The wild, wild east...

[p69rrh51]

Danny, please do not use richville, the moniker is very old and tired. As for the activity around GP, I live two blocks from Detroit and this summer has been VERY quiet. The automatic gun fire of 7 years ago is completely gone. The helicopter has only been by a few times this summer. There has not been house broken into in my neighborhood in at least 2 years and except for the fireworks going off every so often its been a little to quiet.

[Wesley Mouch]

Pretty sure that previous post was sarcastic.

Sarcasm perhaps. True, no. Relevant, yes.

[Hermod]

Sarcasm perhaps. True, no. Relevant, yes.

There has always been a large income disparity between the blue collar workers in Detroit and the upper classes in the Pointes. I remember my father used to drive us along the lake drive so we kids could "ooooh" and "aaaah" over the mansions. It was a lot of fun for a kid and didn't make me want to erect guillotines for the rich. They were "rich" and we were "us". It was just the way of the world.

Our house in the D [[pic is from recent street view and not from when we lived there)

[Gpwrangler]

There has always been a large income disparity between the blue collar workers in Detroit and the upper classes in the Pointes. I remember my father used to drive us along the lake drive so we kids could "ooooh" and "aaaah" over the mansions. It was a lot of fun for a kid and didn't make me want to erect guillotines for the rich. They were "rich" and we were "us". It was just the way of the world.

Our house in the D [[pic is from recent street view and not from when we lived there)

The income disparity is not caused by the boundary. There are many modest homes in the Pointes. Not everyone lives on the lakeshore. And I have many "blue collar" workers on my block.

[Bobl]

Hermod: "...I remember my father used to drive us along the lake drive so we kids could "ooooh" and "aaaah" over the mansions. It was a lot of fun for a kid and didn't make me want to erect guillotines for the rich. They were "rich" and we were "us". It was just the way of the world..."
My dad did this, too. He often told us that we, too, could live like that if we got a university degree. True, then, but one could work oneself through college at that time. I foolishly chose not to, and settled for an Associate's Degree. Retired, and doing all right, just not on Lakeshore Drive!

[ABetterDetroit]

The very very rare gunfire we hear over this way is mostly just on holidays. It stands as a somewhat unpleasant reminder of the bad old days, and little else. Also, the more-than-occasional fireworks, which seem to come throughout the summer now, and can actually be fun.

Danny, please do not use richville, the moniker is very old and tired. As for the activity around GP, I live two blocks from Detroit and this summer has been VERY quiet. The automatic gun fire of 7 years ago is completely gone. The helicopter has only been by a few times this summer. There has not been house broken into in my neighborhood in at least 2 years and except for the fireworks going off every so often its been a little to quiet.

I like my news from reliable sources. If I wanted to find hyperbole or news with an agenda, that's really easy to find. Al and pr are two of the pillars of this forum. If they say it's improving, it's my belief that it is. Are we out of the woods? Not by a long shot. We have nothing but a lot more work to do but it would be nice if the haters and the people with their own agenda would just get out of the way.

Oh look, Fox News is on....

[canuck]

Ah, the Lib slant strikes again. Pass the buck, blame others and not yourselves.
Do I miss Harry Truman. He said it best.

Boy the way Glen Miller played
Songs that made the hit parade.
Guys like us we had it made,
Those were the days.

And you knew who you were then,
Girls were girls and men were men,
Mister we could use a man
Like Herbert Hoover again.

Didn't need no welfare state,
Everybody pulled his weight.
Gee our old LaSalle ran great.
Those were the days.

[ABetterDetroit]

Boy the way Glen Miller played
Songs that made the hit parade.
Guys like us we had it made,
Those were the days.

And you knew who you were then,
Girls were girls and men were men,
Mister we could use a man
Like Herbert Hoover again.

Didn't need no welfare state,
Everybody pulled his weight.
Gee our old LaSalle ran great.
Those were the days.

Did people really sing themselves out of problems back then with success?
I know the Chinese are big on it as well as the North Koreans and the Russians.
I am just not sure those are the real "problem solvers" I would like to emulate.

[canuck]

Did people really sing themselves out of problems back then with success?
I know the Chinese are big on it as well as the North Koreans and the Russians.
I am just not sure those are the real "problem solvers" I would like to emulate.

Back then would mean the seventies to me. These lyrics were the theme to "All in the Family."

[Honky Tonk]

I like my news from reliable sources. If I wanted to find hyperbole or news with an agenda, that's really easy to find. Al and pr are two of the pillars of this forum. If they say it's improving, it's my belief that it is. Are we out of the woods? Not by a long shot. We have nothing but a lot more work to do but it would be nice if the haters and the people with their own agenda would just get out of the way.

