Failure of Gas Station to accept Canadian Credit card causes robbery? Man Sues.

[ThunderTrap]

I am also wondering as to what a big problem this is...stolen cards being used at gas stations. Boy, I just grabbed a guy's wallet...let's run and gas up rather than use the card to stock up at Walmart. And, if the card hasn't been reported stolen, the merchant's liability is nil so long as it was inserted and the magnetic strip read and an approval was generated, not just inputted by hand as on a website...But, in the eyes of the bean-counters, better that someone gets robbed and injured than even $30 be diverted from the CEO's coke and hooker fund.

[Zacha341]

I hear that. I have to give BoA credit for alerting me about my debit cards fraudulent use before I noticed it was stolen. I got a text about half an hour as they deemed it suspicious that I 'seemed' to be getting gas every 10 or 15 minutes!! I confirmed and they shut it down and refunded all moneys stolen. Requesting a police report and a form filled out.

The gas station that was allowing criminals to ply my card was rough, in a bad areas with folks hanging out - running their 'hustle'. I complained to the station about allowing this kind of 'business' and they were nonchalant. Like whatever.

[SyGolden48236]

Read the article. It specifically states that the owner has "gone to Yemen for 3 months". Can you think of ANY reason to go to Yemen for even 1 day? That had to be the most serious PR error of all time...for the dumb-arse who said that to even admit to going to Yemen. Why not just say "he's away"? They're the ones who made sure to tell us all that he was in Yemen, the anal tract of the globe. Is he a citizen or just a passerby investor? I would hope that the NSA takes a look at this. Has anyone in or from Yemen ever done good for America?

Oy vey! You are not a rational person. You are speaking from over-wrought emotions rather than from a reasoned and educated position. Perhaps the man has family in Yemen. There are many reasons for him to visit his homeland.

And whether he is indeed a U.S. citizen or a "passerby investor", as you termed it, is irrelevant. He has a right to own a business here and he is not responsible for the act of some scumbag hoodrat who decided to rob an innocent traveler rather than earn an honest living.

[SyGolden48236]

I am also wondering as to what a big problem this is...stolen cards being used at gas stations. Boy, I just grabbed a guy's wallet...let's run and gas up rather than use the card to stock up at Walmart. And, if the card hasn't been reported stolen, the merchant's liability is nil so long as it was inserted and the magnetic strip read and an approval was generated, not just inputted by hand as on a website...But, in the eyes of the bean-counters, better that someone gets robbed and injured than even $30 be diverted from the CEO's coke and hooker fund.

Again with the histrionics and irresponsible unfounded allegations. Are you trying to will the "Anti-establishment, I hate everything and everyone successful, hipster of the year" award sponsored by the "occupy" folks? The real world is so unlike what you perceive it to be.

[SyGolden48236]

But what really makes me angry is how Big Business puts no value on life. They could care less if 1 of their customers gets injured, has his life ruined, dies...of course, we all have to cry when they lose money and need government bailouts...we all have to cry if a bank is robbed [[Heaven help us, how will they ever replace the piddly amount of cash that was taken)...but a client gets robbed??? Not our problem, hope you die you miserable piece of crap. But if our corporate jet crashes and our CEO dies? What a tragedy! Hypocritical basturds. As a previous poster stated, the station should have had insurance...so why not just have the insurance settle and move on??? This is a case where the negative coverage for both companies will ultimately cost them more than had they been proactive from the start [[i.e. a sign by the pump, a mailing to cardholders).

Ah yes, some low-life scumbag hoodrat robs somebody and it is the fault of those evil, anti-Christ corporations and their doody head CEOs. They are pure evil incarnate and should be banished to the fiery pits of Hell.

Guess what, in the real world people get robbed all the time and it is not the fault of a corporation or a CEO. The fault lies purely with the filthy criminal scumbag who perpetrated the crime.

I know, the latest fad among the hipster crowd is to denigrate corporations and their CEOs and to blame them for everything you don't like in the world.

Loony conspiracy theories can be so cool, can't they? They make cool topics for conversations at the coffee shop, or over a "craft" beer, or on your blog or Twitter. But this is nonsense.

