Hamtramck Muslims Rally: Call ISIS “murderers and thugs” “Islam’s biggest Enemy"

[Honky Tonk]

I am right in that the people doing those things don't represent all Muslims.

Yes, You are right. It's the masses standing watching and eating snacks that concern me.

[Wesley Mouch]

What I support is treating people as individuals. The most extreme form of any religion does not represent the whole religion. There are anti-gay and anti-woman Christians and Jews. They do not represent all members of those religions. So why do people assume all Muslims are extremists? They aren't.

I, confirmed libertarian who thinks the left is in denial on this, don't think that. And I don't know one single soul who does.

The idea that the right thinks 'all Muslims are extremists' is actually a left-wing political tool to divide us.

There are no doubt a lot of people who do believe this -- but they are not mainstream. Even my most conservative friends don't believe this generalization.

And its of course not true.

[Dan Wesson]

Yes, You are right. It's the masses standing watching and eating snacks that concern me.

Staying with that thought...

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/14/middle...-saudi-arabia/

[Zacha341]

Yep! Both sides are playing this game. And somewhere in all this drama and distraction is the truth.

The idea that the right thinks 'all Muslims are extremists' is actually a left-wing political tool to divide us.

[Hypestyles]

Adam Lanza and/or Ted Kazinski didn't do their evil in the name of their religion. Or claimed that their religion demanded it of them. Even the attack at the planned parenthood wasn't linked to radical christianity... there isn't an entire subsection of powerful christians, that have land, power, and money, telling people to go bomb abortion clinics.... but glad a couple dozen in hamtramck were able to put their fear aside and protest....

The militia movements and various survivalist outfits are very much about "God is Great"... This is where Timothy McVeigh found his miseducation. Beware of false prophets..

[Bobl]

"Religion is all bunk."
I am told that Thomas Edison said this. I do not know, as I was not there, but I certainly agree.

[Pam]

I, confirmed libertarian who thinks the left is in denial on this, don't think that. And I don't know one single soul who does.

The idea that the right thinks 'all Muslims are extremists' is actually a left-wing political tool to divide us.

There are no doubt a lot of people who do believe this -- but they are not mainstream. Even my most conservative friends don't believe this generalization.

And its of course not true.

I didn't say anything about right or left. There are islamaphobes on the left also.
Anybody that expects law abiding Muslims to constantly denounce ISIS _is_ assuming they are all extremists or sympathetic to extremists. What other explanation is there?

[Honky Tonk]

Staying with that thought...

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/14/middle...-saudi-arabia/

The canucks only sent 6 planes????? How cheap, eh!

[Cliffy]

I am right in that the people doing those things don't represent all Muslims.

How can you support a religion that is anti-women. You walk around Hamtramck and the poor women have to cover everything except their eyes. Really disappointed you think so poorly of Women.

[G-DDT]

"Religion is all bunk."
I am told that Thomas Edison said this. I do not know, as I was not there, but I certainly agree.

If it was Tommy, than he felt the same way about the dogs and elephants that he fried.

[davewindsor]

Also, If Trump had his way, a whole personality cult would follow his Presidential ascension. There is not a hint of diplomacy in what he offers, he speaks only to the cowardly, ungenerous side of people. That is how dictatorships appear.

BTW, there are Muslim American talk show hosts like Shafie Ayar that agree with what Donald Trump is saying with an interesting explanation why: ===> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F33n_rAXBHA

[canuck]

I didn't say anything about right or left. There are islamaphobes on the left also.
Anybody that expects law abiding Muslims to constantly denounce ISIS _is_ assuming they are all extremists or sympathetic to extremists. What other explanation is there?

I don't think Muslims should jump up and down at every event but I think this one in San Bernardino should have the leaders worried. Let's just say that it's important to set things straight at a time when Americans, Canadians and Europeans are nervous about important immigration from Irak and Syria, and the evolution of ISIS, Boko Haram, Al Kaida, and hundreds of splinter nutjob outfits everywhere.

Look it, remember when Iran had its revolution in 1979. All the women in black robes and those who didn't want to be a part of that craziness fucked off to the US, Canada, Australia, etc... Southern California alone has about a million Iranians I think. Iranians didn't start planting bombs but these times are a different ball game. The F.I.S. years in the Maghreb, and the Taliban movement in Afghanistan bloomed into Al Kaida and those Mafia type armies are resolutely intent on damaging anything that smacks of democracy and progressive thought.

Following the Paris attacks, I scanned the French media to find progressive voices in French Islam. I found anumber of people who have stated that Islam has to initiate a revolution that would promote gender equality and humanism that would merge with Western values. One of the main proponents is a guy called Ghaleb Bencheikh. He hosts a radio program in Paris on Islamic thought and religion. He calls for a complete shakeup of Islamic institutions in France, a more open minded leadership that would encourage followers to embrace the Arts, and not be servile to antiquated notions of evil in human expression. Bencheikh's father was a diplomat and a rector of the Great Paris Mosque, so his credentials are indisputably solid. He is also a Doctor of Science and Physics. There are others like him who want to steer Islam's course toward modernity and enable countries prone to dictatorship to eliminate hypocritical ideals of modesty and propriety that only apply to the poorer classes.

