"So Long Cass Tech", Bobb says...

[PQZ]

The presumption [[again) is that the building will magically make money and be of value if only those corrupt morons would get out of the way and let smart people who want to sign online petitions "do something"

More than three years ago some of the CTAA membership ran around saying they wanted to save the building and the push for a demo was quietly shelved. The CTAA brought up the Artspace concept, which by then was well past the time that the David Whitney was off the table as an option.

There have been nothing but cricket chirps since then, despite the fact that the CTAA membership that was pushing for rehab are prominent in the preservation community. If anyone were to have links and connections and be able to find the developers to do it, it should have been these high profile members.

Yet, there has been no movement what so ever.

The DEGC stood by ready to provide what monetary assistance they could given its location.

Still not a peep or plan or drawing.

Interesting that when the rubber meets the road, the local preservation activists who get their names in the paper when they criticize the DEGC and administration seem unable to deliver when the ball is in their court.

Just sayin' - maybe its a lot harder than it looks from the outside.

[firstandten]

Yeah, better someone should answer to the Retarded Reverend Murray!

Trust me I'm not in favor of any kind of Board oversight, Its just that in this small example he is the king and we are his subjects.

[iheartthed]

Trust me I'm not in favor of any kind of Board oversight, Its just that in this small example he is the king and we are his subjects.

He's not completely without oversight. He was hired by the state. His boss is Granholm.

[firstandten]

He's not completely without oversight. He was hired by the state. His boss is Granholm.

True , I would just feel better if she wasn't a lame-duck.

[jcole]

True , I would just feel better if she wasn't a lame-duck.

Why? It's not like she's a Palin who's going to walk away before she's done with her job.

[EastSider]

True , I would just feel better if she wasn't a lame-duck.

Why? So that the Retarded Reverend and the other "disabled" grape-throwers could march to Lansing every two minutes? Do you really think Granholm would stand up to that mob of idiots and support true reform?

No, DPS would get "Arthur Blackwell-ed" like Highland Park.

Stop your hand-wringing look enough to realize that Mr. Bobb is NOT THE PROBLEM IN DETROIT! We should be falling over ourselves to let him know this city isn't populated entirely with fuckwad idiots who can't spell their names without help, that there are educated people who want our children to learn in school. He needs to know there is support for him in the community.

My fear is that he won't hear enough thanks from normal people, and Agnes Hitchcock and her idiot ilk will make him throw up his hands and walk away before the job is done.

If that were to happen, Detroit really and truly will be dead.

[Lorax]

Let's have a short lesson in common sense investing. Investors invest in things [[securities, properties, etc.) that they believe will earn them money. A fundamental characteristic of investing into some thing that an investor believes will net him/herself a profit is confidence in the future of the underlying organization -- in your case, the city of Detroit [[this is true unless you're shorting, which is a bit more technical of a discussion than we need right now since you already own). You clearly don't have confidence in the city of Detroit, so why do you continue to hold onto a bad investment? It's okay to take a loss on an investment. Investing is a gamble! It's stupid to hold onto an investment that you believe will continue to lose your money. Your comments demonstrate that you have a lack of confidence in the organization. Sell it, take the loss and move on with your life.

I really don't need lectures from you, common sense or otherwise. Nothing you said is untrue when it comes to investments other than real estate and stocks, and since this thread is about Cass Tech and not me, all I will say is it's an even bigger rule of investing to not divest yourself of property, especially if it's paid for, which is the case with me, in an economic downturn.

Ask me who owns the vast majority of retail buildings on Miami Beach, where I live, and the answer will be the same hasidic families which built them in the the 1930's & 40's.

Even when areas like Lincoln Road were a ghost town and nearly completely abandoned [[circa 1975-1990) no one really sold any properties. So rather than bailing, you should be happy someone is willing to sit this recession out and hold on to property.

[Tig3rzhark]

At least the students will get their own parking lot...when it is torn down.

