"So Long Cass Tech", Bobb says...

[daddeeo]

Thanks for the laughs guys.
If Tiger Stadium can't be saved, old Cass Tech doesn't stand a chance. The city and DPS don't have the resources to "carry" that property any more.
Selling it to someone for $1 won't do any good if they don't have the "stuff" to fix it up.
All we need is another crumbling building next to another school.
Bobb isn't sugar coating anything and it's about time.

[Detroitnerd]

Reminds me of the way some surgeons "save" a patient that has cancer. Cut one thing off, another thing off, cut that out, pull this out, and just keep doing one [[very profitable) operation after another. ...

[Lorax]

My apologies to ThaFuzz.

Why would you continue to sit on what you think is a bad investment? Are you a masochist? If you truly think, as you said, that Detroit will never recover then why not take your money and walk? Then save the rest of us the agony of having to read [[or scroll past) your asinine opinions. Sell it and go on with your life! Take the shit or get off the pot!

::note to self, don't accept any investment tips from Lorax since he invests in things he doesn't believe in::

Since you're a bigger booster of Detroit than I'll ever be, why don't you pony up the cash- I'll sell you the place at what I have in it, no profit, and it would be worth less than that figure by 50%. So you're saying I should walk away from an investment that because of economic circumstances is worth 50% less than I have in it.

Great investment advice, perhaps you should work for Goldman Sachs, or maybe you already do.

[Gistok]

Cass tech was scheduled to be demolished when the new cass tech opened. The Cass Tech Alumni and others persuaded the city to leave it up to be rehabbed. All the people who screamed to rehab this building disappeared shortly after the the building was "Saved". Nobody came forward to rehab it. It should have been torn down in the first place. Not left to continue to rot.

The original building was far more expensive to rehab than to just build new, hence it was not rehabbed it the first place. Anyone who thinks it's cheaper to rehab a building that old than it is to tear it down and build new is delusional.

Yes, that's the same Kool-Aid that GM told everyone when they decided to move to the RenCen... that it was too expensive to rehab the old one... and guess what... some delusional company came along and did just that [[I'm sure for a "fraction" of the $ 1/2 billion that GM spent on rehabbing the RenCen) and leased it too the state for their world class office building.

[davewindsor]

Thanks for the laughs guys.
If Tiger Stadium can't be saved, old Cass Tech doesn't stand a chance. The city and DPS don't have the resources to "carry" that property any more.
Selling it to someone for $1 won't do any good if they don't have the "stuff" to fix it up.
All we need is another crumbling building next to another school.
Bobb isn't sugar coating anything and it's about time.

They don't need the stuff to fix it up, just preserve it until the loft market improves. $1 and I'll even board up the broken windows and torch down some of the bad spots on the roof before winter hits.

[McIPor]

Thats a shame. It's a building with a lot of history and a number of well known alumni. Their was a plan to redevelop it with Artspace Projects inc. [[now place) out of Minneapolis before it closed. Keep the old building, demolish the addition. Classrooms would make great artists lofts with the courtyard and city views and huge windows. Great public spaces including auditoreums, gym, pools would be great amenities, along with a gallery.

Artspace was a non profit developer for the arts and had the numbers working using tax credits and every other source they typically cobble together to make things work. Unfortunately, the GDP at the time had them focus on using the David Whitney building instead. That building had a funding gap of $10 million [[price the owners wanted for it), and nothing happened. If the schoolboard was willing to give it away, it could still be done. Broken windows get replaced anyway.

Wouldn't an Artscenter with artists lofts, performance spaces for groups like Mosaic youth, galleries and community spaces be a great re-use rather then another empty lot? It's in the so called "Creative Corridor" .

http://www.placeonline.us/
Chris Velasco

[ghettopalmetto]

If the demolish to decision Cass Tech is economic, that's fine. Just have numbers on-hand to back it up. Just don't call it "dangerous" unless you have an objective basis for doing so.

Why does it seem that Detroit is the only place using stimulus money to destroy things instead of build them? I think the federal taxpayers have a right to know that their money is being abused.

