Hamtramck City Council Now Majority Muslim

[Wesley Mouch]

So you are equating radicals in the middle east to American citizens because they acknowledge the same religion? Got it, should I assume that the Westboro Baptist Church represents all Baptists. That's what your missing.

There are hundreds of millions of Mulsims worldwide. A small, small number are radicalized. the rest are typical people. I see you haven't acknowledged if you know any Muslims. If you did, you wouldn't be so quick to make such an ignorant, sweeping generalization.

Now, as for my 'murica comment, it is a generalization about the backwoods, ignorant, bigoted thinking Americans that assume all Muslims have some evil agenda. Funny you take offense to it. Do you fit into that category? So to speed up this conversion, I have a few questions:

1. Do you know any Muslims at a personal level [[not just saying hello in passing)? If so, are they different from others? If so, how?
2. Do you think that American Muslims are more prone to be radicalized or are a larger threat to Americans? If so, why?
3. Do you think the bastardized interpretation of the Muslim faith as espoused by the zealots/terrorists is representative of how all Muslims believe?
4. Do you know how many crimes are committed in the US by Muslims and should they be the big concern of the average American?
5. Do you believe that Dearborn is managed differently or is under any type of threat

You seek to prove that Islamophobia is a mistake. I agree. But I also believe that Islam has a problem. You disagree.

I am not saying that most Muslims are terrorists. And accusing me of same doesn't help a discussion. What I do see is that Islam has an intolerance problem that the west doesn't have. Its been a while since Baptists and Catholics have been at war. Sunni / Shia war and violence is a problem.

Answers:
1. I do not have personal-level Muslim friends. Next door neighbors and work colleagues.
2. I think American Muslims are MUCH LESS likely to be radicalized than those in the middle-east.
3. I believe most Muslims are peaceful and do not follow 'bastardized interpretations'.
4. I do not think crime in Muslim communities on others is an issue at all.
5. I know little about Dearborn's politics, and yes, I've been a personal friend with a Dearborn Arab -- who was Chaldean Catholic.

Your questions suggest that you think those you disagree with disagree with you. But we don't disagree with you. We need to be very tolerant of Islam. I have no problem at all with immigration -- in fact I'm highly in favor of increased immigration levels from the mid-east. Its enriched Detroit and will help Detroit being strong again. I'm not worried about terrorism from Muslims.

Yet I do think we need to be vigilant and pay attention. We do need to support those in the Muslim communities that have are well assimilated and are accepting progressive ideas within Islam. And we need to be critical where Islam is in trouble. And I believe Islam has problems. Its not a coincidence that Europe is being overwhelmed by immigrants from majority-Muslim areas. There are sufficient haters in Islam to be concerned about.

Your approach of unconditional love is as much as mistake as the opposing believe that all Muslims are terrorists. Do you think Islam has problems today, or is it all just a big mistake -- there's nothing to be seen here -- most along?

[Cliffy]

And for those of you who are wondering...

http://www.metrotimes.com/Blogs/arch...k-isnt-muslims

Its just an opinion piece. This guy is clueless. Go to France, Sweden, UK, etc.. in Europe and you will get a different tale of reality. The religious Muslims are a problem in western society.

[Richard]

Its just an opinion piece. This guy is clueless. Go to France, Sweden, UK, etc.. in Europe and you will get a different tale of reality. The religious Muslims are a problem in western society.

Until it effects one directly they will never get it,which is understandable.We will always remain a reactive country as a whole.

Nicely stated Wesley.

[RaumVogel]

I know it's a "Winger" web site,but there sure are some scary articles on Breitbart.com.

[Zacha341]

These times it's an advantage to check out multiple news venues. If the/ our 'sole' enemy is the 'wingers', I'd want to know what they too are thinking. Further, there's going to be more scaffolding between news sources, as what's being reported won't always be dismissible as just the Breitbart stuff. More people are figuring that one out.

I know it's a "Winger" web site,but there sure are some scary articles on Breitbart.com.

[canuck]

It's a clash of civilizations.