Oh look, Fox News is on....

Well, Since it's improved so much, maybe you and the Misses are ready to leave the 'burbs for the safety and solitude of the City? Or does just adding "Detroit" to your handle and posting on a forum make you feel like one of the problem solvers

[DetroitBoy]

Getting better as measured by what standards? A third world country or a civilized community?

The ongoing crime problem in Detroit is just shifting to the first ring suburbs who are ill equipped to handle it and no plan to help these cities combat Detroit's problem. GPP has been and now GPW is becoming surrounded by ghetto with the borders rapidly disappearing. You can't have ghetto coming at it from all sides and expect you won't be in the middle of it. It's a real shame too because those are beautiful neighborhoods but who wants to live surrounded by violent crime on a shrinking island? Who wants a home where you have to sleep with a gun in your bedroom, can't leave a window open for fear you will have a ghetto rat climb through it to rob you or look out your kitchen window to see cops chasing a hoodlum and taking them down in your backyard? Look at what has happened to Harper Woods. It's becoming a jungle with the fall of Eastland years ago. It just makes you sick to watch it happen. Glad we moved to BH in Oakland county years ago.

[Honky Tonk]

Getting better as measured by what standards? A third world country or a civilized community?

The ongoing crime problem in Detroit is just shifting to the first ring suburbs who are ill equipped to handle it and no plan to help these cities combat Detroit's problem. GPP has been and now GPW is becoming surrounded by ghetto with the borders rapidly disappearing. You can't have ghetto coming at it from all sides and expect you won't be in the middle of it. It's a real shame too because those are beautiful neighborhoods but who wants to live surrounded by violent crime on a shrinking island? Who wants a home where you have to sleep with a gun in your bedroom, can't leave a window open for fear you will have a ghetto rat climb through it to rob you or look out your kitchen window to see cops chasing a hoodlum and taking them down in your backyard? Look at what has happened to Harper Woods. It's becoming a jungle with the fall of Eastland years ago. It just makes you sick to watch it happen. Glad we moved to BH in Oakland county years ago.

Bloomfield Hills...., Bloomfield Hills....., Oh yeah, How are things in Pleasant Pontiac these days?

[Zacha341]

^^^ You do have to pick your suburb carefully and even the area within said suburb, but I get his bigger point of the problems specific to the inner ring areas.

But I'd not leave windows open anywhere. Yet I don't want to live in a area with bars on the windows!

[Gannon]

Fro all the talk of the commonality of gunfire on the near-east side...last night was completely quiet. Clear and comfortable Friday night in the middle of the Summertime, yet nobody seemed to be shooting at anyone else.

I blame the New Moon, I'll be keeping track over the next month or so, best I can. It'll be curious if it gets heavier with the Full phase.

[Gpwrangler]

Getting better as measured by what standards? A third world country or a civilized community?

It's a real shame too because those are beautiful neighborhoods but who wants to live surrounded by violent crime on a shrinking island? Who wants a home where you have to sleep with a gun in your bedroom, can't leave a window open for fear you will have a ghetto rat climb through it to rob you or look out your kitchen window to see cops chasing a hoodlum and taking them down in your backyard? Look at what has happened to Harper Woods. It's becoming a jungle with the fall of Eastland years ago. It just makes you sick to watch it happen. Glad we moved to BH in Oakland county years ago.

Actually it's still quite nice here. It's not a "shrinking island" at all. Our police have the resources they need and we don't follow them around with video cameras. A jungle? Hardly.

[corktownyuppie]

Actually it's still quite nice here. It's not a "shrinking island" at all. Our police have the resources they need and we don't follow them around with video cameras. A jungle? Hardly.

Not to mention...when you encounter 3rd world behavior, as well as the social ills, crime, and other problems that come with it, moving away from it does not actually solve it.

If we learned nothing else from the suburbanization of America from the last half of the 1900s, it's that while moving away from social ills was probably a necessary solution in the short-term, inevitably you will need to marshal societal resources to combat them -- as well as modify behavioral patterns -- or else they will just multiply, intensify, and spread.

If you're moving from Detroit to Silicon Valley, that's probably a long-term fix for you. But if you're just going from Detroit to Redford, then Redford to Livonia, then Livonia to Plymouth to Novi...that's a nice band-aid but inevitably these social problems will start to make their way there, too.

Then what? Novi to Wixom to Brighton?