[ThunderTrap]

So, to summarize the beliefs of Sy Golden, we shouldn't cry for the victim, but if the "Big Oil" gas station gets robbed, we should cry. Right. I am sure that you are also happy that BP [[wow, the same company involved here) also decimated thousands of people along the Gulf of Mexico...all the while their then-CEO was out on a yacht with hookers.

The gas station supposedly has insurance. They should simply turn this matter over to their insurers, rather than stand in the way of a settlement. What it boils down to is that they preferred to save on stolen gas over the life of a customer. Period.

[ThunderTrap]

As a matter of national security, gas stations should only be owned by US citizens. If this station is owned by a Yemeni national, then that should be a matter for investigation by the NSA.

[SyGolden48236]

So, to summarize the beliefs of Sy Golden, we shouldn't cry for the victim, but if the "Big Oil" gas station gets robbed, we should cry. Right. I am sure that you are also happy that BP [[wow, the same company involved here) also decimated thousands of people along the Gulf of Mexico...all the while their then-CEO was out on a yacht with hookers.

The gas station supposedly has insurance. They should simply turn this matter over to their insurers, rather than stand in the way of a settlement. What it boils down to is that they preferred to save on stolen gas over the life of a customer. Period.

Either your reading comprehension skills are sorely lacking or you simply like to twist other people's words to suit your agenda, or perhaps a little of both.

I never said that nobody should feel sorry for the victim. What I said, and that you chose to ignore due to your ridiculous visceral hatred of corporations, was that neither BP nor the gas station owner is at fault in this situation. The fault lies solely with the filthy hoodrat that perpetrated the crime. Period.

And again with the silly childish accusations. What proof do you have that the CEO of BP was on a yacht with prostitutes while the oil spill was unfolding?

[SyGolden48236]

As a matter of national security, gas stations should only be owned by US citizens. If this station is owned by a Yemeni national, then that should be a matter for investigation by the NSA.

How do you know that the station owner is not a naturalized U.S. citizen? Even if he/she is not, it is not a crime for a foreigner to own a business in this country. Your racism is stunning.

If you, a foreigner, a Canadian, ever open a business here should we demand that the N.S.A investigate you?

[Honky Tonk]

And again with the silly childish accusations. What proof do you have that the CEO of BP was on a yacht with prostitutes while the oil spill was unfolding?

Oh for the love of God, Sy, that stereotype has been shown in countless "made for TV" sitcoms, of course it's true.

[Wesley Mouch]

...all the while their then-CEO was out on a yacht with hookers. ...

Its important to add that the hookers weren't US citizens.

Does anyone know if its true that yacht was owned by Pope Francis, a Presbyterian Minister, Jesse Jackson, and the head of Greenpeace?

[downtownguy]

As a matter of national security, gas stations should only be owned by US citizens. If this station is owned by a Yemeni national, then that should be a matter for investigation by the NSA.

It's interesting that you have so much to say on how we should run our businesses over here when your Dyes profile says you live in Cambridge Ontario.

Personally, I think we [[Americans) should just not allow Canadians to buy gas at OUR gas stations. [[My apologies to all the other Canadians whom I adore, with the exception of Don Cherry.)

[ThunderTrap]

http://www.bbc.com/news/10359120 re BP CEO choosing to thumb his nose at the US by heading out on his yacht...

[ThunderTrap]

If someone is injured on my premises, I simply hand it over to my insurance company. For BP not to do the same, either they self-insure or they simply want to stonewall the process, and they don't give a rat's arse if their customer's life is ruined.

[Richard]

http://www.bbc.com/news/10359120 re BP CEO choosing to thumb his nose at the US by heading out on his yacht...

You post saying the guy was on a yacht with hookers doing coke but then provide a link that states he was with his family,its not very nice to call ones wife a hooker or even bring his family into the conversation.

A business has a responsibility to provide a reasonable amount of protection or safety to their customers I do not believe a random act of violence is considered a foreseeable occurrence.

Here [[Tampa) at the Rock Casino which has parking garage security and their own police force,caught on camera a thug pulling up in a car and with a weapon grabbing a young ladies purse,his plate was removed,so even though there was plenty of security it still happened.

