Livernois and McNichols

[archfan]

A lacrosse goal is a heck of a lot heavier than a bicycle...so if people are trying to steal those, then a bike would be no problem. The average person could probably throw a lot of the newer types of [[lighter) bicycles over a fence.
...

If I were looking for who moved the lacrosse goal, I'd look inside the fence.

[Towne Cluber]

If I were looking for who moved the lacrosse goal, I'd look inside the fence.

Perhaps you should let UDM Public Safety as well as their Athletic Department know that your finding differs from their investigations.

[Towne Cluber]

I appreciate your call for civility. Likewise, I appreciate that you bring some first-hand perspective to the discussion. I would point out that Radcliffe Yard [[another "original part of campus", as it was its own separate school at one time) has gates as well. There are some other gates and walls mixed in throughout campus -- but as the university has expanded within the city blocks itself -- most of it is without barriers.

[bust]

I appreciate your call for civility. Likewise, I appreciate that you bring some first-hand perspective to the discussion. I would point out that Radcliffe Yard [[another "original part of campus", as it was its own separate school at one time) has gates as well. There are some other gates and walls mixed in throughout campus -- but as the university has expanded within the city blocks itself -- most of it is without barriers.

I'm glad we worked that out. I didn't intend to direct my initial opinion specifically at you in the first place, although I can see why you took it that way. I could have picked a better choice of words. And I count myself among those who should withhold my opinion when I have only weak evidence to support it. Usually I do.

I hope the best for U of D and the neighborhood around it. I haven't been by there since a long time ago.

I know there have been positive developments in the University District recently. I also remember there was a neighborhood of solid homes East of the University. And the scale of the place seemed well-suited for fostering community. Is that area called Martin Park? It would be great to hear some good news from there too. Or any news.

Meanwhile I was surprised to hear from someone who graduated from U of D Law that he attended all his classes downtown. I can understand how classes downtown would be appealing. The particular person I met was from a small town in another state, and I'm sure he felt more comfortable there. How long has the Law School been there? Does the University have any more plans to migrate downtown? That wouldn't bode well for their traditional home.

[professorscott]

Meanwhile I was surprised to hear from someone who graduated from U of D Law that he attended all his classes downtown. I can understand how classes downtown would be appealing. The particular person I met was from a small town in another state, and I'm sure he felt more comfortable there. How long has the Law School been there? Does the University have any more plans to migrate downtown? That wouldn't bode well for their traditional home.

U of D Law School has always been downtown. U of D per se was just east of downtown from its inception in 1877 until it migrated most parts of itself to the Livernois-McNichols location in the mid 1920s. The evening college of Business and Administration remained downtown until the 1980s or 1990s. So far as I know, it has never been possible for a law student to take any courses anyplace except the downtown Law School location.

[DetroitBoy]

I'm glad we worked that out. I didn't intend to direct my initial opinion specifically at you in the first place, although I can see why you took it that way. I could have picked a better choice of words. And I count myself among those who should withhold my opinion when I have only weak evidence to support it. Usually I do.

I hope the best for U of D and the neighborhood around it. I haven't been by there since a long time ago.

I know there have been positive developments in the University District recently. I also remember there was a neighborhood of solid homes East of the University. And the scale of the place seemed well-suited for fostering community...

Yeah, positive developments like a judge getting shot outside his own home by some hoodlum in March. Keep your fond memories of the area intact. It's ghetto now and no PR campaign can wash away the rampant crime.

[mwilbert]

Yeah, positive developments like a judge getting shot outside his own home by some hoodlum in March. Keep your fond memories of the area intact. It's ghetto now and no PR campaign can wash away the rampant crime.

I guess you are entitled to your idea of what constitutes "ghetto", but I don't really think the University District qualifies, despite the fact that it isn't free of crime. I'm not aware of a PR campaign, but if there is one I hope it isn't promoting unrealistic expectations about that--it's a nice place to live, and reasonably safe, but it isn't hermetically sealed off from the problems of the city, and sometimes bad things happen, as in the case of the judge you mention.

[bust]

Yeah, positive developments like a judge getting shot outside his own home by some hoodlum in March. Keep your fond memories of the area intact. It's ghetto now and no PR campaign can wash away the rampant crime.

I have no illusions about crime in Detroit. But one story does not a full picture paint. More recently than March, a man was shot in Macomb Township yesterday, and another was killed in Livonia -- but I wouldn't think twice before visiting.

I live within walking distance from where the senior aide to New York's Governor Cuomo was shot in Brooklyn yesterday. Even closer, there has been a rash of shootings two blocks from my home this summer [[even while crime in New York was the lowest this summer in decades). My wife was witness to a murder in Manhattan a few years ago. In a neighborhood where today if your grand kids visited New York they'd head to drink. Our building was broken into last summer. The police came and failed to clear him from the downstairs apartment, and the burglar finished robbing it after they left. I was held up at gunpoint in Philadelphia. Also in Philadelphia, I was jumped by three guys and hit over the head with a 2x4. That was before I got them to apologize. And I stopped two crackheads from breaking into my nearby apartment in the middle of the night. Yet I'd still live there. In fact that neighborhood has improved dramatically since then. High among the reasons, but certainly not the only explanation: I credit a drop in popularity of crack cocaine.

Back to Detroit, it seems that Palmer Woods, Sherwood Forest, and the University District have all been significantly improving lately. I say this based on the entire collection of anecdotes I've heard, cross-referenced with real estate valuations. I hope next in line are Bagley and Martin Park -- if that's the right name for the neighborhood East of the University. A quick cruise on Street View shows that Martin Park is still still an intact neighborhood of great homes, even while it seems more precarious because the neighborhood to the South seems very dangerous, day or night. Of course plenty of people do rest their heads there. And I'm not going on any good first hand information.

So if you have any informative facts or first hand specifics, please share. I don't know the area, but it reminds me of other neighborhoods in other cities I'm familiar with that were formerly ravaged by crime, had good housing stock and some other nice amenities, and have recently become prime areas. Not everyone wants or needs a mansion like you can find in Palmer Woods, Boston-Edison, and Indian Village. That's why adjacent neighborhoods with homes for middle and upper-middle class people are so important too.

If you take away anything from my comment, I hope it's that rampant crime can go away. It takes work, optimism, and a confluence of other factors. Writing off the neighborhood doesn't help.

[Bham1982]

I have no illusions about crime in Detroit. But one story does not a full picture paint. More recently than March, a man was shot in Macomb Township yesterday, and another was killed in Livonia -- but I wouldn't think twice before visiting.

Probably because anecdotes don't trump data.

There are people killed in Switzerland, and people killed in Syria. There is no geography on earth without killings. That doesn't mean that all areas have the same level of relative risk.

[Towne Cluber]

UDM's Dental School is also downtown [[in Corktown since 2008).

Sure, it would be nice if the entire university was located on one big contiguous campus but its not a deal-breaker. Heck even Harvard's campus is spread out between Cambridge [[main), Boston [[Med School), and Allston [[expansion of some Athletics, Business, Sciences, Housing, etc.).