No problem...we will empty out the tri-county tax base, triple all of our infrastructural costs, then join Wayne County in a consent agreement followed by eventual bankruptcy, then we can shred all of the entrenched powers that be and re-write a municipal government system that's based more on the most efficient use of resources and actual problem solving rather than the old model of just moving one further suburb away.

[ABetterDetroit]

Well, Since it's improved so much, maybe you and the Misses are ready to leave the 'burbs for the safety and solitude of the City? Or does just adding "Detroit" to your handle and posting on a forum make you feel like one of the problem solvers

Thank you for the kind invitation Tonk. I would really like to and I have spent considerable time looking at property tho just haven't found the right place yet. Hopefully sooner than later, the drive is getting old.

[Gpwrangler]

Not to mention...when you encounter 3rd world behavior, as well as the social ills, crime, and other problems that come with it, moving away from it does not actually solve it.

If we learned nothing else from the suburbanization of America from the last half of the 1900s, it's that while moving away from social ills was probably a necessary solution in the short-term, inevitably you will need to marshal societal resources to combat them or they will just multiply, intensify, and spread.

If you're moving from Detroit to Silicon Valley, that's probably a long-term fix for you. But if you're just going from Detroit to Redford, then Redford to Livonia, then Livonia to Plymouth to Novi...that's a nice band-aid but inevitably these social problems will start to make their way there, too.

Then what? Novi to Wixom to Brighton?

No problem...we will empty out the tri-county tax base, triple all of our infrastructural costs, then join Wayne County in a consent agreement followed by eventual bankruptcy, then we can shred all of the entrenched powers that be and re-write a municipal government system that's based more on the most efficient use of resources and actual problem solving rather than the old model of just moving one further suburb away.

I looked at the northern suburbs, but found the lack of diversity to be a negative. And the traffic in Macomb sucks.

[bust]

I looked at the northern suburbs, but found the lack of diversity to be a negative. And the traffic in Macomb sucks.

In my opinion Grosse Pointe is one of the best values in the country. Beautiful homes, great schools, incredible parks, services for families and the elderly, the lake, and a shorter drive downtown or even to Canada than from some parts of Detroit. It has cute business districts that have recently only been getting better. And its increasing diversity is a good thing, as are the departures of any who disagree. When I grew up there prejudice and intolerance were problems. That's getting better, though those are problems still deeply ingrained in the region as a whole.

Homes in Grosse Pointe are much nicer at a fraction of the price than what's available in Royal Oak, Birmingham, or exurbs like Novi -- to say nothing of New York or the Chicago area. Those are fine places too [[except exurbs aren't my thing), but for the money, and for a return on investment in today's market, Grosse Pointe seems a better buy than them all. Prices will rise as the city improves, and I'm optimistic about that. Likewise as younger generations, and their deeper appreciation of urbanity, draw them to neighborhoods that are closer in. For people who enjoy the city or work there but want great schools and safety there's nowhere closer. There are also practical, economic, and environmental reasons why metropolitan areas can't keep spreading unchecked.

As far as spillover crime, it depends. Where my dad lived break-ins were starting to happen. But there was never worse that that. Where my mom lives the worst I've heard of is a stolen car, very rarely. Those were probably cars left unlocked. People still do that. And she doesn't live in a "rich" area. Police response time is great. Just watch out for speeding tickets. There are so many cops there isn't enough for them to do. In other words there is much worse crime where I live now, in the safest big city in the U.S.: New York. Someone broke through the front door of our building and into an apartment downstairs last year. And there has been a recent rash of gang-related shootings at the projects a 3 minute walk away, with something like five people shot the past month.

I'm not sure where we'd end up if we moved to the area, but Grosse Pointe is high on our shortlist.

[rex]

I agree with Bust. Property crime happens everywhere. Ive had cars broken into in Waterford, Royal Oak, and Ferndale. I never hear gunshots where i live now in Farmington Hills but twice in the last 5 years someone tried to get in. Once in the middle of the night someone tried the back door. I only know because i was fixing a sandwich. The other time i found a girl in my garage. GP is unique. You find the same crazy cool old architecture you see in the Villages or Boston Edison. Police are about they biz and there are things going on over there. I was starting to consider moving to the cabbage patch myself if this job im being considered for touches down. Way people talk around here you might think GP is in a freefall which is laughable. I dont understand how the surrounding area in Detroit and especially to the west could be anything be quiet. Its like a prairie over there. Who is left to cause a ruckus?

[rex]

I wont be giving neighborhood Detroit another shot any time soon. Been there, done that, got pistol whipped in bed, stripped naked and robbed at gunpoint not far from Whittier and 94. 2 cars stolen and another broken into and had to deal with the tragic aroma of decomposing dogs dumped in the alley. Had the police stop me once while walking to taco bell around 2pm and tell me its not safe for me to be walking around there.

