Breaking: Illitch donating 40 million to build NEW WSU business school on Woodward

[jmarie]

I don't think the building looks bad. Actually, compared to the last rendering of the Hudson site, I feel this building looks quite nice.

[LAS2AMS]

Wow. Sounds like you are saying WSU should just shutter its windows and slowly fade into the sunset.

I said/implied no such thing. What I said was that WSU's population has been declining and will continue to decline; instead of spending millions [[in addition to Illitch's gift) building a new structure that will cost seven figures annually to operate, the money would be better spent improving incumbent facilities. Even after the new business school opens, WSU still needs to renovate the space within the Prentis Building.

Second, however, WSU is in the middle of a huge fund raising campaign. The remaining 15M or so will come from that campaign. As I posted above, WSU has been trying for say 10 years to raise enough funds to build a new school of business building at Woodward/Ferry/Palmer. All of this predates the arena venture.

I acknowledge WSU has been trying to build a new business school for more than 10 years, but things have changed. Its student population is in decline -- 17.5% since 2007, although the number's closer to 25%-30% when you discount the number of non-college ready students WSU began admitting to plug its losses [[a practice that's earned the school plenty of criticism due to high drop out rate; a couple years ago, the school began offering 7.5-week summer "crash courses" in math & literacy to correct this -- free of charge, including room & board).

Also worth mentioning that leadership within the business school is pushing to strengthen undergrad grad requirements to a minimum of 2.0 in all required precore/core/major courses -- equivalent to the national standard, but also likely to shave off quite a few students.

Everyone knows that WSU is the college of last resort for people seeking more than an associates degree. ... I would not put too much weight on your comment on the shrinking number of school aged residents. State universities are more interested in admitting out of state and foreign students where they make much more money than worrying about educating their own residents.

I disagree. Yes, it's easier to get into and graduate from WSU's business school, but a student with a 3.5 GPA is going to get the same local employment opportunities as students with similar GPAs [[and work/extracurricular backgrounds) at OU, EMU and even MSU. I would argue that the employment prospects are better for the WSU grad than at OU & EMU simply because leadership is more active in bringing employers to campus. [[Of course, employers go to MSU and WSU will never be able to match that.)

A "college of last resort" would be Baker. I say that only because few employers actively recruit Baker grads. When I went with a friend to Baker's career fair last fall, the majority of jobs available were menial and did not require any college education. Of the few employers that were seeking four-year degrees, most [[Quicken Loans, Northwestern Mutal, etc.) cared less about a student's academic achievement [[they just had to have a degree) and more about their ability to sell.

As far as international & out-of-state students, only UM & MSU bring in significant numbers. Only about 5%-7% of WSU's population historically pays out-of-state or international tuition [[so that excludes "good neighbors.")

[emu steve]

You supply a lot of data regarding certain problems at WSU, HOWEVER[[!!), you fail to realize that the money is a gift toward a BUILDING at a particular LOCATION with naming rights for the benefactor.

The Ilitches aren't giving WSU a gift card to 'use as it sees best.' It isn't to renovate Prentiss or any other building project on the main campus.

They are giving them a building for 30 cents on the dollar, a bargain. This building has been a priority for WSU for 10 years. It meets an identified need.

It will be up to Wayne to 'leverage' that gift the best they can. For example, it might be nice to have say 100-unit graduate student housing in Brush Park.

Also a closer relationship between the school of business and the Ilitches enterprises. I wouldn't be surprised if Little Caesars didn't agree to take a specified number of interns each year.

For those into statistics, it might be interesting to study the quantity and quality of the new applicants for the school of business, esp. the grad program starting, comparing new applicants for say 2018 with those of 2015.

[ABetterDetroit]

I will commend him for his generosity. WSU needs big donors to help upgrade facilities no doubt.

I question if this new building would have better served the students and faculty of the university by being on campus, seems to me it would have. I can't see where the students benefit having the newest state of the art beautiful building way off campus right next door to a professional hockey arena. Why are the Ilitch companies going to retain title to the property the building is built on? Is any parking included in the gift? I have to question that because parking is a huge part of their Detroit business empire and might have something to do with why they need to dictate that this building is built right next to their newest Ilitch owned parking expansion in Detroit.

To find out how much this family is really concerned about "connecting" parts of Detroit together look at what is happening at The Fine Arts Building that they own between Fox town and downtown right on Grand Circus Park and you can see its not very much because it remains an eyesore and an embarrassment.

http://detroit.curbed.com/archives/2...facadomy-1.php

What is the plan for The United Artist Building? Still appears to be nothing also. Others are making investments to bring long vacant buildings back into the people business but not the Ilitch family. They will not even touch the buildings they have owned for decades except to demo for surface parking.

