Sterling Heights Mosque Controversy

**Patrick** · August-30-15, 08:35 AM

Apparently, a plan to build a mosque has pissed off some folks in Sterling Heights. I noticed a few interesting aspects in the various articles about the issue at hand. Most notably, the strong presence of Chaldean protesters in the various city hall meetings. I grew up less than a mile from the proposed site, so I find some of the comments interesting. One that stuck out was from this Detnews story:

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...ghts/71380634/

"We are upset but not because it is a mosque," said Debbie Rossi, a long-time city resident, who also lives across from the site. "This is being planned in a residential Catholic community. But we live here because it is a residential community. Now we have deer and fox and beautiful trees. I don't want to hear calls for prayer five times a day but I would be opposed to a church being put up on the site.

I am not sure I follow. There is a residential Catholic community near 15/Mound? I lived right near there for 21 years and I don't recall any community that was specifically designated as Catholic.

Anyways, what are your thoughts on the protests and the plan in general?

**mjb3** · August-30-15, 09:15 AM

Maybe the resident was generalizing the Sterling Hghts demographics[[like a lot of Macomb county - majority Polish/Italian - therefore Roman Catholic). I grew up nearby Clinton Twp in the 80s and S Hghts was majority Polish[[Hamtramck expats) although I'm sure it has changed.

When 696 became the new 8 mile, another migration happened[[Roseville, Warren - emptied out) and the Clint twp/S Hghts people moved out to 22-25 mile[[Macomb, Ray, Bruce Wash Twps).

I seem to remember big influx of Serbian, Albanian to the area in mid-90s. Perhaps the muslim community now is following the Poles pattern in the 70s,80s and moving out to the Heights...

Probably some xenophobia in these protests, but they have right to religion just like anybody else. Just cause it's a mosque doesn't mean they are the Taliban.... My 2c

**Hypestyles** · August-30-15, 09:45 AM

we'll see what happens

**One Shot** · August-30-15, 09:54 AM

If they don't want it they have a right to voice it! But yet today the minorities have the win when it comes time to vote out of fear of offending a certain group. This whole religious freedom bull combined with the open doors of our border is going to become our demise. Immigrants come here and want to separate themselves from American culture. They don't want to assimilate like our ancestors did. They hang onto their homeland values and only associate with their own people. Pretty soon we will have cities that want to cecede from the state/country! We have the right to say NO! Especially to a religion that has produced radical followers!

**EastsideAl** · August-30-15, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by One Shot

a religion that has produced radical followers!

Yes, maybe we should ban all religions that do that...

**Bham1982** · August-30-15, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

Yes, maybe we should ban all religions that do that...

Ridiculous non-equivalence and absurd excuse-making for hate. You sound like an EU politician rationalizing the Mideast invasion into Western Europe.

"Other religions have bad elements, therefore ISIS and Al Queda are exactly the same as 80 year old Catholic church ladies". Sorry, but no. Islam is a far more dangerous religion than the other major world religions, with a vastly greater share of violent, radicalized adherents.

**EastsideAl** · August-30-15, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Ridiculous non-equivalence and absurd excuse-making for hate. You sound like an EU politician rationalizing the Mideast invasion into Western Europe.

"Other religions have bad elements, therefore ISIS and Al Queda are exactly the same as 80 year old Catholic church ladies". Sorry, but no. Islam is a far more dangerous religion than the other major world religions, with a vastly greater share of violent, radicalized adherents.

Yes, I'm sure ISIS and Al Qaeda are enacting a nefarious plot to take over Sterling Heights and turn it into a radical Muslim theocracy... if they can just get the plans for their terrorist mosque through the public review process, that is.

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · August-31-15, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Ridiculous non-equivalence and absurd excuse-making for hate. You sound like an EU politician rationalizing the Mideast invasion into Western Europe.

"Other religions have bad elements, therefore ISIS and Al Queda are exactly the same as 80 year old Catholic church ladies". Sorry, but no. Islam is a far more dangerous religion than the other major world religions, with a vastly greater share of violent, radicalized adherents.