[softailrider]

In my opinion Grosse Pointe is one of the best values in the country. Beautiful homes, great schools, incredible parks, services for families and the elderly, the lake, and a shorter drive downtown or even to Canada than from some parts of Detroit. It has cute business districts that have recently only been getting better. And its increasing diversity is a good thing, as are the departures of any who disagree. When I grew up there prejudice and intolerance were problems. That's getting better, though those are problems still deeply ingrained in the region as a whole.

Homes in Grosse Pointe are much nicer at a fraction of the price than what's available in Royal Oak, Birmingham, or exurbs like Novi -- to say nothing of New York or the Chicago area. Those are fine places too [[except exurbs aren't my thing), but for the money, and for a return on investment in today's market, Grosse Pointe seems a better buy than them all. Prices will rise as the city improves, and I'm optimistic about that. Likewise as younger generations, and their deeper appreciation of urbanity, draw them to neighborhoods that are closer in. For people who enjoy the city or work there but want great schools and safety there's nowhere closer. There are also practical, economic, and environmental reasons why metropolitan areas can't keep spreading unchecked.

As far as spillover crime, it depends. Where my dad lived break-ins were starting to happen. But there was never worse that that. Where my mom lives the worst I've heard of is a stolen car, very rarely. Those were probably cars left unlocked. People still do that. And she doesn't live in a "rich" area. Police response time is great. Just watch out for speeding tickets. There are so many cops there isn't enough for them to do. In other words there is much worse crime where I live now, in the safest big city in the U.S.: New York. Someone broke through the front door of our building and into an apartment downstairs last year. And there has been a recent rash of gang-related shootings at the projects a 3 minute walk away, with something like five people shot the past month.

I'm not sure where we'd end up if we moved to the area, but Grosse Pointe is high on our shortlist.

There are a lot of areas around here that are secure and the housing is [[still) affordable.

[softailrider]

I agree with Bust. Property crime happens everywhere. Ive had cars broken into in Waterford, Royal Oak, and Ferndale. I never hear gunshots where i live now in Farmington Hills but twice in the last 5 years someone tried to get in. Once in the middle of the night someone tried the back door. I only know because i was fixing a sandwich. The other time i found a girl in my garage. GP is unique. You find the same crazy cool old architecture you see in the Villages or Boston Edison. Police are about they biz and there are things going on over there. I was starting to consider moving to the cabbage patch myself if this job im being considered for touches down. Way people talk around here you might think GP is in a freefall which is laughable. I dont understand how the surrounding area in Detroit and especially to the west could be anything be quiet. Its like a prairie over there. Who is left to cause a ruckus?

I think you're right. The area around E. Warren, Mack, Alter, Chalmers almost all the way West [[and South) is pretty empty.

[Danny]

Danny, please do not use richville, the moniker is very old and tired. As for the activity around GP, I live two blocks from Detroit and this summer has been VERY quiet. The automatic gun fire of 7 years ago is completely gone. The helicopter has only been by a few times this summer. There has not been house broken into in my neighborhood in at least 2 years and except for the fireworks going off every so often its been a little to quiet.

That's because your nice well kept up rich community has security and police protection. Thugs wearing hoodies straight outta Detroit are well aware it. They will find a away to sneak in, rob, shoot kill anyone who stands in their way. In fact during the last few years there been some robberies and hove invasions at the Grosse Pointes. Crime happens everywhere. Only we can do is prevent it by community action. It's alright that you and your neighborhood are holding up the fort near Mack and Alter Rd. Other folks who are living in Detroit-suburban borders are doing the same, but for how long. This is what happen after white flight from Detroit to the suburbs accelerated ten fold from 1967 to 2000. You get demarcation. Just across the street, A ghetto where a DEAD[[C) KRAK HEAD is lying down on the sidewalk. While a couple of rich preppy folks walking on the other side of the street ignoring the ghetto if it ever existed. Mack Ave. and Alter Rd. has became a wall without fences. The people from all over. [[ If it was some kind a Detroit-suburban neighborhood tour.) will be shocked in awe of what folks in Detroit in suburbs are doing to themselves. So please enjoy your home in Richville. I call it Richville because of millionaires and mansions being planted near Lake St. Clair. Detroit and suburbs can't have it.

[Gpwrangler]

Good God, same old blah blah blah. There needs to be a forum for veiled threats and anger toward the suburbs. Getting fucking old.