[DetroitBoy]

When you do the math, more like 20% of the number of full time graduate and undergraduate students are foreign students.

It only takes 6 months to become a resident and pay at that rate and there are numerous scholarships for foreign students. In addition, residents from Ontario or any of the other Great Lake states — Illinois, Indiana, Minnesota, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin pay resident tuition. Also, undocumented students qualify as residents and pay resident tuition. With all this, the percentage of true resident students is even lower.

For a public, not for profit college, all you have to do is pretty much be breathing and Wayne will take you.

[LAS2AMS]

You supply a lot of data regarding certain problems at WSU, HOWEVER[[!!), you fail to realize that the money is a gift toward a BUILDING at a particular LOCATION with naming rights for the benefactor.

The Ilitches aren't giving WSU a gift card to 'use as it sees best.' It isn't to renovate Prentiss or any other building project on the main campus.

They are giving them a building for 30 cents on the dollar, a bargain. This building has been a priority for WSU for 10 years. It meets an identified need.

I completely realize this and addressed it in my above postings: it's not a "free" building, WSU is contributing an estimated $15M-$20M [[depending on the source) and then WSU will absorb the annual operating cost, which will likely swell into seven figures given the need to shuttle students between it & the main campus. Put simply, that's a lot of cash that would be better spent upgrading incumbent facilities.

[emu steve]

I completely realize this and addressed it in my above postings: it's not a "free" building, WSU is contributing an estimated $15M-$20M [[depending on the source) and then WSU will absorb the annual operating cost, which will likely swell into seven figures given the need to shuttle students between it & the main campus. Put simply, that's a lot of cash that would be better spent upgrading incumbent facilities.

False dichotomy.

It is an 'almost' free, beautiful, state of the art, etc. etc. building in a location probably of the Ilitches' choosing.

The other choice probably would be: Nothing.

That said, I'm not sure that being on the main campus is a better option for WSU and the business students esp. graduate business students.

All I can do is speak what I think, if I were a 21 year old student again, and that is I'd much prefer to be at the new building and wish WSU had student housing near the new building for upperclassmen/grad students.

[jerrytimes]

Very cool thing to do for Detroit.

[emu steve]

We've kind of beat this horse to death, but one last point about the Ilitches' motivation.

I doubt it is about parking revenue, etc. etc. BUT I have LONG maintained that Ilitches are dead serious about seeing quality buildings surrounding their new arena.

That block [[actually those blocks) between Sproat and Temple are adjacent to the arena.

Who wants a 500M state of the art arena and have a desolate block with Woodward frontage next to it? Who else would build a 40 - 50M office building there outside the downtown area? Would we rather the Ilitches sell the block and have a McDonalds or Burger King built there?

My guess is that the Ilitches decided that it is best to be involved in building a structure at that block and this was an ideal project.

Worst yet, without this new building maybe some of the old existing buildings between Sproat and Temple [[at Park) would remain and that wouldn't be aesthetically good.

Maybe this new building encourages rehabbing of the alhambra apartments? Maybe something along Woodward between Temple and Charlotte?

Like, hello, now that M-1 is coming to New Center folks are buying up store fronts there. Why not buy up the store fronts at Charlotte/Woodward?

[emu steve]

Crains has a very nice article with some updated and very interesting info:

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...-raising-funds

1). Ground to be broke this coming spring, 2016? and completion by say Dec 2017. Eighteen months to complete? Does that seem unusually long?

2). WSU has 2,400 undergrad business students and 850 grad. The dean is quoted as saying grad enrollment this fall is up almost 100 over previous fall enrollments.

3). Could add approximately 600 undergrad and 650 more business students once in the new building.

I have one comment for the naysayers, etc.:

This project, obviously, has the blessing of the dean of the school of business at Wayne State.

I would hope that the dean [[and others) within the school of business are capable of making a first rate, well thought out, etc. business decision.

Otherwise... Why are parents sending their children and $ there to learn from them???

[DetroitBoy]

Crains has a very nice article with some updated and very interesting info:

...This project, obviously, has the blessing of the dean of the school of business at Wayne State.

I would hope that the dean [[and others) within the school of business are capable of making a first rate, well thought out, etc. business decision.

Otherwise... Why are parents sending their children and $ there to learn from them???

