighbors who get to know your routine and know when you won't be there.
Police response has gotten much better in the last year. BTW, all of the issues on my block are from houses that are rentals.

[Zacha341]

Yes, for sure you always want to get the 'wireless' style alarm system. Most you can track activity from your smart phone.

[Meliora]

OP, what's the verdict? Happy with your move?

[softailrider]

Cool old homes and a short hop to downtown but i suggest you buy a dog. Neighborhood may be tight knit with a watch program but its not especially safe. I've lived there.

A dog is probably a good idea but I wouldn't trust my safety or the safety of my family with a dog only. If somebody breaks into your house when your there I would suggest something that gives them a bigger suprise then something that barks.

[MrMichigan]

OP, what's the verdict? Happy with your move?

I move in next week so I'll let you guys know...

There aren't any renters on my block that I'm aware of, but I am getting a wireless alarm system right when I move in.

[MrMichigan]

I also have a colleague who will be looking at houses in EEV this weekend. Looks like the neighborhood is on the upswing.

[softailrider]

I move in next week so I'll let you guys know...

There aren't any renters on my block that I'm aware of, but I am getting a wireless alarm system right when I move in.

I would be surprised if that block is 100% homeowners with no rental houses.

[RageRoolz]

Don't just single out my post for your rebuttal. Look at the other posts above mine, that suggest the same opinion. Nobody is knocking home ownership, whatever floats your boat, but everyone doesn't want the responsibilities of one either. You can say people that don't own, are wasting their money, and that's fine too, it's your opinion. But this last downturn proved there are no guarantees you won't take a loss, owning one either. I own my home, but I'm not going tell someone they are wasting their money renting either. There are plenty of people that can afford a home, but choose not to. It's their choice, not mine.

I picked yours out because it summarized everyone else's uninformed opinion so well and because of this "risk" you keep talking about. My home losing equity [[imaginary) is less risky than my rent being unexpectedly raised and forcing me to relocate my life. Houses are easy. If you can afford the originally agreed upon payment you stay. Eventually you own it with obligation other than taxes. Buying a home doesn't make sense for everyone, I agree. However everyone in this thread was trying to act like buying a home in this neighborhood would be dumb and financially very risky. I happen to think the opposite is true. I live next to a renter who pays 1k a month to live in a home identical to mine. 5k out of pocket with a reasonable expectation for no major drop in value for something I can recoup my out of pocket in 5 months if I had to relocate? Adding on the benefits of potential appreciation it seems like a steal.

The area is nice. More good people are moving to the area. It is near by all the amenities you would want and crime is decreasing. If I had kids I wouldn't live her because of the schooling options, but for a young professional just starting their career in downtown its a near perfect location.

How many people speaking their opinion CURRENTLY LIVE in the area? I'm not trying to convince you that the morningside neighborhood is a place to move your young kids to here! EEV is getting better because people like MrMichigan are moving in and that trend will continue. To at least concede a point, I agree that it is unlikely that there are no rentals on your street haha

[Bham1982]

How many people speaking their opinion CURRENTLY LIVE in the area?

Those would be the least valuable comments. When you're a homeowner in a given area, you personal net worth is tied into the perceived viability of your neighborhood.

If someone wanted to know if Birmingham is a good or bad long term investment, I would be the last person to ask. Any answer is too biased by self-interest.