Bing to cut bus services

[stasu1213]

Bing will be foolish to cut DOT services when gas prices are high and more people are losing their jobs, and automobile for lack of funds to pay for the car notes and insurances. More and more people are catching busses in order to get from one place to another especially looking for jobs. Why destroy a system that could literally pay for itself from monies coming in from ridership.

[Stosh]

I don't see a source.

[rooms222]

Thanks Google News........

http://www.wwj.com/pages/4961236.php?

[Homer]

Don't blame Bing. He is just the puppet for Felon/Beckham and the Kwame Krew. The next four years should see Bing stepping down due to early senility setting in and a slow poisoning of the City by Felon/Beckham and his buddies.

[Buy American]

Unfortunately for the City of Detroit, there is nothing but more doom and gloom for it's future.

[jt1]

Unfortunately for the City of Detroit, there is nothing but more doom and gloom for it's future.

Replace Detroit with SE Michigan. It will be hard for many people to mock Detroit as SE Michigan is on it's way to following in the city's footsteps.

[Retroit]

... a system that could literally pay for itself from monies coming in from ridership.

Does it, though?

[hudkina]

The bus system doesn't pay for itself and is a huge drain on the city's general funds. SMART and DDOT need to be merged under a regional authority. There's absolutely no reason why the two systems need to be separate.

[Stosh]

Well, I hate to steal a theme from another thread, but Detroit [[and the region) has a sustainability problem. Seems as if there's going to be a showdown on the labor costs one way or the other.

With all the cuts in the auto industry, the idea that public employees would remain unscathed is amazing. Bing is doing what any CEO would do. Cut costs. Either cooperatively or not. It was within the power of the union to cooperate. They chose not to, now they complain?

These guys need to wake up to the new reality. The 350 million deficit isn't going to just disappear by wishing it away. Granted, cuts need to be made across the board. But dismissing efforts at a cooperative solution that retains jobs and helps the bottom line is not helpful.

The unions need to survive to fight another day. They won't if the city declares bankruptcy.

[DetroitDad]

Well, I hate to steal a theme from another thread, but Detroit [[and the region) has a sustainability problem. Seems as if there's going to be a showdown on the labor costs one way or the other.

With all the cuts in the auto industry, the idea that public employees would remain unscathed is amazing. Bing is doing what any CEO would do. Cut costs. Either cooperatively or not. It was within the power of the union to cooperate. They chose not to, now they complain?

These guys need to wake up to the new reality. The 350 million deficit isn't going to just disappear by wishing it away. Granted, cuts need to be made across the board. But dismissing efforts at a cooperative solution that retains jobs and helps the bottom line is not helpful.

The unions need to survive to fight another day. They won't if the city declares bankruptcy.

You can steal it, you are 100% right. Being a Monday morning quarterback here, I will say Bing is a fool if he cuts transit across the board. I know Stosh is not replying to my posts after we got in an argument in the Suburbs are Unsustainable thread, but I would love to know what others think about this move. Much like the village idea, transit should maybe be cut off in certain areas and strengthened in others, with incentives for people in more depopulated or less centralized areas of the city to move to centers with real strengthened transit.

The only way I see Detroit improving is through selective cutting of services in certain areas, or through total collapse. By total collapse I mean state takeovers, relocalization of services [[to something similar to how new townships start out), cutting taxes and eliminating services, or changing to a more country type model in heavily depopulated areas [[you pay for or perform your own services, but pay less in taxes). Home prices already are cheap enough to attract home owners to replace renters and care about the area again, it seems like it is the combination poor city services and high taxes that are really driving people away.

[Stosh]

You can steal it, you are 100% right. Being a Monday morning quarterback here, I will say Bing is a fool if he cuts transit across the board. I know Stosh is not replying to my posts after we got in an argument in the Suburbs are Unsustainable thread, but I would love to know what others think about this move. Much like the village idea, transit should maybe be cut off in certain areas and strengthened in others, with incentives for people in more depopulated or less centralized areas of the city to move to centers with real strengthened transit.

The only way I see Detroit improving is through selective cutting of services in certain areas, or through total collapse. By total collapse I mean state takeovers, relocalization of services [[to something similar to how new townships start out), cutting taxes and eliminating services, or changing to a more country type model in heavily depopulated areas [[you pay for or perform your own services, but pay less in taxes). Home prices already are cheap enough to attract home owners to replace renters and care about the area again, it seems like it is the combination poor city services and high taxes that are really driving people away.

I changed my mind.

Read my post above from 9:30 with the links. That should give you something to think about. The heavy lifting's been done, all that's needed was a vote.

[DetroitDad]

I changed my mind.

Read my post above from 9:30 with the links. That should give you something to think about. The heavy lifting's been done, all that's needed was a vote.

Yes, I've been attending many of the transit meetings for awhile. A lot of people are still strongly against increasing transit funding in Michigan, apparently. The situation has gotten much better.

