Sterling Heights Mosque Controversy

[EastsideAl]

My understanding is that Chaldeans are not just Christian but Catholic. I was once told they were one of the early adherents to Catholicism -- while Rome was still pagan.

Chaldean [[or Assyrian) Christians belong to differing denominations. The Chaldean Catholic Church is perhaps the largest, and is a Syriac rite church that exists in full communion with the Roman Catholic Church [[like the Lebanese Maronite Catholics). There is also the Catholic Assyrian Church of the East, which exists independent of either Roman Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy.

[Danny]

If that [[Baitful) mosque was to be completed in 15 Mile Rd near Mound Rd. There will be high traffic from its members coming and going. Even during their Friday services and Muslim call to prayer will be yelled out say "Allah Akbar!" There is no god but Allah, Mohammed and its prophets, the benefit the merciful" Will those middle class white folks who live around the mosque will move out! Some will only to replace be fewer Muslim folks who would live next to their beautiful [[Baitful) mosque with minuets towering all over Sterling Heights.

What would happen a Jewish Synagogue was to be built there?

So much for freedom of religion.

[Honky Tonk]

I frankly don't care what they believe. Mow your lawn, be friendly, come over for a BBQ, it all matters not to me.

Great idea, make pork chops.

[Scottathew]

This is an extremely important point.

IMO, the problem is that we have a deserved, but inappropriately high level of respect for Islam -- and little appreciation for its victims.

The Chaldeans are very much victims of radical Islam.

Like the Jews, they just aren't today's victims du jour.

But back to the original topic, should that prevent mosques from being built in Sterling Heights?

[Wesley Mouch]

And I hated getting woke up by the 6am Angelus bells; and I was Catholic

You must not live in Hamtramck or near a mosque with a bad crackly loudspeaker. The call is a bit more intrusive than bells, overall.

That said, it a new church wants bells, I'm against it too. Bells, as a tradition, can fade away over time. Silence can reign.

[Scottathew]

Big +1. I fully support freedom of religion, but religions should not be exempt from the social responsibilities the rest of us honor [[or at least are bound to submit).

I agree. We ought to start taxing churches just like every other entity is.

[aj3647]

I hate that I have to hear the call to prayer where I live, and I wish Islam would go away.

1953

Then move. They're not going away.

[One Shot]

Then move. They're not going away.

YOU and them move! They are the minority and we have the right to vote on things we don't like. Be it religious or not! WTF? That's the problem with this country nowadays!

[Zacha341]

Not every 'entity' is taxed. There are many non-profit organizations secular and faith based, business and service oriented, left and right of the political scale, etc that are not taxed.

I agree. We ought to start taxing churches just like every other entity is.

[Cliffy]

YOU and them move! They are the minority and we have the right to vote on things we don't like. Be it religious or not! WTF? That's the problem with this country nowadays!

I have to agree. I don't want a Mosque in my neighborhood either. I don't want to hear the call for prayers. I don't even want to hear church bells either. Nobody wants to listen to this crap

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBPjOpwQRVs

I'm sick of all this PC crap. I'm a liberal but some of you liberals are going way too far. If people don't want this in their neighborhood, then they have every right to veto it.

[Jason]

Well we don't like the muslims but they have to live somewhere, so how about we allow them to live in certain specific areas? We can even build a wall separating them from us so that they don't drag down our property values! This is America! We have the right to decide!

Cliffy: A city can decide that music from religious buildings is a noise violation but if they did they'd have to do it for all religions. The people flipping out about a mosque being built in a "catholic residential community" are the same people that would be flipping out about how their "religious freedoms" are being oppressed if you banned church bells.

[Wesley Mouch]

...snip...Cliffy: A city can decide that music from religious buildings is a noise violation but if they did they'd have to do it for all religions. The people flipping out about a mosque being built in a "catholic residential community" are the same people that would be flipping out about how their "religious freedoms" are being oppressed if you banned church bells.

Two thoughts:

1) Suggest that the best way to handle this is to pass an ordinance, but exempt existing -- grandfathering

2) I don't see why you can't ban religious loudspeakers, but not religious sounds. Bells may annoy some, but its not human voice. It seems a fair distinction -- although I also don't really want other sounds becoming a trend either.

3) Allow natural sounds, such as bells -- but disallow the use of amplification. This could allow reasonable ceremonial uses, but disallow talking. I don't have a problem with the call in Hamtramck -- but its bad public policy. Just how many calls should be allowed? 1 per sq. mile. 1 per block. 1 per house. And just how loud can they be. 90db, 120db, 150db -- or only limited by you ability to buy bigger, louder speakers.

I do see how bells and loudspeakers get lumped together, but they are really quite different. Bells have been used for millennia by religious and non-religious purposes. Amplified human voice is very different, and contains a different capability to communicate. They are distinct to me.

Standing in the mosque tower and screaming the prayer seems quite reasonable to me. A 240-volt machine to send that 3 miles does not.