Because:

1) It's cheap

2) Their kids don't have the grades and test scores to go anywhere else and

3) EMU is even easier to get into but it is too far of a commute

[Mackinaw]

Or, because if you DO have the test scores and grades, it's free or close to it thanks to scholarships. Wayne is a well-known back up for solid kids coming out of privileged districts that do not make it into UM and are too smart to go waste their money away out of state, or needlessly travel to the west side of the state for an education that's no better than Wayne. Plus, Wayne is a more interesting place to live for some 20-year-olds than western MI

[ABetterDetroit]

You supply a lot of data regarding certain problems at WSU, HOWEVER[[!!), you fail to realize that the money is a gift toward a BUILDING at a particular LOCATION with naming rights for the benefactor.

Steve, how are these not strings attached? Naming rights being a given but the gift toward a "BUILDING at a particular LOCATION" could smell like a location that benefits the benefactor and not the University. I lived on campus at more than one University and I remember clearly that know one wanted to have a class at the farthest flung building from the dorms, cafe and other classes.

[emu steve]

Steve, how are these not strings attached? Naming rights being a given but the gift toward a "BUILDING at a particular LOCATION" could smell like a location that benefits the benefactor and not the University. I lived on campus at more than one University and I remember clearly that know one wanted to have a class at the farthest flung building from the dorms, cafe and other classes.

Actually, I WAS making the point that there are strings attached. The benefactor has a chosen location. The U was not free to come up with their own usage of the money or build the building where they wish.

While we discuss the location [[or design, or both) of the building school, let's not forget that this is the 2nd big gift Mike Ilitch has made to WSU.

Previously he gave 8.5M to the department of surgery.

That's a total of nearly 50M, a very, very impressive sum for Wayne State.

50M is 10% of the endowment of a large number of universities [[many universities have endowments of less than 500M).

[DetroitBoy]

Or, because if you DO have the test scores and grades, it's free or close to it thanks to scholarships. Wayne is a well-known back up for solid kids coming out of privileged districts that do not make it into UM and are too smart to go waste their money away out of state, or needlessly travel to the west side of the state for an education that's no better than Wayne. Plus, Wayne is a more interesting place to live for some 20-year-olds than western MI

If they can't get into Michigan, then they don't have the grades and scores to get into any other schools of that caliber in state or out.

You get what you pay for. Since Wayne is cheap, expect that is the type of education you will have received when you walk out. Instructors will always dumb the classes down to the lowest common denominator. That doesn't happen at schools like Michigan or a similar caliber where the instructors raise the bar not lower it.

[emu steve]

If they can't get into Michigan, then they don't have the grades and scores to get into any other schools of that caliber in state or out.

You get what you pay for. Since Wayne is cheap, expect that is the type of education you will have received when you walk out. Instructors will always dumb the classes down to the lowest common denominator. That doesn't happen at schools like Michigan or a similar caliber where the instructors raise the bar not lower it.

My mother told me many [[many) years ago that there is a Jill for every Jack.

Jack doesn't need to be handsome, rich, brilliant, etc.

Jill doesn't need to be beautiful, rich, brilliant, etc.

Leading men in Hollywood many times select leading ladies in Hollywood.

Most people OTOH just find someone they are happy to spend their lives. Not the most brilliant or handsome/beautiful, etc. in their zip code.

As I understand it, the ACT test goes up to 36. I believe the median is around 21.

Universities educate those with scores of 20 - 36 and everything in between and even some below 20.

Students should pick the universities which fit their academic achievement levels and their aspirations.

This isn't like pro sports where only a few make it big and the rest look to other non-athletic fields for their life work.

One can shoot to be a CFO or a cubicle worker doing accounting. Plenty of jobs for the elite as well as for those who are simply 'good' at what they do.

Universities need to educate the next CFO and also those accountants who do the gritty work every day.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Terrible design. I disagree with the premise of "neoclassical" [[wrong continent, wrong millennium. Will the students be required to wear togas to class?), but if you're going to do neoclassical then do a good job of it. It's not rocket science. I'll also add that if you're going for something populist, people would overwhelmingly prefer an actual neoclassical building to the clipart version of a neoclassical building.

And does anyone actually think mullet architecture is good in any way? Stolid tradition in the front, and 21st century tactical synergy projection in the back.

It's terrible that the people who are trying to say that Detroit is some kind of cultural hot spot are the same people responsible for this stuff.

Wrong continent, wrong millennium? By that standard, every Tudor styled house in Sherwood Forest or the University District is also out of place.

