Two-Thirds of Detroit Students 'Chronically Absent'

[jmarie]

I wonder what the break down is per grade. I would imagine that high schools are responsible for most of that.

You would be quite surprised. I quit teaching after a decade this spring. While I never taught in Detroit, I did teach in Flint for a brief period. I taught elementary and I've had kids miss 40, 50, 60 days in a year. I spent half of my career in a different state and there they retained anyone missing over 20 days without proper medical documentation, although my principal waived it sometimes. I wish they would do that here. At my last school, about 1/3 of my students had truancy cases filed.
And there are kids of all ages, including kindergarten, that don't care and make classrooms very difficult to manage.

[Dan Wesson]

These kids and parents see no future. They are happy or used to the situation.

Action speaks louder than words.

Cut off their sustenance and you will see change.

Whether society can manage that change is another can of worms.

Freedom is another word for nothing left to lose.

[Bham1982]

As long as Chicago and Illinois are able to maintain a wealthy and stable tax base [[which they should in the foreseeable future), their debt obligations are very much manageable.

Tell that to the ratings agencies.

Illinois has, by far, the worst credit rating of any state. Their economy is performing very poorly. They have the worst population loss in the U.S. They have the worst financial situation in the U.S. They have the heaviest unfunded pension burden in the U.S.

Their debt obligations are totally unmanageable unless you had massive, catastrophic tax increases, which would further increase the outflow of people and wealth out of the Illinois. And the state legislature is at war with the governor, with no resolution in sight. That's why Illinois has such a poor credit rating.

At least they aren't stooping as low as allowing basic infrastructure such as their roads and sewerage systems to fall apart unlike some of their neighboring to create the illusion of fiscal stability.

Illinois is so broke they can't even pay lottery winners anymore. They claim that state pensioners won't get paid starting this month. That state is basically America's Greece.

[Mzsuzuki]

All kids can learn.

DPS will burn a new teacher out if they can't find a good work/life balance. Unfortunately with programs like Teach for America, we are discouraging a lot of young people from entering the teaching profession.

All kids can learn.

When you have to take care of your siblings because your parents work 80-100 hours per week. [[Most employers only provide 3-5 sick days per year if that many).....sometimes you miss school. If a child is caring for a sick parent without any additional help from other family members ....sometimes you miss school. There has been an increase in diseases like asthma...and the kids have a poor diet....sometimes you miss school. When the bus is late, or overcrowded...or the weather is shitty and you take the bus....sometimes you miss school.

However, All kids can learn.

When kids get off the bus on streets without lights or stand at bus stops in front of abandoned buildings and houses....sometimes you miss school.

I will say that All kids can learn and once they settle down, calm their thoughts, anxiety....they learn quite well. No child doesn't want to learn....they are always learning....either consciously or subconsciously!

[Richard]

PBS did a documentary in Philadelphia 6 out of 100 graduating teachers found work in the teaching field,not sure there is a shortage.

When I was in school from K to the 7th grade I never missed one day of school,it was simple if I missed the bus through my fault I was walking the 5 miles to school,if I ended up having summer school,no bike or bus you walked back and forth

Sass the teacher you got a smack on the hand with a ruler,or sent to the principals office for the paddle,big board with holes drilled through it,then when you got home.... well .. you just learned real quick not to disrespect the teacher.That was public school.

I was going through my neighborhood on Saturday,young boy in diapers only with his 5 year old brother out in the middle of the street where nobody seems to know the meaning of a stop sign or speed limit,because I actually had to stop and wait for them to get out of the road I asked them where their parents were,the 5 year old told me to mind my own m fing own business.

It is not only in Detroit it is everywhere,holding the parents accountable legally seems to work with a small percentage.

I would not be sure if there is a answer to this and would hate to be the one tasked to find it because it would be a no win situation either from the parents or the students,it seems at best if one can reach out to the 20% that are willing the that is 20% per year increase,or small steps over a long term.

It seems as if one did a two tier school system and separated those who want to learn from those who do not,you would end up with one system that would mimic a reform school with a high teacher burn out rate,there is no easy answer.

[Shai_Hulud]

You would be quite surprised. I quit teaching after a decade this spring. While I never taught in Detroit, I did teach in Flint for a brief period. I taught elementary and I've had kids miss 40, 50, 60 days in a year. I spent half of my career in a different state and there they retained anyone missing over 20 days without proper medical documentation, although my principal waived it sometimes. I wish they would do that here. At my last school, about 1/3 of my students had truancy cases filed.
And there are kids of all ages, including kindergarten, that don't care and make classrooms very difficult to manage.

Well, if young children are missing lots of school it makes sense to target the parents either punitively or to provide resources to them. By the time they get to high school, I don't know how effective that would be.

However, I was amazed at how toothless some of the administrators at DPS were. Once the student and the parent make it clear they have no interest in success why continue to put up with a chronically misbehaving student in a high school?
Do the paper work to expel them so that you can focus your meager resources on the students who want to learn. Didn't happen.