Hold corporations responsible but be responsible in ones personal actions,there were thousands that profited from that oil spill that had nothing to do with it but took advantage of the situation.

Part time waitress getting checks for $30,000,a doctor that collected in excess of $60,000 who was not effected in the spill in anyway,those are the ones that I know personally and there were many more.But corporations are evil even though they are made up of people they are representative of those they serve.

[SyGolden48236]

If someone is injured on my premises, I simply hand it over to my insurance company. For BP not to do the same, either they self-insure or they simply want to stonewall the process, and they don't give a rat's arse if their customer's life is ruined.

It is not the gas station owner's fault that this unfortunate Canadian tourist was robbed. It is not because he had to go into the store that he was robbed. Even if he had been able to use his card at the pump there is a high likelihood that the filthy hoodrat scumbag that robbed him would've robbed him at the pump.

And how has this man's life been ruined, as you claim? There you go with your histrionics again.

It is horrible that that unfortunate man was robbed. Nobody wishes that on anyone. But that happens in the ghetto many many times a day. It is a fact of life in Detroit. That is why those who know better avoid going into Detroit whenever possible and they also certainly know that YOU...NEVER...BUY...GAS...IN..DETROIT......EVER!

I foolishly stopped at a gas station on the Grosse Pointe / Detroit border two years ago to fill up when I was in a hurry to get to the airport . It was around 2;00 in the afternoon in broad daylight. Some filthy scumbag approached me and offered to pump my gas for me, which I politely declined. He then said, in a threatening and menacing tone of voice, "then maybe you can give me what you got on you". I opened my suit coat and revealed what I had in my shoulder holster and he quickly turned around and ran off and disappeared into the squalor of the ghetto.

I have not purchased gas in Detroit since then and I have forbidden my wife and kids to do so as well.

I did not even consider blaming the gas station owner because it was not his fault or Marathon Oil Company's fault either. Also, my life was not ruined by this incident either.

[ThunderTrap]

As I posted earlier, the station owner and/or BP should have simply said, "file a claim with our insurance company"...that's what they have insurance for...and not obfuscate the matter with excuses and denials. They are probably worried that their insurance company, upon finding out that there are 70+ pages of incidents in the area, would mandate them to have had cameras installed, maybe a security guard on-site. I am sure they were not running to the insurance company and providing them with that info, but the insurance company should have been asking those questions and didn't. I am just as angry at Canadian Tire, 1 of those quasi-banks that likes to call itself a bank but is really only a credit card issuance mill like MBNA and Capital One. Other banks were informing their cardholders about this work-around of 3 digits and 2 zeros...but not them. I would not be surprised that an attorney enjoins them in a class action suit on behalf of all their cardholders [[just as 3 banks were taken on a class action based on foreign currency exchange rates on credit card transactions). I do not cry for a bank...they self-insure and do things on the cheap, and will only pay up when forced to.

[Zacha341]

Good points! Timing of and how you respond when accused of something can speak to how you're judged -- guilty or not.

As I posted earlier, the station owner and/or BP should have simply said, "file a claim with our insurance company"...that's what they have insurance for...and not obfuscate the matter with excuses and denials.

[ThunderTrap]

Everything in life is PR-based. Both BP and Canadian Tire chose to make themselves look much worse than it could have been. In the case of BP, refer it to their insurers, without all the buckpassing and saying "we only sold them the fuel" implying that they have no control over the use of their logo and service standards, and then, for no logical reason, divulging "gone to Yemen" vs a simple "he's away". In the case of MasterCard, the franchisor blaming the issuing bank for not advising cardholders...in effect, throwing them under the bus, and providing sufficient evidence that the bank knew but did nothing about informing their clientele, thereby making the case against them. 2 organizations = 2 PR fails.

[Honky Tonk]

69 posts. It's BP's fault, it's Canadian Tire's fault, it's VISA's fault, it's the sleeper cell gas station owners fault, but somehow the blame still hasn't landed on a handful of gun toting thugs that take what they want, by force, and are screwing life up for the rest of us.

