Hamtramck City Council Now Majority Muslim

[Zacha341]

Well stated. Likewise there are factions and heresies within Christianity. Which does not render all 'zealots'. However, I'm hardly shocked that for some the choice of being a Christian by default defines 'zealotry'; which is a whole other argument.

Elements of Buddhism are forcing Rohingyan Muslims out of their homeland in Burma and making them stateless. Are we to be afraid of every Buddhist American?

What you're saying has some validity to it. ISIL is a force that needs to be dealt with, swiftly and frankly mercilessly, but unless you have proof that ISIL has infiltrated Hamtramck or Dearborn, it's complete paranoia and fear mongering. The same shit that made Japanese Americans go into internment camps.

[Zacha341]

Yes, we have to acknowledge the crucial distinctions that make the difference. Some don't. Yet, some go too far to avoid the fact that among the middle-east community there may be a percentage of those seeking our demise. It's happened before.

Yet, how do we live in peace with our neighbors if we're suspicious of everyone?

And yes the bigotry is a bit much. Including the bigotry applied to Christians.

You do realize the extremists don't represent all Muslims, right? I know that is a hard concept for your typical 'murican to follow.

Here is what I know my Muslim friends want to do: Work, take care of their family, improve their community, live decent lives and be left alone by the bigots that think ISIS is a representation of all Muslims.

The bigotry in this thread is sickening. You and the others should be ashamed of yourselves.

[jt1]

So we've established a number of bigots here believe that when is comes to the Muslim community in America [[aka American citizens) the premise is guilty until proven innocent.

Just appalling.

[Wesley Mouch]

You do realize the extremists don't represent all Muslims, right? I know that is a hard concept for your typical 'murican to follow.

Here is what I know my Muslim friends want to do: Work, take care of their family, improve their community, live decent lives and be left alone by the bigots that think ISIS is a representation of all Muslims.

The bigotry in this thread is sickening. You and the others should be ashamed of yourselves.

Funny that a post decrying generalizations about Muslims needed to generalize about 'muricans'.

There's an underlying issue at work here. And its one that us on the right don't understand. Why is it not acceptable to discuss the evil actions of Muslim radicals without being branded as Islamophobic.

You may choose to attack me as an 'Murican' --- or explain something to me. One of those choices is productive. The other, well, I'll generalize as close-minded.

So at the ISIS camp where US commandos liberated about 70 Kurds --- did you realize the Muslim Radicals told their captives that they were going to kill them after morning PRAYER. Me, I guess I'm a 'Murican' who thinks that line of thinking -- that God has sanctioned murder -- is something of which to be afraid. That doesn't mean I think all Muslims are murderers. Muslims have a problem with radicals who murder in the name of God. Christians have managed to marginalize this line of thinking and pretty much eliminated the radicals who felt they could slaughter Muslins in the name of God. Denying the problem with Islam isn't healthy -- its delusional.

[jt1]

Funny that a post decrying generalizations about Muslims needed to generalize about 'muricans'.

There's an underlying issue at work here. And its one that us on the right don't understand. Why is it not acceptable to discuss the evil actions of Muslim radicals without being branded as Islamophobic.

You may choose to attack me as an 'Murican' --- or explain something to me. One of those choices is productive. The other, well, I'll generalize as close-minded.

So at the ISIS camp where US commandos liberated about 70 Kurds --- did you realize the Muslim Radicals told their captives that they were going to kill them after morning PRAYER. Me, I guess I'm a 'Murican' who thinks that line of thinking -- that God has sanctioned murder -- is something of which to be afraid. That doesn't mean I think all Muslims are murderers. Muslims have a problem with radicals who murder in the name of God. Christians have managed to marginalize this line of thinking and pretty much eliminated the radicals who felt they could slaughter Muslins in the name of God. Denying the problem with Islam isn't healthy -- its delusional.

So you are equating radicals in the middle east to American citizens because they acknowledge the same religion? Got it, should I assume that the Westboro Baptist Church represents all Baptists. That's what your missing.