In that sense, France with a Muslim population of between 7 and 9 percent is poised to lead this revolution even though it is fraught with danger. Germany will soon accept 800,000 Syrians and Iraqis. It will also be at the forefront of this move toward modernity and so will England. Canada has a higher proportion of Muslims than the US, and I hope that here too, ordinary Muslims start a rewarding revolution that puts humanism before magic thought.

[Pam]

How can you support a religion that is anti-women. You walk around Hamtramck and the poor women have to cover everything except their eyes. Really disappointed you think so poorly of Women.

I don't "support" any religion. Guess what? There are Muslim feminists. The women don't need your fake concern. They are fighting to make changes themselves.

http://www.thenation.com/article/ris...mic-feminists/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malala_Yousafzai

Congrats to the women of Saudi Arabia who finally got to vote this month:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/12/world/...ote/index.html

[Scottathew]

How can you support a religion that is anti-women. You walk around Hamtramck and the poor women have to cover everything except their eyes. Really disappointed you think so poorly of Women.

Imagine this. In the imaginary world of 48307Land the women go naked. We can't believe that in the USA that women have to wear clothes! It's so degrading that women have to cover up their bodies. In 48307Land we even consider it to be some-what barbaric to force women to wear clothes!

[Richard]

Imagine this. In the imaginary world of 48307Land the women go naked. We can't believe that in the USA that women have to wear clothes! It's so degrading that women have to cover up their bodies. In 48307Land we even consider it to be some-what barbaric to force women to wear clothes!

How would you like the job working at a timeshare resort that caters to international tourists,working by the pool would be a pia after awhile having to remind the ladies that in this country,it is for the most part,required to wear the complete bathing suit.

I wonder if the women that wear a cover from head to toe are doing it without a second thought,just as the tourists that walk around mostly necked without a thought.

[canuck]

I don't "support" any religion. Guess what? There are Muslim feminists. The women don't need your fake concern. They are fighting to make changes themselves.

http://www.thenation.com/article/ris...mic-feminists/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malala_Yousafzai

Congrats to the women of Saudi Arabia who finally got to vote this month:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/12/world/...ote/index.html

Well Pam, damned if you do, damned if you don't right? According to you, it's a woman thing, no men should get involved in the liberating. According to me, men have everything to do with it, otherwise, these women would not have such odds to surmount. You seem to be taking anyone who questions these matters for a snake worshipping bubba. You don't have to be a hater to question behavior. There are plenty of folks on this forum who despise the ghetto package in Detroit, they will never reconcile to it, for all kinds of reasons, they fear the reduction of opportunities there are for folks in the city who suffer isolation. The violence, the complicity, the lack of ambition is a serious strain on Detroit.

On the other hand, you have folks here who question the suburban ideal of remoteness, disconnectedness, and sprawl. Detroit metro has many behaviors on trial, and the conflict is not unique to it but at the same time much more acutely felt in your city than almost anywhere else. I have witnessed and participated in debates here that are about the clash of cultures and it's all good. I believe it's worth taking a look at Islam in our countries and how it develops. Every environment changes the immigrant culture toward something that is the result of give and take with the host culture.

[G-DDT]

As one who is a Christian and does not support abortion I outright condemn any act of violence perpetrated [[especially those done at Planned Parenthood or abortion clinics-and yes, I do feel the recent attack in Colorado were anti-abortion motivated) in the name of an ideology. In fact, I feel anti-abortionism is not a scripturally prescribed Christian concern; it's something way down on priority, yet, it's seems to be a hobby horse [[one that eats up time, resources, creates publicity, and will never end in any form of resolve any time soon) for cowards [[the very cowards who weasel their way out of genuine ministry/charity efforts) who want it to overshadow direct scriptural injunctions that deserve emphasis [[after all, those same folks didn't really want Terry Schiavo to survive-that would've kept them from "taking back America"). Yes, there are many unknown Christians disgusted with the actions of the popular Evangelical Christian hypocrites out there, yet they get no spotlight, and their voices can't be heard over the noise of said hypocrites. The same can apply relatively to other groups.

Also, I should add that with the exception of a religious group or two, I have experienced charity from almost every faith reaching out to those on the outside. I've experienced charity from Muslims, Hindus, Catholics, Protestants, Athiests, Outlaws, Agnostics, and even Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons [[I also hear the Hare Krishna have bang-up good Vegetarian meals at a variety of areas around Hamtramck and Louisville).

It brings into question what is a religion, and what benefit it gives to the community? I just can't imagine Satanism [[that wishes to be deemed a religion-as do the Scientologists) engaging in genuine 501c3 acknowledged charity work.

[G-DDT]

Some folks did, indeed, make it an issue of anti-women activity in the Muslim faith. I don't see a lot of that here in professional-minded Dearborn. Yet, since we are holding up a value [[with stone in hand) to be espoused, let us ask the same of ourselves. It would be a real dog-nasty shame if we lived in a nation where we promised so much to women, that they can be anything they want and then betray that promise by paying them less than men, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsB1e-1BB4Yand it would also be even nastier-and I mean downright backwards-to have folks punish working women for being pregnant, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIhKAQX5izwespecially if any laws to protect them were shot down by our 41st leader many times in the past.