[ThunderTrap]

The DPD only solve 10% of the crimes in the city. IF they caught the culprit, unless they killed him in an exchange of gunfire, how exactly is that going to help the victim? The station and MasterCard could have negated the POSSIBILITY of the crime by a)- posting a sign on how to use the pump with a Canadian credit card; b)- advising their cardholders when they knew there was a problem but didn't bother to tell anyone how to circumvent it. There was little to no cost for these solutions. If someone had robbed the station, the sanctimonius BP PR hacks would be crying foul...robbing one of their customers, completely expendable. They can't have it both ways. Again...they SHOULD have had insurance...and the proper response would have simply been -- file a claim with our insurers. Period. Saying that they have no control over the brand and logo and service marks doesn't wash...just try opening up a station with a BP name on it and see how far that gets you. Saying that the owner is in Yemen for 3 months = not a smart thing to say. MasterCard saying that the banks knew and should have told their cardholders = an admission of guilt showing the bank was negligent, that they had the information from their central franchisor but failed to divulge it to their cardholders, which would be enough to expand the case from 1 aggrieved individual to a class action suit on behalf of all MasterCard holders.

[davewindsor]

... Other banks were informing their cardholders about this work-around of 3 digits and 2 zeros...but not them. ...

I have Canadian credit cards from a bunch of different institutions other than Canadian Tire, MBNA and Capital One and this is the first time I heard of the 3 digits and 2 zeros. When I buy gas in the city, I always pay cash because it's cheaper to pay with cash than credit card--unlike in Canada where cash and credit payment for gas is the same rate [[plus the credit cards ding me with an overpriced exchange rate service fee). I also buy my gas at stations on Jefferson, not around 7 mile. With Canadian license plates, he's just asking for trouble [[because robbers know Canadians are unarmed). How is it he can be so unprepared when at the border they ask so many questions about where you are going in the US and how long you're going to be at those points?

I don't see the basis for a lawsuit. If someone googles "Detroit", they're going to find tonnes of links to anecdotes and data of Detroit as a whole being a dangerous, crime ridden city. There's an assumption of risk the moment someone sets foot in this city. It's one thing if someone got robbed in Somerset Collection in Troy, but a gas station in the evening in Detroit [[at seven mile?!). And the "victim" drove back to his hotel room in Troy after [[so it sounds like he was well aware of the risks of being in the city which is why he never got a hotel room in the COD to begin with).

If his purpose as a radio journalist is to make people aware of the issue such as three digits and two zeros and that the city is not as safe as Dan Gilbert keeps trying to make it look like, I get it and I'll commend him for that, but if he's actually going to pay a lawyer to file a statement of claim against the gas station, I can't see how a judge could quantify any monetary damages. It makes no sense and sounds outrageous. Insurance in Detroit is already quite expensive. As a business owner, they would also have to deal with the added expense of bandits robbing them constantly vs. operating in the suburbs and now they have to deal with the costs of frivolous third party lawsuits? It just gets worse and worse for an investor. Why would any entrepreneur want to invest in this city?

[ThunderTrap]

The nice thing about the American judicial system is that there's no dearth of Detroit attorneys willing to take on an injury case on a contingency basis. Every second billboard on the highway is for a contingency case lawyer. Secondly, easy enough to compute damages...take what someone's earnings were before the case...figure out the days/weeks/months and continued residual legacy of reduced mobility...i.e. someone earns $100K/year. They miss 35% of work hours...hence $35K. Their mobility is reduced by 25% going forward...$25K x number of years until retirement. The station has to show that they provided a minimum level of security...not just a camera on their cashier, which would probably be more to prevent pilfering by the employee than based on any altruistic caring for the customers. The fact that MasterCard banks were not advising clients of the workaround, when they knew it internally, would make them very susceptible to a class action suit on behalf of all cardholders. The more we talk on here, the more it looks as if more liability should be attributed to MasterCard and the issuing banks [[the ones who TOLD the gas bars to put those types of pumps in, offered them lower merchant fees as an incentive, and then did not tell their cardholders how to use the pumps). I would be more than happy to have the banks pay out billions than to impact upon a [[perhaps) honest new American simply running a business...who SHOULD have been told by corporate on proper signage and how to deal with his Canadian clientele...the negligence most likely being within BP corporate for not telling their dealers how to operate than on small businessmen who might not otherwise have had a clue and depended on corporate for guidance and advice.

