park avenue hotel implosion

[Honky Tonk]

Years ago I had friends that lived @ The Crosswinds. What a PITA that was getting in and out during Tiger games, not to mention all the folks looking for free parking. I never could understand why someone would want to live next to a bar, sports arena, or in Eastern Mark-Up.

[Zacha341]

^^^ ! "Eastern Mark-Up"! I had to think about what you meant for a second! It's too early for your shananigans HT.

[Bham1982]

Years ago I had friends that lived @ The Crosswinds. What a PITA that was getting in and out during Tiger games, not to mention all the folks looking for free parking. I never could understand why someone would want to live next to a bar, sports arena, or in Eastern Mark-Up.

But I thought everyone wanted to live next to sports arenas. Isn't that the claim from Ilitch and his enablers? Build a hockey arena, and everyone will want to live there, just like everyone likes to live next to JLA, Comerica, Ford Field, Michigan Stadium, Spartan Stadium, the Palace, Madison Square Garden, Yankee Stadium, Wembley Stadium, Stade de France, etc. [[basically no one).

[CrashDummy]

But I thought everyone wanted to live next to sports arenas. Isn't that the claim from Ilitch and his enablers? Build a hockey arena, and everyone will want to live there, just like everyone likes to live next to JLA, Comerica, Ford Field, Michigan Stadium, Spartan Stadium, the Palace, Madison Square Garden, Yankee Stadium, Wembley Stadium, Stade de France, etc. [[basically no one).

I want to live next to an arena. I used to live right next to JLA, also. The only thing that sucked about it was that there wasn't MORE going on around that area and the isolation because of the freeway.

[canuck]

But I thought everyone wanted to live next to sports arenas. Isn't that the claim from Ilitch and his enablers? Build a hockey arena, and everyone will want to live there, just like everyone likes to live next to JLA, Comerica, Ford Field, Michigan Stadium, Spartan Stadium, the Palace, Madison Square Garden, Yankee Stadium, Wembley Stadium, Stade de France, etc. [[basically no one).

There is a 50 storey Tour des Canadiens being built basically atop the Bell Center in Montreal. Across the street is another 50 floor condo in construction and a 40 storey one next to it. The company building the Tour des Canadiens has started selling twin 50 storey towers next to the first one on St Antoine street. In all, there are about 7 40+floor condos and hotels being built within 2 blocks of the Hockey arena.

Unfortunately, years ago when the Expos decamped to Washington, the only available space big enough to accomodate the proposed Labatt's baseball stadium was sold and is now scheduled for office and condo developments. Living anywhere downtown means having to accept density. The price to pay is noise and traffic. Wembley stadium is in a residential area and so is Parc des Princes in Paris. It is situated in one of the most expensive Paris boroughs; the 16th arrondissement. The area around Wembley is experiencing a residential building boom. Nationals Park in Washington it seems is also attracting mixed condo-retail projects close to the stadium.
Toronto's hockey and baseball venues are surrounded by high density residential projects.

The key to making this work better is ensuring that demands can be met for car drivers and transit users at relevant times.

[Bham1982]

There is a 50 storey Tour des Canadiens being built basically atop the Bell Center in Montreal. Across the street is another 50 floor condo in construction and a 40 storey one next to it. The company building the Tour des Canadiens has started selling twin 50 storey towers next to the first one on St Antoine street. In all, there are about 7 40+floor condos and hotels being built within 2 blocks of the Hockey arena.

The Bell Centre is in the heart of downtown Montreal. Are you claiming that people want to live in a prime neighborhood in Montreal's core because of a hockey arena? Highly unlikely.

More likely they are living there in spite of the hassle of a major event venue in their midst. People like to live in nice neighborhoods with good schools and great restaurants and parks and amenities; not parking lots for drunken stadium goers. An arena won't kill a desirable neighborhood, but it also won't increase desirability from a residential standpoint.

[detroitbob]

Years ago I had friends that lived @ The Crosswinds. What a PITA that was getting in and out during Tiger games, not to mention all the folks looking for free parking. I never could understand why someone would want to live next to a bar, sports arena, or in Eastern Mark-Up.

I have friends who live on Winder, Alfred and Adelaide and their biggest complaint is the pissing in the bushes and on garage doors etc...littering is not the problem it once was and the police and security patrols have improved. The security cameras throughout the area are coming with streetlight and signage improvements.

[canuck]

The Bell Centre is in the heart of downtown Montreal. Are you claiming that people want to live in a prime neighborhood in Montreal's core because of a hockey arena? Highly unlikely.

More likely they are living there in spite of the hassle of a major event venue in their midst. People like to live in nice neighborhoods with good schools and great restaurants and parks and amenities; not parking lots for drunken stadium goers. An arena won't kill a desirable neighborhood, but it also won't increase desirability from a residential standpoint.

Yes, the downtown package is important, but the arena buzz is not foreign to that. People want to be there, a certain kind of clientele is ripe for a move from the outlying neighborhoods or towns to avoid the bridges, and other nuisances. I am about a fifteen minute walk from the Bell Centre and I do most of my shopping for clothes, shoes, food downtown. The city is becoming better at handling new residents because there is still the competition from sprawly cities in the region who pack a punch just like the metro Detroit ones in terms of infrastructure. For me the lifestyle change has been a positive one. I am saving hundreds of hours in traffic yearly, and the cost of gas in Canada is worth doing something about. I am saving a couple of thou right there which I can then put in heating costs and taxes on my old house.