[RaumVogel]

Side note about Europe: http://speisa.com/modules/articles/i...ugee-camp.html

[bust]

I don't like to hear loud noises from religious institutions either. Neither the call to prayer nor church bells, nor whatever someone else makes up next. But I support religious freedom, and the rights of minorities. Even though I'm not religious. It's the foundation of our country.

I'd be in favor of enforcing noise ordinances. Ban anything above a reasonable decibel level. It makes no sense to make a distinction whether the sound is "natural" or amplified. And there is no reason to grandfather anyone in. It would be great if it applied to motorcycles too.

By the way, very few churches use natural sounds these days. Most "church bells" are recordings and they're amplified.

[jcole]

Two thoughts:

1) Suggest that the best way to handle this is to pass an ordinance, but exempt existing -- grandfathering

2) I don't see why you can't ban religious loudspeakers, but not religious sounds. Bells may annoy some, but its not human voice. It seems a fair distinction -- although I also don't really want other sounds becoming a trend either.

3) Allow natural sounds, such as bells -- but disallow the use of amplification. This could allow reasonable ceremonial uses, but disallow talking. I don't have a problem with the call in Hamtramck -- but its bad public policy. Just how many calls should be allowed? 1 per sq. mile. 1 per block. 1 per house. And just how loud can they be. 90db, 120db, 150db -- or only limited by you ability to buy bigger, louder speakers.

I do see how bells and loudspeakers get lumped together, but they are really quite different. Bells have been used for millennia by religious and non-religious purposes. Amplified human voice is very different, and contains a different capability to communicate. They are distinct to me.

Standing in the mosque tower and screaming the prayer seems quite reasonable to me. A 240-volt machine to send that 3 miles does not.

Most churches use recorded bells now; where to you draw the line.

[Cliffy]

Side note about Europe: http://speisa.com/modules/articles/i...ugee-camp.html

Europe is in trouble. This is a big mess.

[Gpwrangler]

. It would be great if it applied to motorcycles too.

not gonna happen lol. Maybe car stereos?

[Wesley Mouch]

Most churches use recorded bells now; where to you draw the line.

Lots of valid options. I'd be happy with 'only real bells with no amplification', but don't really care about the exact line.

I'd like to respect new religious influences in our communities, and yet protect the historic use of bells by churches. I can see that this may be viewed as a 'preference' towards Christianity -- but I don't see it that way. Its just social respect.

In Riyad, I don't think churches have a right to arrive into their soundscape and add bells. Respect, and kindness.

[bust]

not gonna happen lol.

..yet.

Maybe car stereos?

I know for a fact some places already use that as an excuse to pull you over, though it usually has more to do with the way you look. That used to happen when I grew up in Grosse Pointe.

[canuck]

Lots of valid options. I'd be happy with 'only real bells with no amplification', but don't really care about the exact line.

I'd like to respect new religious influences in our communities, and yet protect the historic use of bells by churches. I can see that this may be viewed as a 'preference' towards Christianity -- but I don't see it that way. Its just social respect.

In Riyad, I don't think churches have a right to arrive into their soundscape and add bells. Respect, and kindness.

In Riyad, your bells must never be exposed.



I was walking in my Montreal neighborhood of Little Burgundy this AM and walked around this awesome looking old church [[St Joseph's ca. 1861 recently desacralized or decommissioned) where I noticed muslims had taken over the building in the past coupla years. There was no sign telling this was once a Catholic church nor one stating there was a mosque in there somewhere. I then crossed the street to a path in a social housing project where I noticed two church pews had been randomly set on the grounds. I put two and two together and realized muslims kneel on prayer rugs and someone probably decided to toss these pews that were in the way. Respect. Then again I could be wrong.

[Gpwrangler]

..yet.



I know for a fact some places already use that as an excuse to pull you over, though it usually has more to do with the way you look. That used to happen when I grew up in Grosse Pointe.

No, it's because of how they sound. They are a nuisance. Drivers can't be paying attention with that shit blasting.

[Scottathew]

Is this "call to prayer" thing even a real issue?

I've lived near a mosque in Warren and never heard the call to prayer over loud speakers. Seems to me like a thing that conservatives\Christians use as a go-to scare tactic to oppose mosques being built.

[EastsideAl]

If people don't want this in their neighborhood, then they have every right to veto it.

Umm, no. Not unless someone has changed or significantly reinterpreted the first amendment.

[Wesley Mouch]

Is this "call to prayer" thing even a real issue?

I've lived near a mosque in Warren and never heard the call to prayer over loud speakers. Seems to me like a thing that conservatives\Christians use as a go-to scare tactic to oppose mosques being built.

In Hamtramck, its real. Maybe Warren has some progressive laws that limit demagogues on steroids using crappy loudspeakers.

[Scottathew]

In Hamtramck, its real. Maybe Warren has some progressive laws that limit demagogues on steroids using crappy loudspeakers.

Simple local ordinances targeting this kind of noise can fairly regulate things. No need to ban mosques.