[iheartthed]

Since you're a bigger booster of Detroit than I'll ever be, why don't you pony up the cash- I'll sell you the place at what I have in it, no profit, and it would be worth less than that figure by 50%. So you're saying I should walk away from an investment that because of economic circumstances is worth 50% less than I have in it.

Great investment advice, perhaps you should work for Goldman Sachs, or maybe you already do.

Let's have a short lesson in common sense investing. Investors invest in things [[securities, properties, etc.) that they believe will earn them money. A fundamental characteristic of investing into some thing that an investor believes will net him/herself a profit is confidence in the future of the underlying organization -- in your case, the city of Detroit [[this is true unless you're shorting, which is a bit more technical of a discussion than we need right now since you already own). You clearly don't have confidence in the city of Detroit, so why do you continue to hold onto a bad investment? It's okay to take a loss on an investment. Investing is a gamble! It's stupid to hold onto an investment that you believe will continue to lose your money. Your comments demonstrate that you have a lack of confidence in the organization. Sell it, take the loss and move on with your life.

[digitalvision]

I'm going to debate you on that one Gistok.

The needs of GM and the needs of the State of Michigan are very different. I still think lots of Cadillac Place does not have air conditioning. At least when I was in the lobby last it didn't. It's OK for a government to get away with that, but for corporations, that's a no-go. Not to mention the specialty networks, etc. the RenCen provided a much better infrastructure [[comparably) to "rehab" - they viewed it as a rehab. It was antiquated to say the least for what a modern corporation needs.

Cadillac Place was a backroom deal for the State to move in there so it wouldn't go vacant. That was handed on a platter, like most of the development in the city from Illitches' demo money to the Atheneum Hotel to Zaccaro's. The vast majority of development in the city is propped with direct government dollars, it is nowhere near a free market and most of the projects we hail would be shuttered without it. There is almost zero free market interest or market in investing the city of Detroit in a large scale, except at the very bottom of the price range [[5%, 10%, 15% of value).

This is due in part to the government picking winners constantly - most entrepreneurs want nothing to do with that sort of system.

[GREENTROIT]

Why does it seem that Detroit is the only place using stimulus money to destroy things instead of build them? I think the federal taxpayers have a right to know that their money is being abused.

This is a great point.

[ndavies]

This is a great point.

No it's not, it's bullshit.

do this search.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...s&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

Many other cities and states are using it for demo.

[GREENTROIT]

No it's not, it's bullshit.

Yeah, I'm gonna disagree with you.

A lot of places are using money for development, do this search:

http://www.google.com/search?q=feder...&ned=us&tab=nw

[Detroitnerd]

Yeah. Use the funds to demolish buildings in Detroit. But, in the suburbs, use it to freakin' EXPAND HALL ROAD?

[ghettopalmetto]

No it's not, it's bullshit.

do this search.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...s&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

Many other cities and states are using it for demo.

Let's look at the top few hits from that search, shall we:

1. Oak Ridge National Laboratory is a decommissioned federal property.

2. Flint is in the midst of a "right-sizing" program to reduce the land area required to be serviced by city services, and reduce the long-term operating costs of the city.

3. National parks fall under federal jurisdiction.

4. Savannah's Hitch Village housing project is in the midst of a redevelopment similar to what other cities have been doing with public housing in the past decade.


Detroit Public Schools, on the other hand, is using the money to permanently demolish a building, with no redevelopment component, simply because they executed a poorly-thought-out project. Other cities might be conducting demolition activities, but it's in the context of some sort of long-term gainm, financial or otherwise. Detroit is demolishing shit just because they can, and they can get the federal government to pay for it.

[ndavies]

Dig a little deeper
NYC 3.4 million for emergency Demo
http://newyork.realestaterama.com/20...hs-ID0606.html

Columbus city center $32 million
http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live...I.html?sid=101

Dover Knolls NY
20 million for 11 buildings
http://growsmartdover.org/the-town-o...mulus-dollars/

[gnome]

Not to disrail your tit-for-tat, but in the same breath Bobb talked about building a couple of new high schools and a few middle schools.

