Heartless Attempt to Patch Roads by Making the Working Poor of Detroit & Michigan Pay

[Wesley Mouch]

Ah! I think that's called 'communism'. Am I wrong?

Except my friend John Galt, everyone is in the wealth redistribution [[WR) game.

Communists more want to eliminate private wealth. WR really is more socialist.

WR is a fact of life even in America. Entitlements provided by tax dollars already take lots of money from more wealthy to less wealthy.

So the question isn't so much whether we should redistribute, but how much. Lowell thinks any reduction in government-mandated redistribution is cold-hearted. I disagree. There are a lot of ways we can help those in need. Government-mandated wealth redistribution is probably the least effective tool in the toolbox.

Given a choice, I'd rather see Bill Gates help the poor. Thank God that he does. It shows us what can be done when government gets out of the way.

[Not In MI]

Except my friend John Galt, everyone is in the wealth redistribution [[WR) game.

Communists more want to eliminate private wealth. WR really is more socialist.

WR is a fact of life even in America. Entitlements provided by tax dollars already take lots of money from more wealthy to less wealthy.

So the question isn't so much whether we should redistribute, but how much. Lowell thinks any reduction in government-mandated redistribution is cold-hearted. I disagree. There are a lot of ways we can help those in need. Government-mandated wealth redistribution is probably the least effective tool in the toolbox.

Given a choice, I'd rather see Bill Gates help the poor. Thank God that he does. It shows us what can be done when government gets out of the way.

^ that is funny you mention Bill Gates helping the poor. A class mate of my daughter is a Gate Millennium Scholarship Winner. Funny thing is she was also NHS president who was caught for plagiarism but it was swept under the rug by the school system and given a second chance because they did not want the fact that they kicked a minority out of NHS to hit the media, etc. The school teachers were set to replace her as NHS president but the principal over ruled it after getting heat from central office.

She obtained the Gates scholarship by submitting on her paperwork that she is the child of single unemployed mother. What she did not state is that her dad is noted physician here who 100% supports the family and basically provides them with an upper middle class lifestyle.

This child has totally played the system. She is very good at test taking but otherwise is a intelligent as a piece of cardboard.

[downtownguy]

^ that is funny you mention Bill Gates helping the poor. A class mate of my daughter is a Gate Millennium Scholarship Winner. Funny thing is she was also NHS president who was caught for plagiarism but it was swept under the rug by the school system and given a second chance because they did not want the fact that they kicked a minority out of NHS to hit the media, etc. The school teachers were set to replace her as NHS president but the principal over ruled it after getting heat from central office.

She obtained the Gates scholarship by submitting on her paperwork that she is the child of single unemployed mother. What she did not state is that her dad is noted physician here who 100% supports the family and basically provides them with an upper middle class lifestyle.

This child has totally played the system. She is very good at test taking but otherwise is a intelligent as a piece of cardboard.

Yet when the third richest man in the state, worth more than $3 BILLION plays the system to get a $240 MILLION subsidy for his new arena, he's called a shrewd business person.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Yet when the third richest man in the state, worth more than $3 BILLION plays the system to get a $240 MILLION subsidy for his new arena, he's called a shrewd business person.

Few conservatives would seem to call it what it is - WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION. When the funds are redistributed UP, its "investment."

[Wesley Mouch]

Yet when the third richest man in the state, worth more than $3 BILLION plays the system to get a $240 MILLION subsidy for his new arena, he's called a shrewd business person.

Don't blame the business person. That is a shrewd move.

Blame the government. They have no business granting tax abatements whatsoever to anyone. They should be banned 100% everywhere for everyone, including non-profits.

[ABetterDetroit]

Instead of everybody grappling for a skinny piece of a stale old pie, can we just make more pies?

That is to say, REALLY make Michigan an attractive place to do business. Not just time-release band-aids on bad policies. I mean truly scare the beejesus out of Texas [[where I now live), Tennessee, etc. Sorry to say, but Michigan has a reputation of being pro-labor and anti-business, to the point of running businesses out of town. What business wants to relocate to that environment? We used to have so many small businesses in Detroit; it's become a nightmare just to start one now.

Kathy is spot on right here. It is a very competitive world, whether you like it or not that's just the way it is. Corporations and businesses equal jobs. If you chase them out of the state they will take their jobs and go where they are wanted and other states want those jobs badly so either compete or lose the jobs, simple as that. Seems to me that it should be obvious to anyone that has lived here for a while that the direct result of job loss is devestating.

Back to the topic of the earned income credit, it is nothing but a patch to a FUBAR personal tax system in this state. A needed patch to some folks but still a temporary patch that can always be messed with. What makes little sense to me is that needed tax reform for business was executed and nothing is being done on the personal tax system Michigan uses. It's so bad that on the proposal to hike the sales tax last May even the Governor said "this wasn't my first choice" and the rest of the politicians said "this is crap legislation but it is the best we will get". How stupid can they be? Fix the personal tax system just like you did the business tax, idiots.

[Wesley Mouch]

Kathy is spot on right here. It is a very competitive world, whether you like it or not that's just the way it is. ...

The 'inequality' racket is more about jealousy than economics. Many don't understand that you can increase the number of 'pies'. So instead they complain about how many pies someone else has baked. Better to get baking. Detroit really could stand to learn this.

Back to the topic of the earned income credit, it is nothing but a patch to a FUBAR personal tax system in this state. ...

EITC is a fine method for income redistribution. Probably the best. Its a minimum wage that doesn't benefit the wealthy working retirees with pension income. I don't understand your resistance. Of course I'm sure the tax system could be improved too. But that doesn't mean EITC is a bad idea.

You might want to do more reading on 'negative income taxes'. It seems much better to me than thousands of overlapping and confusing entitlements.

[Hermod]

Back to the topic of the earned income credit, it is nothing but a patch to a FUBAR personal tax system in this state. A needed patch to some folks but still a temporary patch that can always be messed with. What makes little sense to me is that needed tax reform for business was executed and nothing is being done on the personal tax system Michigan uses. It's so bad that on the proposal to hike the sales tax last May even the Governor said "this wasn't my first choice" and the rest of the politicians said "this is crap legislation but it is the best we will get". How stupid can they be? Fix the personal tax system just like you did the business tax, idiots.

What would be your suggestions to "fix" the personal tax system [[I guess you mean the state income tax).

[ABetterDetroit]

What would be your suggestions to "fix" the personal tax system [[I guess you mean the state income tax).

Yes, I would change the flat individual income tax. I know it is sacred to some but I would argue that in a very large majority of the years since it was instituted in 1967 Michigan has failed to grow its economic base sufficiently in comparison to many other states. But what do I know, maybe the Feds will show up and build all our roads! They did have enough cash to bail out our largest corporation in the state and throw some serious coin at tearing down worthless dangerous abandoned homes. We really should send Thank you cards. Then there's charity. They build the nicest new public places for us like the river walk. And it goes with out saying that our largest city's bankruptcy would have been much worse without the donations from charities. Maybe we don't have to figure out our own problems at all because someone else will step in and handle them for us.

[Lowell]

Don't blame the business person. That is a shrewd move.

Blame the government. They have no business granting tax abatements whatsoever to anyone. They should be banned 100% everywhere for everyone, including non-profits.

Sad but true. It's completely legal. They are just taking advantage of the law that is there as much as a working stiff with kids claiming the EIC.

It does however beg the broader question of big money influence in creating those laws and corporate welfare agencies. The little guy has very few and far less powerful advocates. That explains why the outcry over the proposed ending of the film credit in the same bill is so much louder.