[davewindsor]

The nice thing about the American judicial system is that there's no dearth of Detroit attorneys willing to take on an injury case on a contingency basis. Every second billboard on the highway is for a contingency case lawyer.

We've got contingency case lawyers in Ontario too now and guess what? They often will not take a case if they know they are going to loose or there isn't case law to back up their claim. It costs a lot of money to file a lawsuit @$200+ an hour, so they're going to ask to be paid by the hour with a large upfront retainer or they are not going to take the case to court. I see plenty of these type of third party injury cases on TV court like Judge Brown, Judy, etc. and guess what, usually no lawyer for the plaintiff is present and they are often not awarded these kinds of damages.

Secondly, easy enough to compute damages...take what someone's earnings were before the case...figure out the days/weeks/months and continued residual legacy of reduced mobility...i.e. someone earns $100K/year. They miss 35% of work hours...hence $35K. Their mobility is reduced by 25% going forward...$25K x number of years until retirement.

You're not going to be able to quantify a loss of earnings in this case because the plaintiff states in the article that his occupation is as a journalist. In fact, his earnings would probably go up from the increased publicity of his name.

As for reduced mobility. He didn't get his arm blown off. He's not in a wheel chair. His mobility isn't reduced.

If he has medical expenses, he's obviously going to process himself through Canada's free Universal Health care system.

How can a judge quantify his damages?

The station has to show that they provided a minimum level of security...not just a camera on their cashier, which would probably be more to prevent pilfering by the employee than based on any altruistic caring for the customers.

I disagree. The gas station owner can say they pay taxes for the police to provide this function and it's the state's responsibility. The gas station didn't rob their customers. A robber that wasn't affiliated with the gas station did. Now, if the robber was a friend or associate of the employee or gas station owner, that might be a different story, but I haven't seen any evidence of that.

Plus, there's an assumption of risk when he enters the city. It's common knowledge that Detroit isn't a safe city, so he knew that entering the city. If a foreigner, say, an American, enters a warzone, say a rebel held area in the Ukraine, and gets injured around a gas station? Who's responsible? The gas station owner? How's this any different? He's a foreigner [[Canadian) entering the Detroit warzone [[there's plenty of youtube videos calling Detroit a warzone btw).

The fact that MasterCard banks were not advising clients of the workaround, when they knew it internally, would make them very susceptible to a class action suit on behalf of all cardholders.

They don't have to. They didn't issue a US Dollar Mastercard payable in US funds, but a Canadian Dollar Mastercard payable each month in Canadian funds. It's primary use is intended to be used in Canada. Just because it works in the US, doesn't mean that it was intended for the US market. If he wanted a card intended for use in the US, he should have used a card like the BMO US Dollar Mastercard. Canadian Tire doesn't offer a US Dollar Mastercard. Canadian Tire licenses this card to improve the sales at their Canadian Tire Stores and Canadian Tire doesn't operate any of their stores in the US. Canadian Tire even offers points towards purchases only at Canadian Tire stores when you use their card.

If customers use it outside Canada, then those customers are responsible for calling the credit card company on what the rules are to use it outside of Canada.

The more we talk on here, the more it looks as if more liability should be attributed to MasterCard and the issuing banks [[the ones who TOLD the gas bars to put those types of pumps in, offered them lower merchant fees as an incentive, and then did not tell their cardholders how to use the pumps). I would be more than happy to have the banks pay out billions than to impact upon a [[perhaps) honest new American simply running a business...who SHOULD have been told by corporate on proper signage and how to deal with his Canadian clientele...the negligence most likely being within BP corporate for not telling their dealers how to operate than on small businessmen who might not otherwise have had a clue and depended on corporate for guidance and advice.

But Americans already know how to use the pumps and it works for Americans. Why should American pumps be obligated to foreign customers in any way that didn't do their research? And how far should it go? Should signs on using the pumps also be written in Chinese for someone visiting from China or Swedish for someone visiting from Sweden? How many languages are required? How far does the warning sign obligation extend? Does the gas station need to know the rules for someone from the UK, China, Sweden and any other country too?

[Richard]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WcU4t6zRAKg