[buildingsofdetroit]

Could be another piece in Ilitch's hockey arena district.
Too bad it couldn't be incorporated like the old Hudson's warehouse was into Ford Field.
One thing that does drive me nuts is these people who say, "It needs to come down. Just look at all those broken windows." Windows can be replaced. The only reason they haven't been replaced is because without a plan for the building, they'll just get broken again. Broken windows aren't a reason for demo. Now, structural damage caused by water that got in through broken windows, that I could buy.

[ghettopalmetto]

Ndavies,

Let's just say I've developed a VERY healthy dose of skepticism when it comes to Detroit and its "reasons" for demolishing buildings. So yes, my opinion is probably colored. But given the tremendous successes of the "Demolition-on-Spec Redevelopment Plan" in the past decade-or-so, this is not something I'm willing to celebrate.

[R8RBOB]

Could be another piece in Ilitch's hockey arena district.
Too bad it couldn't be incorporated like the old Hudson's warehouse was into Ford Field.
One thing that does drive me nuts is these people who say, "It needs to come down. Just look at all those broken windows." Windows can be replaced. The only reason they haven't been replaced is because without a plan for the building, they'll just get broken again. Broken windows aren't a reason for demo. Now, structural damage caused by water that got in through broken windows, that I could buy.

If the old Cass Tech was one of these buildings that should be deemed a historic building then DPS should have used the money to restore the building to its greatness. Instead, a bookkeeper and an econonist told them that it would be cheaper to build a school, so they did. The mistake was building the new building next to the old building and not knocking down the old building.

[firstandten]

Everybody is happy that Mr. Bobb is doing what he's doing and for the most part I agree, now here's where the rubber meets the road. Mr. Bobb took a very broad meaning to his role, he has virtually no oversight and now he wants to tear down CT.

You know what bye, bye CT ain't nothing you can do to stop it because its within his powers.

regardless to how you feel about the old CT doesn't this bother you just a little bit?

Just to remind people that there can be a downside when your only oversight is from a lame-duck governor.

[iheartthed]

Could be another piece in Ilitch's hockey arena district.

I don't think this property would play any role in a new hockey arena since it's sandwiched between a brand new school building and the freeway.

[Stosh]

Everybody is happy that Mr. Bobb is doing what he's doing and for the most part I agree, now here's where the rubber meets the road. Mr. Bobb took a very broad meaning to his role, he has virtually no oversight and now he wants to tear down CT.

You know what bye, bye CT ain't nothing you can do to stop it because its within his powers.

regardless to how you feel about the old CT doesn't this bother you just a little bit?

Just to remind people that there can be a downside when your only oversight is from a lame-duck governor.

The real downside is yet to come. Bobb's antics are just a preview of the things to come in the recievership of the COD. And once Lame duck Jenny goes out of office, whoever the Governor is [[and it won't be Cherry) won't hesitate to pull the trigger if the Council and city workers don't get their stuff together.

[Det_ard]

The real downside is yet to come. Bobb's antics are just a preview of the things to come in the recievership of the COD. And once Lame duck Jenny goes out of office, whoever the Governor is [[and it won't be Cherry) won't hesitate to pull the trigger if the Council and city workers don't get their stuff together.

A hard-nosed emergency financial manager with sweeping powers is exactly what Detroit's needed for years. That guy will need the EPU that Kwame tooled around with. Maybe we'll luck out and the next Governor will have some balls.

[buildingsofdetroit]

I don't think this property would play any role in a new hockey arena since it's sandwiched between a brand new school building and the freeway.

I was thinking another Ilitch parking lot.

[EastSider]

Everybody is happy that Mr. Bobb is doing what he's doing and for the most part I agree, now here's where the rubber meets the road. Mr. Bobb took a very broad meaning to his role, he has virtually no oversight and now he wants to tear down CT.

You know what bye, bye CT ain't nothing you can do to stop it because its within his powers.

regardless to how you feel about the old CT doesn't this bother you just a little bit?

Just to remind people that there can be a downside when your only oversight is from a lame-duck governor.

Yeah, better someone should answer to the Retarded Reverend Murray!