Paris just got hit by some nutjobs who shouted "God is Great", spraying bullets into innocent folk at cafés and a theater, a stadium in front of which I waited for a tramway two weeks ago.

These jihadis are having a field day destroying monuments and artworks in Syria and Sudan, disfiguring little girls for the crime of attending schools in Afghanistan, impose modesty on women before selling them into slavery. A nice program when you think about it.

I am just saying that those who think that Islam is innocuous, that the headscarf on women's heads is just a sign of respect for God that they should go down on their knees and pray Allah that what happened today doesn't happen to them. Liberals have a funny tendency of excusing the worst crimes while praising liberty.

I have a habit of excusing stupid shit too when dealing with culturally sensitive subjects.

There is little doubt in my mind though, that Islam, even in its more progressive iteration is incompatible with democratic thought.

[Cliffy]

You have to be some delusional hippie to think Islam is the religion of peace. The religion is not compatible with western culture. I don't care how friendly they are toward you, deep down inside they resent Americans drinking beer and women walking around with shorts on. If they could change the laws to Sharia, they would. The most backwards religion ever. Stuck in the stone age with a violent mentality.

[Wesley Mouch]

It's a clash of civilizations.

Paris just got hit by some nutjobs who shouted "God is Great", spraying bullets into innocent folk at cafés and a theater, a stadium in front of which I waited for a tramway two weeks ago.

These jihadis are having a field day destroying monuments and artworks in Syria and Sudan, disfiguring little girls for the crime of attending schools in Afghanistan, impose modesty on women before selling them into slavery. A nice program when you think about it.

I am just saying that those who think that Islam is innocuous, that the headscarf on women's heads is just a sign of respect for God that they should go down on their knees and pray Allah that what happened today doesn't happen to them. Liberals have a funny tendency of excusing the worst crimes while praising liberty.

I have a habit of excusing stupid shit too when dealing with culturally sensitive subjects.

There is little doubt in my mind though, that Islam, even in its more progressive iteration is incompatible with democratic thought.

In a rare appearance as the voice of moderation, I believe that Islam can deal with its radicals and fundamentalists. Christianity had similar challenges, and cooler heads have prevailed.

There is more criticism of jihadism now than in the past, but the low level of condemnation from within Islam speaks volumes. The leader of Islamic groups should be on television loudly condemning the Paris attacks -- now -- in unequivocal language. Perhaps they're afraid. Let's hope they're afraid. Because if they're not afraid, it means they agree in some measure with the attacks. And that, my friends, is something to fear.

Reread my first sense. I believe Islam can and will transition to peace. Nobody alive today will likely be around to see it unfortunately.

[G-DDT]

Despite the unrelenting Islamophobia that pervades on this thread, I see a far different picture currently here in Dearborn.

Also, there is an intricate distinction between "explaining" and "excusing". Any person with a slightest grasp of developmental psychology would not dismiss the attacks of a killer without looking into the causes first. You can analyze them and find some explanations for why, but noone is under any obligation to excuse the actions of these men. It's even more exceedingly virtuous [[as in the case of how the parishioners of the North Carolina church were towards Dylan Hood or those family members affected by the Amish West Nickel Mines Shooting) to forgive your assailant.

[Honky Tonk]

Despite the unrelenting Islamophobia that pervades on this thread,

Oh No, I don't want to be labeled an Islamophobic by some internet self appointed philosopher. Please, let me lay my head down on the chopping block for you. Ready? Cameras, action!

[Honky Tonk]

In a rare appearance as the voice of moderation, I believe that Islam can deal with its radicals and fundamentalists. Christianity had similar challenges, and cooler heads have prevailed.

There is more criticism of jihadism now than in the past, but the low level of condemnation from within Islam speaks volumes. The leader of Islamic groups should be on television loudly condemning the Paris attacks -- now -- in unequivocal language. Perhaps they're afraid. Let's hope they're afraid. Because if they're not afraid, it means they agree in some measure with the attacks. And that, my friends, is something to fear.

Reread my first sense. I believe Islam can and will transition to peace. Nobody alive today will likely be around to see it unfortunately.