[Honky Tonk]

I have friends who live on Winder, Alfred and Adelaide and their biggest complaint is the pissing in the bushes and on garage doors etc...littering is not the problem it once was and the police and security patrols have improved. The security cameras throughout the area are coming with streetlight and signage improvements.

Yeah, I love the smell of fermented urine first thing in the morning. I forgot about that and the occasional discovery of an unknown feces. I can understand and approve of law enforcement perusing criminal activity, but do they have the resources to commit to a bladder patrol? Oh wait, it's Illitch and Midtown, get the copter up there, stat!

[Honky Tonk]

And this just in...

http://motorcitymuckraker.com/2015/0...8330-192658353

[night-timer]

Please put a video camera on a tripod and film this event for those of us who can't be there.

[G-DDT]

Doesn't anyone have any interesting or good memories of this place to relate? I, for one, would like to hear them.

[Zads07]

Was down there at Second and Ledyard on Saturday morning about 7:45 am. Was very sad to see the building fall, but what a sight to see. You could feel the explosives going off right through your chest.

Here's a photo I took of the old girl falling.

[Zacha341]

Awesome view for certain!

A view from a drone.

http://www.freep.com/videos/news/loc...7/11/30011639/

[downtownguy]

I have friends who live on Winder, Alfred and Adelaide and their biggest complaint is the pissing in the bushes and on garage doors etc...littering is not the problem it once was and the police and security patrols have improved. The security cameras throughout the area are coming with streetlight and signage improvements.

I lived a couple blocks east of the Fox shortly after Ilitch re-opened it. People were always pissing on our stoop or against the building. A couple of years before, I dated a gal that lived a couple of blocks south of Tiger Stadium. Same lack of respect. As these were almost always white people, many of whom I'd guess came from the burbs, their common reaction when they were caught mid-piss was especially disturbing. They would usually act surprised [[perhaps not expecting to find middle-class white folks living where they were relieving themselves), become apologetic and say something really dumb like, "I didn't know people like you lived here."

[Honky Tonk]

They would usually act surprised [[perhaps not expecting to find middle-class white folks living where they were relieving themselves), become apologetic and say something really dumb like, "I didn't know people like you lived here."

That's not dumb, that's revealing.

[Danny]

Good-bye putting on the Ritz!!! Hello Sports Area. Sacrifices has to be made for progress.

[bust]

To 99.9% of folks visiting the 'arena district' what will be important are streetscaping for those islands where Clifford and Cass come together as well as a lot of other issues with existing structures such as a few houses on Cass and other building between Sproat and Temple.

Also, traffic flow on Cass, Henry, etc. as well as south of the Fisher as well as convenient, easy to exit parking.

I was in town over the 4th and spent a lot of time downtown. I had to park on W. Montcalm by Clifford for a couple Tigers games. $20 a pop. Last year 10 or 15 bucks on Woodward by Sproat.

And the traffic flow behind the Fox is not good. At least on the old Woodward dirt lots [[Henry - Temple) it was a piece of cake to get out onto Woodward northbound or even Cass, etc. even though they were an urban wasteland.

I like most of the posts I've read from you emu steve, but here your concerns are all about driving to the game, cheap and convenient parking, and getting quickly out, with a nice view along the way. We should be building a city for people to live in, not to visit only for the game.

Arenas don't make good neighbors. Let's seek to mitigate the inevitable problem that arises when massive structures are built that sit empty 90% of the time, and flood the vicinity with people with no connection to the neighborhood the other 10%. For the "arena district" to be anything close to the thriving neighborhood the Ilitches ask us to imagine in their public relations dream we need the kinds of commerce, amenities, and services that will attract more people to live there full time. Otherwise the parking lots and old empty buildings will be replaced by another kind of wasteland flooded by occasional traffic, a few new buildings that still sit empty most of the time, and if we’re lucky a few trees.

Maybe you didn’t mean to, but it sounds like it’s your opinion that for 99.9% of the people, yourself included, that’s fine. That's not good enough for me.

[emu steve]

I was speaking of one facet of sports and entertainment facilities: getting to and from the events.

I believe I have posted on a lot of other related facets, e.g., Temple Street, and the need to re-develop structures [[e.g., Alhambra apartments, Hotel American, etc.), streetscaping, etc. I'd love to see other commercial establishments e.g., CVS, etc. to make the area nicer.

Haven't posted it in a long, long time, but I may have once posted that re-development of that area is good for Cass Tech students who spend their days in what was a pretty unappealing area.

I do believe that the Cass Tech school is an important stakeholder in the area.

I've tried to view that area as a 'little city' with all that it entails, a visually appealing area for folks to live and visit.

[bust]

I was speaking of one facet of sports and entertainment facilities: getting to and from the events.

I believe I have posted on a lot of other related facets, e.g., Temple Street, and the need to re-develop structures [[e.g., Alhambra apartments, Hotel American, etc.), streetscaping, etc. I'd love to see other commercial establishments e.g., CVS, etc. to make the area nicer.

Haven't posted it in a long, long time, but I may have once posted that re-development of that area is good for Cass Tech students who spend their days in what was a pretty unappealing area.

I do believe that the Cass Tech school is an important stakeholder in the area.

I've tried to view that area as a 'little city' with all that it entails, a visually appealing area for folks to live and visit.

Thanks for the clarification, Steve. We agree.