There are hundreds of millions of Mulsims worldwide. A small, small number are radicalized. the rest are typical people. I see you haven't acknowledged if you know any Muslims. If you did, you wouldn't be so quick to make such an ignorant, sweeping generalization.

Now, as for my 'murica comment, it is a generalization about the backwoods, ignorant, bigoted thinking Americans that assume all Muslims have some evil agenda. Funny you take offense to it. Do you fit into that category? So to speed up this conversion, I have a few questions:

1. Do you know any Muslims at a personal level [[not just saying hello in passing)? If so, are they different from others? If so, how?
2. Do you think that American Muslims are more prone to be radicalized or are a larger threat to Americans? If so, why?
3. Do you think the bastardized interpretation of the Muslim faith as espoused by the zealots/terrorists is representative of how all Muslims believe?
4. Do you know how many crimes are committed in the US by Muslims and should they be the big concern of the average American?
5. Do you believe that Dearborn is managed differently or is under any type of threat

[EastsideAl]

There's an underlying issue at work here. And its one that us on the right don't understand. Why is it not acceptable to discuss the evil actions of Muslim radicals without being branded as Islamophobic.

Because you're talking about the actions of Muslim radicals in the middle east in the context of the freaking city council of Hamtramck. About councilmembers and voters who are American citizens with, like it or not, the exact same rights as you or I. But, despite the fact that they were duly elected in a democratic election and are engaged in the usual small town council business of filling potholes, zoning ordinances, and issuing trivial proclamations, because they are also majority Muslim this council is somehow a scary problem for you that needs to be monitored [[by whom? the Department of Muslim Monitoring?) lest they turn into an arm of ISIL. This is pretty much the definition of racism, Islamophobia, or whatever you want to call it.

Since I'm half-Irish [[with family from the north, no less), should I have been monitored for potentially being in the IRA? I'm also half-German, am I a suspected Nazi?

Christians have managed to marginalize this line of thinking and pretty much eliminated the radicals who felt they could slaughter Muslims in the name of God.

Yes. Instead, since 2002, we've been slaughtering Muslims in someone else's name, by the thousands. Yours and mine and "Muricas.

[1953]

I worry about anyone who thinks a guy who lived 1,300 years ago flew his magic carpet to Heaven and returned [[as I likewise worry about anyone who thinks a guy who lived 2,000 years ago evaporated from his cave to Heaven, and then came back to say hi.

1953

[Wesley Mouch]

Because you're talking about the actions of Muslim radicals in the middle east in the context of the freaking city council of Hamtramck. And councilmembers and voters who are American citizens with, like it or not, the exact same rights as you or I. But, despite the fact that they were duly elected in a democratic election and are engaged in the usual small town council business of filling potholes, zoning ordinances, and issuing trivial proclamations, but because they are also majority Muslim this council is somehow a scary problem for you that needs to be monitored [[by whom? the Department of Muslim Monitoring?) lest they turn into an arm of ISIL. This is pretty much the definition of racism, Islamophobia, or whatever you want to call it.

Since I'm half-Irish [[with family from the north, no less), should I have been monitored for potentially being in the IRA? I'm also half-German, am I a suspected Nazi?

Yes. Instead, since 2002, we've been slaughtering Muslims in someone else's name, by the thousands. Yours and mine and "Muricas.

America has indeed killed. Slaughtered if you wish to be pejorative. War is a messy business. We just killed 30 doctors [[MSF) and destroyed their hospital it seems. We killed members of Bin Laden's family too. Many others too -- although I think counting Iraqi civilians killed during the war as a little misleading.

The US and friends have made mistakes for sure, and many on Bush's watch to be sure -- but overall -- the efforts of the US are something of which I think we can and should be proud. It may yet be that in the end, Libya & Syria will become even larger messes. Yet we shoudn't ignore just how brutal and evil and murderous their dictators were. I guess that makes me proud to be a 'Murican' [[with a capital 'M' please).

Your guilt over America's actions is misplaced, and if I may suggest a little simplistic. But back to the thread....