Translation: "I'm shitting bricks, and I hope to God they stop before they get to me"

[canuck]

Despite the unrelenting Islamophobia that pervades on this thread, I see a far different picture currently here in Dearborn.

Also, there is an intricate distinction between "explaining" and "excusing". Any person with a slightest grasp of developmental psychology would not dismiss the attacks of a killer without looking into the causes first. You can analyze them and find some explanations for why, but noone is under any obligation to excuse the actions of these men. It's even more exceedingly virtuous [[as in the case of how the parishioners of the North Carolina church were towards Dylan Hood or those family members affected by the Amish West Nickel Mines Shooting) to forgive your assailant.

Yes, let's analyze the motivations of the killers in this case so we can pardon the error of their ways. A multiple psychiatric strategy to define what the 6 out of the seven who blew themselves up managed to cook up in their brains before ending so many people's lives.

Let's be charitable and invite their associates for dinner over a few ̶b̶e̶e̶r̶ and discuss this peacefully.

About the "Let's forgive" part of your opinion; don't just rush into it, OKAY?

[Cliffy]

Oh No, I don't want to be labeled an Islamophobic by some internet self appointed philosopher. Please, let me lay my head down on the chopping block for you. Ready? Cameras, action!

Its unbelievable that during the past week their was a suicide attack in Lebanon, a plane likely went down from a bomb in Egypt, and a massacre happened in Paris and people still don't see a trend. This is a religion where people eat Chickens after someone has yelled Allah Akbhar and then chops off the head of the animal. This is pretty fucked up and I consider myself liberal.

[RaumVogel]

Yes,last nights events in Paris will definitely add to the "unrelenting Islamophobia" in all related threads.

[canuck]

Its unbelievable that during the past week their was a suicide attack in Lebanon, a plane likely went down from a bomb in Egypt, and a massacre happened in Paris and people still don't see a trend. This is a religion where people eat Chickens after someone has yelled Allah Akbhar and then chops off the head of the animal. This is pretty fucked up and I consider myself liberal.

Yes, consider me liberal too. But like you, I find myself Islamophobic without much remorse. I am not comfortable thinking that women are still treated like chattel. I don't have much praise for those who defend a way of life that will keep their mothers wives and daughters walking one step behind.

I'm also Christianfundamentalistandothernutjobsectsphobic for the same reasons. The Mormon fundamentalists with the many wives. The same kind of deal goes down, scratch the surface and you will see some very ugly domination that is on par with cro-magnon worship.

[Cliffy]

Exactly. Why do "liberals" go wild over right wing Christians in this country over a Christmas tree display but defend a muslim to death if they want to take a driver's license picture with a sheet over their face so we can't see them. It makes no sense. Its amazing how many Muslim suicide bombings happen weekly in this world. Yeah, I'm Islamophobic. I don't want their stoneage beliefs in my country.

[canuck]

Exactly. Why do "liberals" go wild over right wing Christians in this country over a Christmas tree display but defend a muslim to death if they want to take a driver's license picture with a sheet over their face so we can't see them. It makes no sense. Its amazing how many Muslim suicide bombings happen weekly in this world. Yeah, I'm Islamophobic. I don't want their stoneage beliefs in my country.

Here is a story you may have heard about in the States about an Afghan family in Montreal and their demise. See how some folks just don't get the respect they deserve. The murderers were stereotyped into a guilty verdict. Their motives were misunderstood. We should repent for the sin of misuderstanding.

Modesty is appealing:

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...seek-new-trial

[Wesley Mouch]

Yes,last nights events in Paris will definitely add to the "unrelenting Islamophobia" in all related threads.

Raum, I am completely confused by your concerns over Islamophobia. Please explain. Why should we not fear Islam -- given that ISIL has accepted responsibility for a war crime in Paris. Sure, they may not represent the main stream thought of Islam -- but the Symbionese Liberation Army never controlled Palo Alto.

[RaumVogel]

Raum, I am completely confused by your concerns over Islamophobia. Please explain. Why should we not fear Islam -- given that ISIL has accepted responsibility for a war crime in Paris. Sure, they may not represent the main stream thought of Islam -- but the Symbionese Liberation Army never controlled Palo Alto.