I do wonder what might happen if a large amount, lets say 15-30% of the [[former) middle class can't afford to drive anymore. Would there be more support for mass transit? What would happen to all the indifference to the insane amounts we spend on roads and freeways? If you couldn't or didn't use them, would you be okay subsidizing them?

[Russix]

The bus system doesn't pay for itself and is a huge drain on the city's general funds. SMART and DDOT need to be merged under a regional authority. There's absolutely no reason why the two systems need to be separate.

First, it’s not a drain, it’s an operating expense. Less than 40% of the citizens in the "Motor City" own cars so I do believe the bus system is the main artery of the city's economy. A SMART and DDOT merger would only drain resources from one to prop up the other depending on who’s in worse shape. That’s a reason, here's another: Suburbanites bitch profusely when any of their tax dollars are spent on the city. Imagine what the bus map would look like after you merged the systems and local communities started having votes on their bus millages. You would have a lot more fucking Livonias, Lathrup Villages, and Cranbrooks dropping off the map. Merging them looks good number wise on paper, but you have to consider racism, classism and isolationism in order to make things work around here.

For Bing to threaten cutting bus service right before an election is political suicide. Besides if Kriminal Kwame couldn’t do it then there’s very little chance that Bing’s Secret Covenant can either.

[Patrick]

Everything needs to be cut down in Detroit...all expenses. Detroit is broke.

[Retroit]

Here's an alternative: raise the fares enough so that they can pay for the cost of providing bus service.

[Russix]

Here's an alternative: raise the fares enough so that they can pay for the cost of providing bus service.

You do know that’s a 215% fare increase? Considering that a really really optimistic farebox figure at most brings in 30% of operating expenses.

[Retroit]

No, Russix, I didn't know that. If that's what needs to be done, so be it. Would Detroit consider lowering property taxes 70% in order to keep people living in Detroit?

[davewindsor]

Here's an alternative: raise the fares enough so that they can pay for the cost of providing bus service.

Or, reduce the number of runs in a day and make those runs longer and have a small fare increase.. If bus service to a particular stop is every 15 mins, raise it to every 30 mins. If every half an hour, raise it to an hour. Then you can take a bunch of buses out of service and hand out layoff slips. Service is not cancelled, but it just doesn't come as often.

[48202]

My rough calculation is that it would be a $4.25 fare per ride. That would really go over well.

[stasu1213]

If the city have a 4.25 bus fare then let that be a 24hour bus pass so a rider could jump on or off the bus for $4.25 cents. Let the regular one way fare stay the same. Senior citizens should not pay but have an id or something. They had already paid enough so let us not take more from them.

[JVLIVS]

My rough calculation is that it would be a $4.25 fare per ride. That would really go over well.

That might as well be a gallon of gas-which could go a heck of a lot longer than a mere bus ride.....

Just one man's opinion!

[48202]

That might as well be a gallon of gas-which could go a heck of a lot longer than a mere bus ride.....

Just one man's opinion!

Jvlis,
Are you advocating $4.25 per gallon for gasoline as a way to encourage use of mass transportation? Raise taxes on gas and use the proceeds to subsidize the busses?

[Rocko]

Detroitmale - you got it! Outsource DPL and DPW to get the work done and the utility systems up to a state of moderate good repair... indeed lights out for years, poles lying and fouling sidewalks, repairs not being made, potholes not being repaired....

[Danny]

Some folks just want to create DOOM for Detroit, the suburbs and its citizens. That's the cost of capitalism. When GREED gets into the hearts of men, corporations die and so regionalization.

Now for cutting D-Dot bus service, its a terrible ideal. Detroiters will put up a recall notice for Bing and others. However Mayor Bing is just a former old 60 year old Detroit Piston Basketball Player with economic skills and NO political priciples. You Detroiters pick him so deal with it. It's better to have a guy who do can risky business than to have a guy who can throw Manoogian parties. Most Detroiters and suburbanites are still living in darkness and isolationism rather than going for the light and progress. Detroit is what it is today because we the people have created this xenophobic and corrupted mess.

Detroit will NEVER going to be like New York City, Chicago, Minneapolis, Indianapolis, Columbus, Atlanta, Washington D.C. Portland, Buffalo, Seattle, Los Angeles, San Franicisco, Dallas, San Antonio, Austin, Houston, Atlanta, Boston, Philadephia, St Paul. Half my family left Detroit to Seattle because they like the way the city is handling them. But I'm staying until the opportunity comes. Even I have to suffer through the Ghettos of Detroit dodging spookies, DEAD [[C)KRAK HEADS and po'folks and schizoblacks and mutants. Everyone get use to it. Detroit is one Great Depression city. We're stuck in the year 1929 while the U.S. is in its 21st century [[2009). The ONLY way to fix this city is the people with clean hearts. The people must change for themselves first, then they can change their neighborhood and take action.

[48202]

Clarification -
$180,198,246 yearly budget = $15,016,520 per month
$15,016,520 per month / 3,562,701 riders [[May '08 actual) = approx. $4.25 per rider