[Gistok]

Steve, how are these not strings attached? Naming rights being a given but the gift toward a "BUILDING at a particular LOCATION" could smell like a location that benefits the benefactor and not the University. I lived on campus at more than one University and I remember clearly that know one wanted to have a class at the farthest flung building from the dorms, cafe and other classes.

Then how does one justify the College for Creative Studies having part of their campus at the Argonaut Building, nearly a mile from their main campus next to the DIA?

[Jason]

Wrong continent, wrong millennium? By that standard, every Tudor styled house in Sherwood Forest or the University District is also out of place.

Actually, yes!

In truth the Tudor style is not so much a style as it is a type of construction. It's a timber frame structure with wattle and daub [[sticks and mud) infill, or sometimes brick infill. The exterior wood is sealed, giving it its black color, and the infill is plastered and painted white. The closest thing that Detroit has to tudor architecture are actually old factories, which are exposed concrete construction with brick infill. But the whole concept of tudor architecture here is nonsensical. https://goo.gl/maps/xRnZmvj3Hy32 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU0d8kpybVg

The bigger offense are the arts and crafts houses though. The arts and crafts movement was a response in England to the industrial revolution. It was aligned with socialism, and rejected industrialization and machine-made objects in favor of the traditional trades [[and politically, the trade unions). And then in Detroit we have union busting barons of the auto industry, the crowning glory of capitalism and industrialization, using mechanized construction methods to build mansions in exclusive neighborhoods. Everyone involved, from client to architect, either didn't know or didn't care about what the arts and crafts movement was actually about. There's more to architecture than decorating facades.

Sadly I think the same attitude applies to most of the United States's and Detroit's architecture [[if you can even call it architecture). In the 1950s and the 1960s we were making mostly unprincipled and shallow copies of the architecture from the 1920s and 1930s. We were copying Le Corbusier when Le Corbusier himself had already moved on to more comprehensive and nuanced approaches. The stuff you hear in architecture today about connectivity and clustering and the value of transportation and diversity and neighborhood and community were things that european architects were coming up with in the 50s and 60s.

There are bright spots in American architecture though. Frank Lloyd Wright, Sullivan, Richardson... All very original and critical thinkers who created true architecture that was relevant to the situations they were designing for. There are others as well.

What I'd like for architects to do is to think deep and hard about architecture [[they are architects afterall. Isn't that their job?) to develop coherent ideas about architecture that hold up under scrutiny. Instead we have architects who shallowly copy and mix without a thought, because it's faster and easier [[the architects get paid the same amount regardless of how hard they work) for them to "design" that way. Not only that but their lowest common denominator work is the most popular to the public and to the clients. So why risk alienating clients and the public just for the ability to work harder without getting paid more? I understand the dynamic but something has to budge if we want good architecture. At the very least we can acknowledge that what we've been getting has been bad.

[Hermod]

Actually, yes!

In truth the Tudor style is not so much a style as it is a type of construction. It's a timber frame structure with wattle and daub [[sticks and mud) infill, or sometimes brick infill. The exterior wood is sealed, giving it its black color, and the infill is plastered and painted white. The closest thing that Detroit has to tudor architecture are actually old factories, which are exposed concrete construction with brick infill. But the whole concept of tudor architecture here is nonsensical. https://goo.gl/maps/xRnZmvj3Hy32 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU0d8kpybVg

The bigger offense are the arts and crafts houses though. The arts and crafts movement was a response in England to the industrial revolution. It was aligned with socialism, and rejected industrialization and machine-made objects in favor of the traditional trades [[and politically, the trade unions). And then in Detroit we have union busting barons of the auto industry, the crowning glory of capitalism and industrialization, using mechanized construction methods to build mansions in exclusive neighborhoods. Everyone involved, from client to architect, either didn't know or didn't care about what the arts and crafts movement was actually about. There's more to architecture than decorating facades.

Sadly I think the same attitude applies to most of the United States's and Detroit's architecture [[if you can even call it architecture). In the 1950s and the 1960s we were making mostly unprincipled and shallow copies of the architecture from the 1920s and 1930s. We were copying Le Corbusier when Le Corbusier himself had already moved on to more comprehensive and nuanced approaches. The stuff you hear in architecture today about connectivity and clustering and the value of transportation and diversity and neighborhood and community were things that european architects were coming up with in the 50s and 60s.

There are bright spots in American architecture though. Frank Lloyd Wright, Sullivan, Richardson... All very original and critical thinkers who created true architecture that was relevant to the situations they were designing for. There are others as well.