[DetroitDad]

The real downside is yet to come. Bobb's antics are just a preview of the things to come in the recievership of the COD. And once Lame duck Jenny goes out of office, whoever the Governor is [[and it won't be Cherry) won't hesitate to pull the trigger if the Council and city workers don't get their stuff together.

How is this a bad thing?

[DetroitDad]

At least the students will get their own parking lot...when it is torn down.

I believe the plan is for baseball diamonds.

[iheartthed]

I really don't need lectures from you, common sense or otherwise. Nothing you said is untrue when it comes to investments other than real estate and stocks, and since this thread is about Cass Tech and not me, all I will say is it's an even bigger rule of investing to not divest yourself of property, especially if it's paid for, which is the case with me, in an economic downturn.

Ask me who owns the vast majority of retail buildings on Miami Beach, where I live, and the answer will be the same hasidic families which built them in the the 1930's & 40's.

Even when areas like Lincoln Road were a ghost town and nearly completely abandoned [[circa 1975-1990) no one really sold any properties. So rather than bailing, you should be happy someone is willing to sit this recession out and hold on to property.

So, in other words, you're still here because you don't really believe that Detroit will "never recover".

[Lorax]

So, in other words, you're still here because you don't really believe that Detroit will "never recover".

And what does "never recover" have to do with whether or not I choose to own, or continue to own property there?

If you're implying a double negative creates a positive, then I guess you have your answer!

[firstandten]

Why? So that the Retarded Reverend and the other "disabled" grape-throwers could march to Lansing every two minutes? Do you really think Granholm would stand up to that mob of idiots and support true reform?

No, DPS would get "Arthur Blackwell-ed" like Highland Park.

Stop your hand-wringing look enough to realize that Mr. Bobb is NOT THE PROBLEM IN DETROIT! We should be falling over ourselves to let him know this city isn't populated entirely with fuckwad idiots who can't spell their names without help, that there are educated people who want our children to learn in school. He needs to know there is support for him in the community.

My fear is that he won't hear enough thanks from normal people, and Agnes Hitchcock and her idiot ilk will make him throw up his hands and walk away before the job is done.

If that were to happen, Detroit really and truly will be dead.

I don't have any problem with what Mr. Bobb is doing on an educational basis. I welcome it and I have been one of the leading proponents of changing the governance structure on this forum.

Mr. Bobb has defined his job very broadly[[ looks like a state takeover to me) rather than narrowly.

Thats ok as well, to close a school is one thing but I think to tear down a structure of the magnitude of CT more voices need to be heard.

I look at this a little like Tiger stadium, look at the end of the day maybe it needs to come down but I would like to hear a few more voices before it happens. Tiger stadium did at least get a hearing from the community, some trial balloons were put out there , nothing panned out so its coming down. I would at least like for CT to get the same kind of hearing.

[Rocko]

They should secure the building so things aren't falling from the ceilings, fix holes in the floors, and repair the windows. Then, they should tie old Cass Tech into classes at new Cass Tech, allowing students to go over to the old school to practice their technical skills, doing the work themselves. Sort of like a real life labratory. By the time they get anyplace close to a modern/repaired structure, maybe someone will have figured out what to do with it.

[R8RBOB]

They should secure the building so things aren't falling from the ceilings, fix holes in the floors, and repair the windows. Then, they should tie old Cass Tech into classes at new Cass Tech, allowing students to go over to the old school to practice their technical skills, doing the work themselves. Sort of like a real life labratory. By the time they get anyplace close to a modern/repaired structure, maybe someone will have figured out what to do with it.

I'm sorry but old Cass Tech should have been torn down. If the old Cass Tech building is such an historic building then they should have done to Cass Tech that they did to Central when they rehab Central or Northern before they closed it. The supporters of Cass Tech wanted a new building. Being one of the magnet schools they wanted a building with bells and whistles. Damn the history of the old building so they got they brand-new building but then someone said, "oh no, we can't tear down old Cass Tech. It has history." You can't have it both ways. We saw this same scenario with Comerica Park/Tiger Stadium. You can't build new shit and expect to maintain old shit. It is the reason we get rid of things old.