I think its reasonable for people to wonder about how Muslims in the US will take to power. I hope it'll be the non-event you predict. But given the problems of Islamic civil society in some areas -- it is cause for concern and even fear. To discount reasonable fears is disrespectful. To suggest that its Islamophobia is hysterical.

[Honky Tonk]

Yes. Instead, since 2002, we've been slaughtering Muslims in someone else's name, by the thousands. Yours and mine and "Muricas.

Why don't you don your hijab and head over? I'm sure there's a place for you in an ISIS beheading video. Take jt1 with you. Two heads are better than one.

[jt1]

Why don't you don your hijab and head over? I'm sure there's a place for you in an ISIS beheading video. Take jt1 with you. Two heads are better than one.

My apologies if sticking up for democratically elected Americans bothers you so much. Let's grab our pitchforks and go get them dirty 'Moslems'

but feel free to explain how the actions of radicals in the middle east represent Americans in Hamtramck [[or feel free to STFU)

[Zacha341]

Ok, here's the thing IMO, mixing cultures and races is never going to result in a perfect 'utopia', forced or otherwise. Conflict is part of the melting pot. What's worse, the person or groups forced to censor their prejudices left unaddressed, becomes far worse: putting on a smiling face, pretending and posing.

Dialogue's basically over when it boils down to casting about too easily terms such as islamophobic, racist, homophobe, etc.

[Richard]

My apologies if sticking up for democratically elected Americans bothers you so much. Let's grab our pitchforks and go get them dirty 'Moslems'

but feel free to explain how the actions of radicals in the middle east represent Americans in Hamtramck [[or feel free to STFU)

3,106 killed by Muslims in America in 75 terror attacks sense 1972 you want to tell the families of those fellow Americans to STFU ?

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/AmericanAttacks.htm

There are 150 per day killed by terrorist attacks as of 2012 with a total of over 20,000 and climbing,many of those are Americans and they gave the sacrifice so we can have this discussion,should we have also told their families to STFU?

I live in a mixed middle Eastern city,the ones that do speak will have no problem telling you to your face how fucked up Americans are in their eyes,a bunch of stupid drunks that sit around and get stoned were the exact words.And that was from a female Muslim business owner.

I told her it was hard to judge all Americans because she was basing it on her interaction with the clientele that a hood C-Store brings,she said no all Americans are that way.

As far as the rest I could not say because they stay in their click and do not particularly like anybody else to associate with them.

The guys that flew the planes were no different in their reactions,they were just 2 taking flight lessons and you would have never thought,so the same could be said.

So should we judge those in Hamtown because of their fellow Muslim actions? I would not judge but I sure would not sit back and say do not worry,if that aspect upsets others,tough cookies because as long as their fellow Muslims continue to kill Americans on this soil and across the world then they are going to have to deal with it,because apparently they left in order not to deal with it so we now have to.

[jt1]

3,106 killed by Muslims in America in 75 terror attacks sense 1972 you want to tell the families of those fellow Americans to STFU ?

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/AmericanAttacks.htm

There are 150 per day killed by terrorist attacks as of 2012 with a total of over 20,000 and climbing,many of those are Americans and they gave the sacrifice so we can have this discussion,should we have also told their families to STFU?

I live in a mixed middle Eastern city,the ones that do speak will have no problem telling you to your face how fucked up Americans are in their eyes,a bunch of stupid drunks that sit around and get stoned were the exact words.And that was from a female Muslim business owner.

I told her it was hard to judge all Americans because she was basing it on her interaction with the clientele that a hood C-Store brings,she said no all Americans are that way.

As far as the rest I could not say because they stay in their click and do not particularly like anybody else to associate with them.

The guys that flew the planes were no different in their reactions,they were just 2 taking flight lessons and you would have never thought,so the same could be said.

So should we judge those in Hamtown because of their fellow Muslim actions? I would not judge but I sure would not sit back and say do not worry,if that aspect upsets others,tough cookies because as long as their fellow Muslims continue to kill Americans on this soil and across the world then they are going to have to deal with it,because apparently they left in order not to deal with it so we now have to.