What I'd like for architects to do is to think deep and hard about architecture [[they are architects afterall. Isn't that their job?) to develop coherent ideas about architecture that hold up under scrutiny. Instead we have architects who shallowly copy and mix without a thought, because it's faster and easier [[the architects get paid the same amount regardless of how hard they work) for them to "design" that way. Not only that but their lowest common denominator work is the most popular to the public and to the clients. So why risk alienating clients and the public just for the ability to work harder without getting paid more? I understand the dynamic but something has to budge if we want good architecture. At the very least we can acknowledge that what we've been getting has been bad.

Dyes at its finest! Piss and moan about no one building anything in Detroit and then when someone does put up money to build something, piss and moan about the architecture.

[ABetterDetroit]

Then how does one justify the College for Creative Studies having part of their campus at the Argonaut Building, nearly a mile from their main campus next to the DIA?

Good point. The only argument I have is that the DIA is a significant source of inspiration and culture where a professional sports stadium not quite so much.

Again I commend the gift of $, just not wild about the "I want it right here where all the Red Wing fans will be able to see it". If he really gave a damn about how things looked he would have done something about the Fine Arts building facade he owns right around the corner from his HQ by now.

[DetroitBoy]

Dyes at its finest! Piss and moan about no one building anything in Detroit and then when someone does put up money to build something, piss and moan about the architecture.

That's right. With so many brilliant people like these in the community, it is amazing Detroit isn't a world leader in preservation and urban planning.

[Richard]

That's right. With so many brilliant people like these in the community, it is amazing Detroit isn't a world leader in preservation and urban planning.

I am thinking that at least people care enough to get involved,that is a good thing compared with the past. Yes ?

[SDCC]

Actually, yes!

In truth the Tudor style is not so much a style as it is a type of construction. It's a timber frame structure with wattle and daub [[sticks and mud) infill, or sometimes brick infill. The exterior wood is sealed, giving it its black color, and the infill is plastered and painted white. The closest thing that Detroit has to tudor architecture are actually old factories, which are exposed concrete construction with brick infill. But the whole concept of tudor architecture here is nonsensical. https://goo.gl/maps/xRnZmvj3Hy32 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU0d8kpybVg

The bigger offense are the arts and crafts houses though. The arts and crafts movement was a response in England to the industrial revolution. It was aligned with socialism, and rejected industrialization and machine-made objects in favor of the traditional trades [[and politically, the trade unions). And then in Detroit we have union busting barons of the auto industry, the crowning glory of capitalism and industrialization, using mechanized construction methods to build mansions in exclusive neighborhoods. Everyone involved, from client to architect, either didn't know or didn't care about what the arts and crafts movement was actually about. There's more to architecture than decorating facades.

Sadly I think the same attitude applies to most of the United States's and Detroit's architecture [[if you can even call it architecture). In the 1950s and the 1960s we were making mostly unprincipled and shallow copies of the architecture from the 1920s and 1930s. We were copying Le Corbusier when Le Corbusier himself had already moved on to more comprehensive and nuanced approaches. The stuff you hear in architecture today about connectivity and clustering and the value of transportation and diversity and neighborhood and community were things that european architects were coming up with in the 50s and 60s.

There are bright spots in American architecture though. Frank Lloyd Wright, Sullivan, Richardson... All very original and critical thinkers who created true architecture that was relevant to the situations they were designing for. There are others as well.

What I'd like for architects to do is to think deep and hard about architecture [[they are architects afterall. Isn't that their job?) to develop coherent ideas about architecture that hold up under scrutiny. Instead we have architects who shallowly copy and mix without a thought, because it's faster and easier [[the architects get paid the same amount regardless of how hard they work) for them to "design" that way. Not only that but their lowest common denominator work is the most popular to the public and to the clients. So why risk alienating clients and the public just for the ability to work harder without getting paid more? I understand the dynamic but something has to budge if we want good architecture. At the very least we can acknowledge that what we've been getting has been bad.

Dyes at its finest! Piss and moan about no one building anything in Detroit and then when someone does put up money to build something, piss and moan about the architecture.

I like both posts...

[emu steve]

Good point. The only argument I have is that the DIA is a significant source of inspiration and culture where a professional sports stadium not quite so much.

Again I commend the gift of $, just not wild about the "I want it right here where all the Red Wing fans will be able to see it". If he really gave a damn about how things looked he would have done something about the Fine Arts building facade he owns right around the corner from his HQ by now.

Can I quote Jeb Bush: "Blah, blah, blah".

As far as DIA vs. pro sports:

What is the total attendance for the Red Wings within a season?

What is the total patronage at DIA for say a calendar year?