Well now, since the Bible was used to justify slavery, and the KKK and white supremists always seem to be "Christian", I'd say Christianists have caused much more murder and mayhem in this country then Islamists have.

**aj3647** · August-30-15, 01:54 PM

So One Shot is a racist, xenophobic bigot. Good to know.

**Lowell** · August-30-15, 02:16 PM

Makes me curious... Has there ever been a protest against the construction of a Christian church in Metro Detroit?

Off the top of my head I can't.

**rooms222** · August-30-15, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by Lowell

Makes me curious... Has there ever been a protest against the construction of a Christian church in Metro Detroit?

Off the top of my head I can't.

Here is a sampling of ¨protests¨ of Christian churches in Metro Detroit, if by protest you mean meetings of the zoning board packed with protesters and followed by litigation....

Inkster:
http://religionclause.blogspot.com/2011/07/michigan-church-sues-claiming-rluipa.html

Hazel Park:
http://www.attorneysforlanduse.com/cases-hazel.html

Taylor:
http://www.daltontomich.com/blog/metro_south_church_how_a_religious_land_use_issue_ resolved_without_litigati

Southfield:
http://www.hometownlife.com/story/news/local/southfield/2015/03/27/church-wins-new-parking-lot-special-use/70539496/

Northville:
http://www.ca6.uscourts.gov/opinions.pdf/10a0388p-06.pdf

Farmington Hills:
http://aalto.arch.ksu.edu/jwkplan/cases/jesus.pdf

I am not sure if any of these had people actually marching in the streets.

**RO_Resident** · August-30-15, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Lowell

Makes me curious... Has there ever been a protest against the construction of a Christian church in Metro Detroit?

Off the top of my head I can't.

The advent of megachurches in the mid-90's brought about some litigation under the RLUIPA. Northwood Church [[Ridge Rd and M-14) in Plymouth Twp. has had some court cases on record.
http://rluipa-defense.default.wp1.le...f-Plymouth.pdf

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · August-31-15, 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by Lowell

Makes me curious... Has there ever been a protest against the construction of a Christian church in Metro Detroit?

Off the top of my head I can't.

Apparently, they have never been built in a residential area or caused any traffic issues. Ever, in the entire metro area. Go figure.

**Hermod** · August-31-15, 04:11 AM

Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

Apparently, they have never been built in a residential area or caused any traffic issues. Ever, in the entire metro area. Go figure.

Back in the 1970s when my late mother was on a church board in Rochester, the residents were complaining about parking on the streets during Sunday morning services then they fought every effort the church made to expand their off-street parking.

**G-DDT** · September-09-15, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by Lowell

Makes me curious... Has there ever been a protest against the construction of a Christian church in Metro Detroit?

Off the top of my head I can't.

I'm going to have to agree with that observation.

Also, this whole thing reminds me very much of an incident brewing over five years ago when Livonia was to have a Walmarts built within it's borders. Not only do I remember quite well the uproar, but I have saved a string of printed news reports that demonstrated the progression of the reporting of the event: the first concern brought up was racism and having a Walmarts would bring blacks to Livonia, then folks at town hall meetings were out front saying "That this is not about racism.", before going into anything else about the matter [[who? what? imagine walking into that one. It's much like the shabby, harried stranger who comes up to you and the first thing they say in a wild and exaggerated manner is "Okay, okay I'm not crazy. That's the first thing you gotta know."), then following news reports made no more mention of racism, as it seemed everybody in an uproar grabbed at any straw [[much like a lot of Obama's more disingenuous critics who will sputter about anything except what it is that really bothers them about his presence in office) from the noise, to the parking, to the rowdy Walmarts style clientele to prove their dismay.

Well, the Walmarts got built, and it's a Walmarts, but it's a whole heck of a lot better than a lot of the other ones out there.

So, what was the real big deal then about that, and what is the real big deal now about this for Sterling Heights to have a mosque.

**Bham1982** · September-10-15, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by G-DDT

So, what was the real big deal then about that, and what is the real big deal now about this for Sterling Heights to have a mosque.