Where did you infer I was telling victims of terrorists to STFU? Your reading comprehension is sorely lacking. The only common thing between the council members and the the terrorist is that they are Muslim, so the council members should not be judged on the worst of the worst of a specific religion.

You are willing to be suspect of these people because of the actions of others?

Also, you cite 3,106 deaths since 1975. 9/11 accounted for 2,977 deaths so there have been 129 deaths due to terrorism since 1975 that were not 9/11? If so, you are willing to be suspicious of an entire group of American citizens due to this.

Using numbers to justify your bigotry doesn't make you any less of a bigot.
Americans kill more American citizens due to gun violence than any other country in the world. Should I automatically be suspicious of any American that owns a gun? Statistically, they are a hell of a lot more of a threat to me than the Hamtramck city council.

Feel free to continue justifying your bigotry

[jt1]

Also, citing http://www.thereligionofpeace.com as a source is not the best way to go. You do know about the organization that maintains that site, correct?

[Richard]

Where did you infer I was telling victims of terrorists to STFU? Your reading comprehension is sorely lacking. The only common thing between the council members and the the terrorist is that they are Muslim, so the council members should not be judged on the worst of the worst of a specific religion.

You are willing to be suspect of these people because of the actions of others?

Also, you cite 3,106 deaths since 1975. 9/11 accounted for 2,977 deaths so there have been 129 deaths due to terrorism since 1975 that were not 9/11? If so, you are willing to be suspicious of an entire group of American citizens due to this.

Using numbers to justify your bigotry doesn't make you any less of a bigot.
Americans kill more American citizens due to gun violence than any other country in the world. Should I automatically be suspicious of any American that owns a gun? Statistically, they are a hell of a lot more of a threat to me than the Hamtramck city council.

Feel free to continue justifying your bigotry

You may be a bit confused because it does not bother me if you call me a bigot,because if there is a religious faction that is killing Americans then there are bigger problems then calling one a bigot.

As far as the link it becomes irrelevant who or what posts it because it is based on facts that are posted and easily backed up by death records.

I am a Lutheran if a Catholic came up to me and said hey you got problems with a faction in your religion that is killing fellow Americans based on faith then I would not care what religion they were,I would be along side of them doing what it took for a resolution.Not running to another country where the problem would be following me.

[jt1]

You may be a bit confused because it does not bother me if you call me a bigot,because if there is a religious faction that is killing Americans then there are bigger problems then calling one a bigot.

As far as the link it becomes irrelevant who or what posts it because it is based on facts that are posted and easily backed up by death records.

I am a Lutheran if a Catholic came up to me and said hey you got problems with a faction in your religion that is killing fellow Americans based on faith then I would not care what religion they were,I would be along side of them doing what it took for a resolution.Not running to another country where the problem would be following me.

So I assume you are native american as your ancestors must not have come here for a better life [[since you condemning the Muslim population here for doing that)

[EastsideAl]

Why don't you don your hijab and head over? I'm sure there's a place for you in an ISIS beheading video. Take jt1 with you. Two heads are better than one.

Nah, I think I'll just head on up to Hamtramck for some of that deeelicious Bengali food. Never seen a beheading there, just smiling faces and good grub.

[Richard]

So I assume you are native american as your ancestors must not have come here for a better life [[since you condemning the Muslim population here for doing that)

The difference is my ancestors did not come here with a bomb strapped to their back or fly planes into buildings and neither did all the other immigrants.

Granted they were probably no angels,threw some tea in the harbor,married some guy that rode around robbing banks,pretty much fought in every war this country has seen but I guess they just did not feel the need go around blowing people and places up in the name of their religion.

[dtowncitylover]

The difference is my ancestors did not come here with a bomb strapped to their back or fly planes into buildings and neither did all the other immigrants.

Uhhh what?

Show me proof that all immigrants to the USA who are Muslim are entrenched into a conspiracy to overthrow the US and turn it into a caliphate.

Oh wait, you can't.

[Richard]

Uhhh what?