[canuck]

Well, if young children are missing lots of school it makes sense to target the parents either punitively or to provide resources to them. By the time they get to high school, I don't know how effective that would be.

However, I was amazed at how toothless some of the administrators at DPS were. Once the student and the parent make it clear they have no interest in success why continue to put up with a chronically misbehaving student in a high school?
Do the paper work to expel them so that you can focus your meager resources on the students who want to learn. Didn't happen.

It makes sense to punish the parents or children only if you use the same dumb models that have proved damaging to everybody in its passage. Of course, if the available models of success in a ghetto circumstance have been Hollywood driven as much as neighborhood processed, then yes, you are fucked. The more exclusionary the measures, the surefire result will be self destructive.
I think that extraordinary measures to promote inclusiveness is what will work, nothing else. That said, I am not a teacher or principal, and I admire those who do their best at it, I can't imagine doing their job in the best of environments.

[Richard]

Well, if young children are missing lots of school it makes sense to target the parents either punitively or to provide resources to them. By the time they get to high school, I don't know how effective that would be.

However, I was amazed at how toothless some of the administrators at DPS were. Once the student and the parent make it clear they have no interest in success why continue to put up with a chronically misbehaving student in a high school?
Do the paper work to expel them so that you can focus your meager resources on the students who want to learn. Didn't happen.

On one hand I agree,but then if one takes a survey that gives everybody a choice if they wish to be in school or not,not many would show up.

Then you also have the expelled ones that are roaming the streets all day with no supervision, with probably not good results.

So they kinda need a forced day care of sorts.

Maybe within the school separate the rowdy ones and put them in separate classes away from the rest.

Through out time there has always been an uneducated aspect of the population,they ended up working low wage jobs and only if they wanted to get further ahead they had to work twice as hard.The push for the minimum wage of $15 per hour long term to me kinda kills the incentive.

$15 per hour with government subsidizes kinda gives one $25 per hour flipping hamburgers,what does one need school for?

[Towne Cluber]

All kids can learn.

DPS will burn a new teacher out if they can't find a good work/life balance. Unfortunately with programs like Teach for America, we are discouraging a lot of young people from entering the teaching profession.

All kids can learn.

When you have to take care of your siblings because your parents work 80-100 hours per week. [[Most employers only provide 3-5 sick days per year if that many).....sometimes you miss school. If a child is caring for a sick parent without any additional help from other family members ....sometimes you miss school. There has been an increase in diseases like asthma...and the kids have a poor diet....sometimes you miss school. When the bus is late, or overcrowded...or the weather is shitty and you take the bus....sometimes you miss school.

However, All kids can learn.

When kids get off the bus on streets without lights or stand at bus stops in front of abandoned buildings and houses....sometimes you miss school.

I will say that All kids can learn and once they settle down, calm their thoughts, anxiety....they learn quite well. No child doesn't want to learn....they are always learning....either consciously or subconsciously!

1. I've coached at a DPS school and when I ask students why they skip school, the answers were not any of the ones that you've provided here. Unfortunately, the reasons were watching tv, talking on the phone with girls, hanging out, and sleeping.

2. TFA teachers were among the hardest working and smartest teachers that I've seen in Detroit.

[canuck]

1. I've coached at a DPS school and when I ask students why they skip school, the answers were not any of the ones that you've provided here. Unfortunately, the reasons were watching tv, talking on the phone with girls, hanging out, and sleeping.

2. TFA teachers were among the hardest working and smartest teachers that I've seen in Detroit.

What would make a difference?

[Towne Cluber]

What would make a difference?

A complete change of cultural norms and standards in the community.

[coracle]

And we're having to pay an extra $71 million a year for ten years to only cover the repayments of the debts that this apparently crap system has run up, on top of the costs to run it to not achieve results. Somebody[[s) needs their ass[[es) kicking - and it ain't the taxpayers. Is it the State, the City, the Unions, the Teachers, the end users or a combination? We don't seem to encounter this problem elsewhere in the State! That $710 million could be spent on our infra structure and we wouldn't have to raise taxes so much, and have something to show for it.

[Mzsuzuki]

I understand what you are saying Richard and if I could rewind the hands of the clock " turn back the hands of time" I definitely would . We can't compare your generation to this generation....

Anyone from your generation get dragged from the bus stop to the alley in plain daylight?

Believe me I was raised by no excuses"single parent...HOWEVER I didn't have to raise myself. We are expecting a lot in regards to maturity from pre-teens and or teenagers. Some are raising themselves and their siblings. Trial and Error is the name of the game...when you have to raise yourself on a full time or part time basis.

100 percent attendance probably not going to happen.....

Parents are working more hours[[3-5 sick days, no health care) poor diet, no exercise [[thank goodness for the slow roll), counselors, social workers, school psychologists assigned 100 or more students, increase in ACE - adverse childhood experiences...I am sure that the school files for those who are chronically absent are as large as the dictionary.