Are you a homeowner? Probably not.

Most homeowners have the majority of their wealth tied up in their homes. Livonia is an inner-ring suburb and Walmart attracts hoodrats. If I was living in Livonia I sure as hell wouldn't want a nearby Walmart because it would likely lower property values. Even the Walmarts out in Novi, Rochester Hills and Troy are ghetto/trashy.

And that part of Livonia has declined since the Walmart was built, so the protesters were correct in their predictions.

And it isn't race per se. A 90% black neighborhood in Southfield vehemently protested a new Walmart a few years ago, and they were able to stop the project. They knew Walmart attracts crappy clientele.

**dtowncitylover** · August-30-15, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by One Shot

If they don't want it they have a right to voice it! But yet today the minorities have the win when it comes time to vote out of fear of offending a certain group. This whole religious freedom bull combined with the open doors of our border is going to become our demise. Immigrants come here and want to separate themselves from American culture. They don't want to assimilate like our ancestors did. They hang onto their homeland values and only associate with their own people. Pretty soon we will have cities that want to cecede from the state/country! We have the right to say NO! Especially to a religion that has produced radical followers!

How come we didn't assimilate with the Native Americans? What a bunch of white-centric, Glenn Beck, Donald Trump, anti-other load of complete schitt. Everyone complained when the Irish came. They complained when the Jews came. Complained when blacks were integrated. Now you're complaining about Muslims. STFU.

I find the whole "traffic" thing hilarious. Go past the Chaldean church [[St. Joseph's?) on Big Beaver on any given Christian holiday and see police officers [[i.e. public funds) direct traffic because they're packing into that church.

Build a mosque anywhere in American, and watch the worst of American society come out. Freedom of religion for Christian people only and Jews...I guess.

**Jason** · August-30-15, 01:51 PM

What a joke. These people are an embarrassment.

It's standard for schools and religious buildings to be mixed in with residential.

There is already a airport shuttle service, fire station, and doctors offices on 15 mile there, plus a few other small commercial buildings. It's already not a "residential" area and being a mile road you wouldn't expect it to be. The mosque would literally be adjacent to a school and a fire station and a doctor's office.

The parking is not a problem. They say they're providing 130 parking spaces for a maximum of 325 worshipers. Typical attendance is going to be nowhere near the maximum, and a lot of it will be families who will share the same car. In the worst case scenario a few times a year a few cars might have to park at the adjacent school's parking lot. Schools frequently host community events so it should be in line with the spirit and purpose of the facility to provide a few parking spaces in that kind of situation. Likewise at big school events I'm sure some people will park at the mosque.

A mosque is not going to increase traffic on 15 mile. Most of the traffic is just passing through and is unrelated to the neighborhood itself. The rest of the traffic is coming from all of the subdivisions and apartment complexes which dump out exclusively onto 15 mile. For the people directly by the site, they already live next to a loud school that has similar traffic patterns.

To the "If I wanted to live next to a Speedway or a McDonald's I would have done that" person, the site is less than a quarter mile from a burger king and car shop, on a mile road.

There are at least three churches within a mile radius from the site, and there doesn't seem to be any uproar about those. Also, the site is inappropriate for religious institutions [[including churches) because... it's a deeply religious community?

But when you get stuff like "Realtors said we can expect a 30 percent drop in our property values"... vague and exaggerated warnings from realtors saying that your property values will nosedive from a minority having a nearby presence? Where have we heard that before?

**Danny** · September-12-15, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by Jason

What a joke. These people are an embarrassment.

It's standard for schools and religious buildings to be mixed in with residential.

There is already a airport shuttle service, fire station, and doctors offices on 15 mile there, plus a few other small commercial buildings. It's already not a "residential" area and being a mile road you wouldn't expect it to be. The mosque would literally be adjacent to a school and a fire station and a doctor's office.