When fanatics claim to speak for Islam,....and no one counters their BS.It makes all people involved in that ideology look bad.The general public needs to hear that Muslims in general condemn this kind of extremist behavior.

[Zacha341]

^^^ Well stated RV. That is the way of it as many aren't going to attempt the sift the wheat from the chaff. It's far too easy [[or serves an agenda) to group and judge the whole. We see that with partisan politics, likewise the broad-brushing upon Christians at large with regards to what fringe folks do claiming Christianity. Yet when you fear retaliation upon your family etc as we see within the Islamic community, I can see why in certain settings some are silent. However, more world Muslims are speaking out:

Muslims strongly condemn Paris terror attacks
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/w...acks/75772102/

What Muslims Are Saying About The Paris Attacks
http://muslimmatters.org/2015/11/14/...paris-attacks/

[RaumVogel]

^^^ Well stated RV. That is the way of it as many aren't going to attempt the sift the wheat from the chaff. It's far too easy [[or serves an agenda) to group and judge the whole. We see that with partisan politics, likewise the broad-brushing upon Christians at large with regards to what fringe folks do claiming Christianity. Yet when you fear retaliation upon your family etc as we see within the Islamic community, I can see why in certain settings some are silent. However, more world Muslims are speaking out:

Muslims strongly condemn Paris terror attacks
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/w...acks/75772102/

What Muslims Are Saying About The Paris Attacks
http://muslimmatters.org/2015/11/14/...paris-attacks/

Thank you for those links..."Terrorism has no faith" is a great way to put my feeling on this.
This kind of extremism is criminal....nothing more.

[Bham1982]

When fanatics claim to speak for Islam,....and no one counters their BS.It makes all people involved in that ideology look bad.The general public needs to hear that Muslims in general condemn this kind of extremist behavior.

But this isn't true. Radical Islam enjoys widespread support among Muslims. Perhaps not a majority, but most surveys indicate a large proportion, perhaps a plurality, support violent action against the West. Israel, in particular, is almost universally condemned.

Probably a somewhat less popular notion among U.S. Muslims, but not in Europe.

[G-DDT]

Also, many religious leaders [[including Muslims) held a service at St. Anne's with those "backwards" Christians to vocally oppose the recent actions committed by these men.

The question prevails: at which point do we let them win by punishing any and all of those around us? Fear that persists beyond concern will only destroy. If they want to inflict terror, we as a society must not allow it to take hold.

Already there was an incident where someone named "Sarah Beebe" posting a tweet wanting to wage war on Dearborn [[as if that hasn't happened enough with Terry Jones or that recent open-gun.Anti-Muslim loser group). This type of careless over-emotional reactionism is exactly how a Sikh man got killed after 9/11 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder...ir_Singh_Sodhi

[Cliffy]

Also, many religious leaders [[including Muslims) held a service at St. Anne's with those "backwards" Christians to vocally oppose the recent actions committed by these men.

The question prevails: at which point do we let them win by punishing any and all of those around us? Fear that persists beyond concern will only destroy. If they want to inflict terror, we as a society must not allow it to take hold.

Already there was an incident where someone named "Sarah Beebe" posting a tweet wanting to wage war on Dearborn [[as if that hasn't happened enough with Terry Jones or that recent open-gun.Anti-Muslim loser group). This type of careless over-emotional reactionism is exactly how a Sikh man got killed after 9/11 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder...ir_Singh_Sodhi

Only if you went to Europe and seen reality instead of riding your bike around Detroit asking about a Nike store...

[Dumpling]

There are two billion Christians in the world today. There are one billion Muslims
in the world today. There must be something valid in each faith for there to be so
many adherents in either one. The measure of a faith is when even nonadherents
are benefited by the faith.
To give a trivial example, practitioners of some faith may be required to perform
ablutions and keep clean generally. But as a consequence of this custom, the rate
of infections and illnesses is slowed down for all, not just the faithful.