Is the Stephen Harper era over? YES. Canada elects Justin Trudeau.

[canuck]

Besides, oladub, this contract that seems to have been entered into before forever is a heavy debt to Canadian taxpayers, and as such falls into your said preoccupation with taxpayer burdens.

[Wesley Mouch]

You haven't convinced me that the nixing of F35 is an affront to the USA.

If you remove the caustic tone of the word 'affront', it'll be easier to discuss. I haven't followed this closely, but here's what I understand.

Canada entered into the F-35 project as a partner of the US along with other countries. You join the team. You invest. You get part of the work.

Dropping out of a joint project isn't polite. It leaves your partners with obligations. And we know post-Harper Canadians want to be polite.

Sometimes you shoudn't be polite -- like if a project is going off the rails. Then you should work to fix the problem as a partner, not bail out.

[[see f35.com list of partners:Australia, Canada, Denmark, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Turkey, the United Kingdom and the United States. )

[oladub]

Yes well, reductio ad absurdum aside, how does a Canadian government contract with an American corporation become an attack on US citizens? Because the contract is for military equipment? Give me a little more gravy on your thought processes.

If you can't understand the concerns of workers who might lose their job making military equipment, I probably can't explain it to you.

Besides, oladub, this contract that seems to have been entered into before forever is a heavy debt to Canadian taxpayers, and as such falls into your said preoccupation with taxpayer burdens.

For the third time, I already addressed the concerns of Canadians in my post #50. I fully understand and appreciate that some Canadians to not want to pay for F-35'. However, try to remember, I was contrasting Mr. Trudeau's claim that he wanted to improve US Canadian relations although his first two acts saddled US workers and taxpayers. Whether or not Canadians don't want to pay for f-35s or contributed positively to WWI [[they did) is irrelevant to my point. I'm beginning to understand why Mark Steyn escaped Canada.

[Lowell]

I am not the only one to question the whole concept of continuing to develop manned fighter aircraft, especially with advances in UAV's that do not need to carry the weight and error-proneness of, ahem, humans. Such craft can maneuver at G forces the human body cannot sustain and can be [and are] piloted by pimply-faced nerds. Somehow the romance of top-gun superfit ace pilots duking it out in dogfights persists.

How DOD’s $1.5 Trillion F-35 Broke the Air Force

The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter is the most expensive, and possible the most error ridden, project in the history of the United States military. But DOD has sunk so much money into the F-35 — which is expected to cost $1.5 trillion over the 55-year life of the program — that the Pentagon deemed it "too big to fail" in 2010.

[canuck]

I am not the only one to question the whole concept of continuing to develop manned fighter aircraft, especially with advances in UAV's that do not need to carry the weight and error-proneness of, ahem, humans. Such craft can maneuver at G forces the human body cannot sustain and can be [and are] piloted by pimply-faced nerds. Somehow the romance of top-gun superfit ace pilots duking it out in dogfights persists.

How DOD’s $1.5 Trillion F-35 Broke the Air Force

Good point Lowell. Doesn't this remind you of other too big to fail situations where the bailout is as outrageous as the reasons for the initial failure. Fifteen thousand billion bucks. Vavavoom!

[Wesley Mouch]

If you can't understand the concerns of workers who might lose their job making military equipment, I probably can't explain it to you.



For the third time, I already addressed the concerns of Canadians in my post #50. I fully understand and appreciate that some Canadians to not want to pay for F-35'. However, try to remember, I was contrasting Mr. Trudeau's claim that he wanted to improve US Canadian relations although his first two acts saddled US workers and taxpayers. Whether or not Canadians don't want to pay for f-35s or contributed positively to WWI [[they did) is irrelevant to my point. I'm beginning to understand why Mark Steyn escaped Canada.

I get it. People have a hard time philosophical ideas when their hold a practical opinion to the contrary on an issue. I assume that inclination is true with me as well. It seems to be human nature.

Even if its a good idea to pull out and a bad idea to built this fighter jet and a bad idea to go to war ever -- it can still be harmful to US-Can relations to pull out of a project to which your previous government made a commitment.

[canuck]

If you can't understand the concerns of workers who might lose their job making military equipment, I probably can't explain it to you.



For the third time, I already addressed the concerns of Canadians in my post #50. I fully understand and appreciate that some Canadians to not want to pay for F-35'. However, try to remember, I was contrasting Mr. Trudeau's claim that he wanted to improve US Canadian relations although his first two acts saddled US workers and taxpayers. Whether or not Canadians don't want to pay for f-35s or contributed positively to WWI [[they did) is irrelevant to my point. I'm beginning to understand why Mark Steyn escaped Canada.

You see, I was just mentioning that the other day on another thread; everything depends on your source.

In the English Wikipedia article about Steyn, they mention that he lives mainly in New Hampshire. In the French version, He shares between a house in Quebec and New Hampshire. So I guess he hasn't totally "escaped" Canada.

[oladub]

You see, I was just mentioning that the other day on another thread; everything depends on your source.

In the English Wikipedia article about Steyn, they mention that he lives mainly in New Hampshire. In the French version, He shares between a house in Quebec and New Hampshire. So I guess he hasn't totally "escaped" Canada.

I didn't learn about either the F-35's or withdrawing fighters from Steyn. There are any number of sources.
Try CBC for the F-35 story or the Guardian for the withdrawal of fighters story
Probably every large news service in the US and Canada covered both stories.

I didn't know Steyn kept a place in Quebec but have read that his kids go to school in the US. Steyn is, of course, a self-exiled Canadian dissident who had enough of the thought police in Canada. As a writer, they cramped his style. I mentioned Steyn because it seemed like I had wandered into something irrational; some PC sort of thing where I had dared to question Canada's new Mr. Sunshine. The US and Canada each have their respective good points. The First Amendment is one such American charm.

[Wesley Mouch]

I didn't learn about either the F-35's or withdrawing fighters from Steyn. There are any number of sources.
Try CBC for the F-35 story or the Guardian for the withdrawal of fighters story
Probably every large news service in the US and Canada covered both stories.

I thought I read this in the Liberal Party's platform statement. It wasn't a secret. It was a policy statement.

...some PC sort of thing where I had dared to question Canada's new Mr. Sunshine. The US and Canada each have their respective good points. The First Amendment is one such American charm.

I trust that by PC you mean 'politcally correct' --- not 'Progressive Conservative', a label for what had been Harper's party, aka Tories.

[oladub]

Wesley, Good point about PC. Yes, I meant politically correct but while I'm here, I want to reassure our Canadian friends of either PC stripe that I dearly like Canada although I'm not yet ready to give Mr. Trudeau a thumbs up or even a Nobel Peace prize.

[ThunderTrap]

So much for Stephen Harper and his "tough on crime" stance. A Liberal Party strategist told me this week that in the 2011 election there was a party volunteer who was subsequently placed on probation for falsifying his security status and infiltrating secure areas around prominent politicos when he had no such status...and that 1 of their other campaign workers had come in from Oakland County,MI where she was more recently known as Inmate 399593 at the Oakland County Jail.