[Lorax]

I'm sorry but old Cass Tech should have been torn down. If the old Cass Tech building is such an historic building then they should have done to Cass Tech that they did to Central when they rehab Central or Northern before they closed it. The supporters of Cass Tech wanted a new building. Being one of the magnet schools they wanted a building with bells and whistles. Damn the history of the old building so they got they brand-new building but then someone said, "oh no, we can't tear down old Cass Tech. It has history." You can't have it both ways. We saw this same scenario with Comerica Park/Tiger Stadium. You can't build new shit and expect to maintain old shit. It is the reason we get rid of things old.

Well, with your metric, I guess we should vote to demo all vacant, or nearly vacant buildings in Detroit, which would include the Fisher, Guardian, One Woodward, Masonic Temple, Stott Tower, Penobscot Building, Book Tower, United Artists, 1001 Woodward, Broderick Tower, Lee Plaza, Buhl Building, People's State Bank Building, MCS- did I leave anything out?

[aoakley]

How about for once leaving 1 huge old building alone for a little while longer and TCB with some demolition of derelict properties in the neighborhoods? It makes everything look so bad and it sends the message of "we don't care". I hate this city.

[McIPor]

[quote=PQZ;53014]

The presumption [[again) is that the building will magically make money and be of value if only those corrupt morons would get out of the way and let smart people who want to sign online petitions "do something"

More than three years ago some of the CTAA membership ran around saying they wanted to save the building and the push for a demo was quietly shelved. The CTAA brought up the Artspace concept, which by then was well past the time that the David Whitney was off the table as an option.

There have been nothing but cricket chirps since then, despite the fact that the CTAA membership that was pushing for rehab are prominent in the preservation community. If anyone were to have links and connections and be able to find the developers to do it, it should have been these high profile members.

Yet, there has been no movement what so ever.

The DEGC stood by ready to provide what monetary assistance they could given its location.

Still not a peep or plan or drawing.

You are right, the "Artspace Concept" was brought up, but Artspace inc [[now Place), a non-profit developer for the Arts was not hired to develop the project for the city. That is something a DEGC, DDA or Detroit Ren would do in this case. The group looking at it mistakenly thought it could be developed without Artspace locally. It could still be done and would fit nicely into the Creative Corridor concept of detroit Renaissance.

I spoke with the head of Place [[formerly Artspace) who said they had been doing new builds for awhile because existing historic buildings had been bought up by private developers in most cities they had been working in. With the historic tax credits, HUD financing and housing fund from Kresge, Ford etc, this could work with a non profit developer and be a great asset for the creative community of Detroit. Musicians, Artists, performance groups, any number of non profit groups like VSA Arts, Mosaic youth, could also be housed there.

Other interesting note. As far as LEED and sustainability, it takes 60 years to equal the energy lost from demolition and building new vs adaptive re-use of an existing structure like Cass Tech. Michigan wanting to be Green technology center should consider this before demolishing anything.

Check out: http://www.placeonline.us/

[R8RBOB]

Well, with your metric, I guess we should vote to demo all vacant, or nearly vacant buildings in Detroit, which would include the Fisher, Guardian, One Woodward, Masonic Temple, Stott Tower, Penobscot Building, Book Tower, United Artists, 1001 Woodward, Broderick Tower, Lee Plaza, Buhl Building, People's State Bank Building, MCS- did I leave anything out?

Ok, here goes:

Every building you listed currently has no building to replace it. I think you are confusing the matter at hand. Cass Technical High School wanted a new building. Because they are a magnet school, they got their new building but they had no plans on what to do with the old building. I'm sure someone had plans to knock it down but there is always some bleeding heart who believes that they can do something with something old.

You are attempting to label me as one of those people who would destroy history. That is not true. I love old buildings. I wish Detroit would have preserve its buildings like Chicago but I'm a realist. It cost money to preserve and Detroit don't have people with deep pockets coming in to preserve anything in this city. I stand by my comment that the old Cass Tech should be torn down because they got a new school building and they discarded the history of the building when doing so. DPS could have and should have rehab the building if it meant so much in regards to history.