Show me proof that all immigrants to the USA who are Muslim are entrenched into a conspiracy to overthrow the US and turn it into a caliphate.

Oh wait, you can't.

Of course I cannot,just as you cannot bet your life on the fact that every Muslim in the country has this countries best interest at heart.

If you can personally guarantee and take accountability for their future actions against Americans then I will retire my newly labeled Bigot status.

Would you be willing to do that? Is it a deal?

I never have said every Muslim,but the reality is if you belong to a religious group that has a faction that likes to kill Americans on American soil and beyond,and you move to America you really have to kinda expect some backlash or some hesitation with acceptance.

[EastsideAl]

The difference is my ancestors did not come here with a bomb strapped to their back or fly planes into buildings and neither did all the other immigrants.

Granted they were probably no angels,threw some tea in the harbor,married some guy that rode around robbing banks,pretty much fought in every war this country has seen but I guess they just did not feel the need go around blowing people and places up in the name of their religion.

Ummmm... you do realize that the Sept. 11 2001 hijackers were from overseas, right? None of them were immigrants. In fact, 15 of the 19 were citizens of Saudi Arabia, a country from which there have historically been very few immigrants to the U.S. [[but it is our government's biggest ally in the region).

Why do I bother?

[Richard]

Ummmm... you do realize that the Sept. 11 2001 hijackers were from overseas, right? None of them were immigrants. In fact, 15 of the 19 were citizens of Saudi Arabia, a country from which there have historically been very few immigrants to the U.S. [[but it is our government's biggest ally in the region).

Why do I bother?

One was here on a student visa and the rest tourist or business visas,they were all of Muslim faith so if they actually became residents then they would not have carried out the attack?

Attacks on this soil have been carried out by Muslim resident immigrants.I would think at that point ones legal status becomes a non issue.

[southen]

Can we end this stupid thread. If a Hamtramck council member goes on to attack America we can absolutely pick it back up but this is getting ridiculous. The Metro Times mentioned DY in a recent article because of the ignorance being spouted here. Enough is enough.

[detroitsgwenivere]

Can we end this stupid thread. If a Hamtramck council member goes on to attack America we can absolutely pick it back up but this is getting ridiculous. The Metro Times mentioned DY in a recent article because of the ignorance being spouted here. Enough is enough.

I've gotta say this. I cant believe that MetroTimes blogger ran with that. I cited nothing and named no one in my post [[so it's not even technically credible) and this is only because I was on the job at the time that discussion took place. All anyone has to do is go and listen to the politicians and their hacks speak for themselves. People act like there aren't open meetings for anyone to attend and that politicians aren't approachable or outspoken most of the time. Of course, now that people are starting to take more notice I'm sure there will be some toning down of the more colorful rhetoric.

Christians and their prevalence of prohibition and nonsense continue to be thrown into this mix, like as if everyone doesn't already know this shit. When the thread about crazy Christians in our midst gets started then there will be plenty of fodder for all, bet on that.

For the record, since we're now prompting the Metrotimes to write about us, never was it said by me or anyone else on this thread that only Muslims took this position regarding banning alcohol [[I said "same ilk.") That ilk being the type to restrict people's rights. I believe that taking away the rights of our citizens is extreme. Keeping an eye on people who want to restrict citizens rights is, IMO, very reasonable. Last time I checked we all have the right to our opinions, and as long as we aren't making threats and name calling, who is to say that that our fears shouldn't be discussed legitimately, that this type of discussion should be restricted. The same goes for the Muslims of Hamtramck and their concerns. I thought that was the point of this forum.

There are prejudiced assholes everywhere and no color or creed carries the torch on this. Our country, this region has a long history and lasting culture of racism that we continue to struggle with. Not talking openly only serves to prolong the arduous process of realization and forgiveness necessary to get us past this point. I sure as shit am not about to let anyone, including Mike Jackman, silence my attempts to speak or learn about the points of view from others in their responses. Even the ones seeped in ignorance.

[detroitsgwenivere]

And for those of you who are wondering...

http://www.metrotimes.com/Blogs/arch...k-isnt-muslims