Yes, it would be a horrible shame if that were the case.

Idealistically, we would like to think, as a nation, that we are better than that type of backwards thinking we see in others.

[Pam]

Well Pam, damned if you do, damned if you don't right? According to you, it's a woman thing, no men should get involved in the liberating. According to me, men have everything to do with it, otherwise, these women would not have such odds to surmount. You seem to be taking anyone who questions these matters for a snake worshipping bubba. You don't have to be a hater to question behavior.
...

Snake worshipping bubba? Where did I ever say that? Bottom line- I think people should mind their own business. Let people of other cultures make their own decisions on how much change or adaptation they want to make. When does finger pointing and criticism by outsiders ever help anything? If they want your [[or Cliffy's) help they will ask for it. Somehow I don't think they will...

[Danny]

At last the Muslims of Hamtramckstan are fight back against ISIS. At least some of them.

[softailrider]

Snake worshipping bubba? Where did I ever say that? Bottom line- I think people should mind their own business. Let people of other cultures make their own decisions on how much change or adaptation they want to make. When does finger pointing and criticism by outsiders ever help anything? If they want your [[or Cliffy's) help they will ask for it. Somehow I don't think they will...

I totally agree about the minding your own business reference you made. That would have to include not entering this country on a visa and shooting up a holiday party 18 months later.

[Dan Wesson]

At last the Muslims of Hamtramckstan are fight back against ISIS. At least some of them.

Hamtramckstan...

When I left Hamtramck years ago it was Billed as "A touch of Europe in America".

A handle applied to the town during the reign of Mayor Robert Kozaren, peace be onto him, I have a bumper sticker that says so.

[oladub]

I would like to believe that Islam will evolve into being something like just another Protestant sect, like the Mormons, in the US and Europe despite indications to the contrary. Ghaleb Bencheikh, Muslims who raised $118,000 for the families of victims of the San Bernadino killings, "dozens" of Muslims opposing IS in Hamtramck, and various other statements and contributions by Muslims are a good thing, should be appreciated, and lauded. A small bridge is being built to meet the west from the other side but will it be enough and can the west afford to wait for this theoretical reform of Islam to take place? Sharia law and constitutional law are incompatible. The founder of Islam remains a terrorist warlord emulated by Muslim radicals. Those are tough nuts to crack. Meanwhile we hear more about Charlie Hedbo and the recent massacre in Paris while French police are confiscating stores of weapons in Paris mosques. While I never heard of Ghaleb Bencheikh but appreciate his efforts, I have heard a lot more about the rise of Islamic terrorism in France. So far, the rise of Islamic terrorism seems to be outstripping the growth of the Islamic modernity. Is it even possible for someone like Ghaleb Bencheikh to get ahead of the curve in France when France is being inundated with huge new waves of Muslim refugees?

[Wesley Mouch]

I would like to believe that Islam will evolve into being something like just another Protestant sect, like the Mormons, in the US and Europe despite indications to the contrary. Ghaleb Bencheikh, Muslims who raised $118,000 for the families of victims of the San Bernadino killings, "dozens" of Muslims opposing IS in Hamtramck, and various other statements and contributions by Muslims are a good thing, should be appreciated, and lauded. A small bridge is being built to meet the west from the other side but will it be enough and can the west afford to wait for this theoretical reform of Islam to take place? Sharia law and constitutional law are incompatible. The founder of Islam remains a terrorist warlord emulated by Muslim radicals. Those are tough nuts to crack. Meanwhile we hear more about Charlie Hedbo and the recent massacre in Paris while French police are confiscating stores of weapons in Paris mosques. While I never heard of Ghaleb Bencheikh but appreciate his efforts, I have heard a lot more about the rise of Islamic terrorism in France. So far, the rise of Islamic terrorism seems to be outstripping the growth of the Islamic modernity. Is it even possible for someone like Ghaleb Bencheikh to get ahead of the curve in France when France is being inundated with huge new waves of Muslim refugees?

A small bridge beats no bridge. A small bridge provides a forum. Shows that an alternative to hate exists. Shows that co-existence is possible.

Obama and Co is right that we should be careful to avoid painting all Muslims with a single brush. He's wrong by not acknowledging the scope of the problem -- hoping that it'll go away without much effort on his part. The right is wrong for thinking this problem is simple. And Trump is right in understanding that the public craves someone who tells them the truth rather than just playing politics. Unfortunately, he's not tell the truth either.

All of this very important for Detroit -- as one of the centers of Muslim population in the USA -- where we can agree that the world hasn't ended because of the call to prayer.

But at least there's a small bridge.

[canuck]

Obama and Co is right that we should be careful to avoid painting all Muslims with a single brush. He's wrong by not acknowledging the scope of the problem -- hoping that it'll go away without much effort on his part. The right is wrong for thinking this problem is simple.

Obama and co is not the best Art reference in this circumstance. Yes you can paint muslin with any width brush you have; it all depends on the size of your canvas.

Also, how can the right be wrong?