So to answer your comment, if all those building you listed had replacments built from the ground up and there was no idea what do with them and they were to stay standing and empty like most buildings in Detroit then yes I would say tear them down. Nothing was worse than to see Tiger Stadium go into decay for 9 years.

[Patrick]

They should secure the building so things aren't falling from the ceilings, fix holes in the floors, and repair the windows

These things cost money. DPS has little or no money.

[Russix]

R8RBOB,

After reviewing the city's and DPS finances, do you think it was wise to build a new Cass Tech? Would it really have cost more to fix old Cass Tech? Could DPS and the city have gotten by with just minor renovation on old Cass Tech and saved their money? I personally believe new Cass Tech was an exuberant political device tailored by Kwame that the city really could not afford. I have one suggestion for the buildings reuse: Enlarge the Cass Tech program and accept students from other districts while simultaneously creating the first school in a regional educational authority.

[R8RBOB]

Quote:They should secure the building so things aren't falling from the ceilings, fix holes in the floors, and repair the windows

These things cost money. DPS has little or no money.

Don't forget about the buildings that have these same ailments and still in use. Emerson Middle School comes to mind.

[R8RBOB]

R8RBOB,

After reviewing the city's and DPS finances, do you think it was wise to build a new Cass Tech? Would it really have cost more to fix old Cass Tech? Could DPS and the city have gotten by with just minor renovation on old Cass Tech and saved their money? I personally believe new Cass Tech was an exuberant political device tailored by Kwame that the city really could not afford. I have one suggestion for the buildings reuse: Enlarge the Cass Tech program and accept students from other districts while simultaneously creating the first school in a regional educational authority.

Okay, Russix, the first thing you have to do is stop using city. The city of Detroit have no involvement with DPS or their finances.

There are a number of old schools buildings in Detroit and the old Cass Tech bldg. is one of them. You could not do any minor renovations on the building. It would have to be a major renovation which would have costs DPS hundreds of millions. The cheap route was to build a new school. I agree. If it cost too much to renovate then you have start anew. As for placing blame on Kwame, I don't know about that because they were building Renaissance at the same time as they were building CT.

As for reusing the building to expand Cass Tech, well DPS is broke and it basically brings them back full circle to the question they asked years ago: should we renovate the building or build a new one. Only difference is that it would cost more than it did years ago.

[royce]

DPS has, in good faith, been very patient with their plans to delay tearing down old Cass Tech. Ndavies gave an accurate history of the events that have occurred since the debate began on what to do with the old Cass Tech [[CT). DPS has given an adequate amount of time for someone, or some organization to do something with the building if they wanted to. Well, if any one has noticed, no one has come forward to do anything with the building. During the passed year the building has definitely been vanalized, but for the first three or four years after its closing, old Cass Tech was relatively secured by DPS.

As many are aware, DPS is strapped for cash and doesn't have the luxury of continuing to spend money mothballing old CT while waiting to see if someone is going to redevelop it. The fact is if someone really wanted to do something with the school, they would have come forward by now. If this "Artist Place" wanted to do something by now, they would have come forward by now with their plans. Unlike the city, DPS has not prevented anyone, with a reasonable development plan, from buying the property and putting it to adaptive use.

The fact is no one has come up with a plan, backed by sufficient money, to do anything with the building. For some of you to suggest that this person or that person or this organization or that organization would be interested in redeveloping the building are forgetting the simple truth: they would have come forward by now. I'm sure those in development circles have heard people talk about old CT being vacant. Also, if folks are that interested in rehabbing old schools, they would have been actively looking for or asking about available school buildings that were vacant. They have had years to find out about old CT. Keeping it standing for an indefinite amount of time for others to become aware of its existence is not going to change anything, especially in this economy. Folks, it's time to say good-bye to old CT, period.

[HazenPingree]

These things cost money. DPS has little or no money.

Demo costs money too. With the recent demolitions, I believe that, because of nostalgia, Cass Tech is the most viable abandoned building in Detroit.