Yet instead of being proactive, we always want to implement reactive strategies.....

too badthe effective proactive strategies are not economically feasible.....in a data driven world...data matters...lol

[Mzsuzuki]

- Towne Cluber - I am not going to argue or negate your experiences.....because that is your truth based upon your experiences.

I have met met some hard working teach for America [[2-5 years experience) teachers and I KNOW some hard working educators with over 20 years worth of experience. I never heard them utter the words " children don't want to learn". Their stories will never make the papers.

My examples might not apply to ALL students....but a good chunk. ...surely you knew that. .. Let's not just portray the chronically absent DPS students as just not one type. They are not monolithic......

[Towne Cluber]

- Towne Cluber - I am not going to argue or negate your experiences.....because that is your truth based upon your experiences.

I have met met some hard working teach for America [[2-5 years experience) teachers and I KNOW some hard working educators with over 20 years worth of experience. I never heard them utter the words " children don't want to learn". Their stories will never make the papers.

My examples might not apply to ALL students....but a good chunk. ...surely you knew that. .. Let's not just portray the chronically absent DPS students as just not one type. They are not monolithic......

My response was to your original portrayals. Surely you knew that as well.

[Richard]

I understand what you are saying Richard and if I could rewind the hands of the clock " turn back the hands of time" I definitely would . We can't compare your generation to this generation....

Anyone from your generation get dragged from the bus stop to the alley in plain daylight?

Believe me I was raised by no excuses"single parent...HOWEVER I didn't have to raise myself. We are expecting a lot in regards to maturity from pre-teens and or teenagers. Some are raising themselves and their siblings. Trial and Error is the name of the game...when you have to raise yourself on a full time or part time basis.

100 percent attendance probably not going to happen.....

Parents are working more hours[[3-5 sick days, no health care) poor diet, no exercise [[thank goodness for the slow roll), counselors, social workers, school psychologists assigned 100 or more students, increase in ACE - adverse childhood experiences...I am sure that the school files for those who are chronically absent are as large as the dictionary.

Yet instead of being proactive, we always want to implement reactive strategies.....

too badthe effective proactive strategies are not economically feasible.....in a data driven world...data matters...lol

Meh,kids have it easy these days,try walking to school 6 miles uphill in the middle of winter with no shoes.

I really could not say if it was any dangerous back then verses today,the difference is now when a child falls in a well,within 5 minutes the world knows about it,back then it was the 6 o'clock news and the news paper and as a child I was not interested in either I guess.

It was Rays post of the fallen officers from back in the day when I kinda realized that there was some heavy stuff going on back then as well.

I do kinda think that this is a inner city thing and has been going on sense the 60s [[well it was like that in Minneapolis anyways) and the only reason it is an issue now is because those that have not experienced it are becoming aware of it when they start choosing to sending their children to school.

I also think that the US taxpayer deserves a refund because there has been a education head or whatever they are called in the government,that has been collecting a paycheck and not addressing a 50 year old problem.What exactly are they doing?

It is not just Detroit, it is every major and minor city in the country,the only way for the city to buy its way out of it would be to have a 25 to 1 ratio and that is not going to happen quick.

I think it is going to take a country wide organized effort to lite the fire and make somebody actually earn their paycheck.

Trying to make a 6 year old learn 12 grade math and giving a test every three days are pacifist reactions,and kinda shows the education level of those in charge.

Sorry state when we can put a missile on a flea on the back of a camel from 12,000 miles away,but yet we cannot figure out how to educate a kid.

[GPCharles]

Back to my earlier post...

You can't educate a kid that

1. Isn't there and/or

2. Doesn't give rat's ass about learning anything.

[Richard]

Back to my earlier post...

You can't educate a kid that

1. Isn't there and/or

2. Doesn't give rat's ass about learning anything.

I would not think that that is even debatable,the question is what does one do with them?

Not in school they are hanging out,maybe causing problems and becoming a part of the system,or lack of education they have a low end job and rely on the system for substance.

Either way it is costly,so is it cheaper to deal with them for twelve years or the remainder 50,I would think it is better to find a solution when they are at the younger age then when they are old enough to become a part of a dead end system.

[mwilbert]

1. I've coached at a DPS school and when I ask students why they skip school, the answers were not any of the ones that you've provided here. Unfortunately, the reasons were watching tv, talking on the phone with girls, hanging out, and sleeping.

According to my sources, two other common reasons are either that it is too cold to go to school that day, or that the weather is too nice to go to school that day. When you don't have any particular reason to think that going to school is going to result in anything good, which is a pretty reasonable thing to think if you are attending a bad school and are already a couple of years behind, pretty much anything is a good reason not to go to school.

[GPCharles]

There is a saying [[terribly paraphrased) that if you haven't caught them by the 3rd grade, you've missed them.

Meaning you have to get children engaged in their education as early as possible.