The parking is not a problem. They say they're providing 130 parking spaces for a maximum of 325 worshipers. Typical attendance is going to be nowhere near the maximum, and a lot of it will be families who will share the same car. In the worst case scenario a few times a year a few cars might have to park at the adjacent school's parking lot. Schools frequently host community events so it should be in line with the spirit and purpose of the facility to provide a few parking spaces in that kind of situation. Likewise at big school events I'm sure some people will park at the mosque.

A mosque is not going to increase traffic on 15 mile. Most of the traffic is just passing through and is unrelated to the neighborhood itself. The rest of the traffic is coming from all of the subdivisions and apartment complexes which dump out exclusively onto 15 mile. For the people directly by the site, they already live next to a loud school that has similar traffic patterns.

To the "If I wanted to live next to a Speedway or a McDonald's I would have done that" person, the site is less than a quarter mile from a burger king and car shop, on a mile road.

There are at least three churches within a mile radius from the site, and there doesn't seem to be any uproar about those. Also, the site is inappropriate for religious institutions [[including churches) because... it's a deeply religious community?

But when you get stuff like "Realtors said we can expect a 30 percent drop in our property values"... vague and exaggerated warnings from realtors saying that your property values will nosedive from a minority having a nearby presence? Where have we heard that before?

The mosque building controversy is a zoning issue over residential issue. It doesn't mix. There some churches alon 15 Mile Rd. but the miles apart from a residential area is they go it right. Religion and race is not the issue those protesters want to keep the mosque out. They look at traffic congestions when they have their Friday [[ Jummah) prayer services. That's democracy in America. We got it right.

**Lowell** · August-30-15, 02:14 PM

Ha! Interesting side note... Google's algorithm read this page and fed me an ad for finding Moslem wives from International Muslim Matrimonials.

Attachment 27849

**EastsideAl** · August-30-15, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Patrick

"We are upset but not because it is a mosque," said Debbie Rossi, a long-time city resident, who also lives across from the site. "This is being planned in a residential Catholic community.

I guess it's good that I have no plans to move to Sterling [[W)Heights. It sounds like I don't meet their religious qualifications for residence.

**IrishSpartan** · August-31-15, 02:18 AM

Originally Posted by EastsideAl

I guess it's good that I have no plans to move to Sterling [[W)Heights. It sounds like I don't meet their religious qualifications for residence.

An outdated and ignorant post based on the current demographics of Sterling Heights.

**EastsideAl** · August-31-15, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by IrishSpartan

An outdated and ignorant post based on the current demographics of Sterling Heights.

Perhaps, and the mosque would be a sign of that, although nothing about trying to keep it out due to being in a "residential Catholic community" gives me any hope that things are changing all that quickly or willingly.

I will admit to never having been back to that lovely community, except to pass through as quickly as possible, after a black friend of mine and I were pulled over for "unnecessary driving" while looking for a friend's house, we were both laid face down on the pavement while my car was trashed [[er, "searched"). Then my friend, an active duty U.S. Marine with valid leave orders, was detained and kept handcuffed to a wall in the police station for over 5 hours while they "checked for warrants" and confirmed his orders with military authorities.

**jcole** · August-30-15, 06:20 PM

The area around 15 and Ryan, about a mile west, has a lot of Arabic restaurants, grocers and clothing stores. Down Ryan around 12 Mile there is a large Muslim worship and learning center called Iona. It appears to have been cobbled together in an old strip mall. Maybe the congregation would just like a nicer location to worship and teach their children. People need to just get over this bullshit; first it was Lutherans who weren't allowed, then Catholics, then Jews, now Muslims. Someone needs to build a giant "Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster" right between a couple of "real" churches and see the reaction. I'm sure all the ladies who lunch will be clutching their pearls.

**Danny** · August-30-15, 06:54 PM

In Sterling Heights there is a Sikh Temple on Dequindre Rd. north of 14 Mile. It's not harming anyone. Let the Muslims put their mosque there. Muslim communities Sterling Heights is growing and contributing their businesses to their communities. Those racist fools just want a "WHITE'S ONLY" community. It's not going to happen. I wonder what will happen if a black church was building in Sterling Heights?